View Poll Results: Have you flooded your Renesis?
YES
1,350
54.88%
NO
1,110
45.12%
Voters: 2460. You may not vote on this poll
Engine Flooding Info/Questions
09-29-2011, 11:56 AM
#2101
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hi guys
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
My money is on either misfire or oxygen sensor -- as those are the only CELs I've had!
09-30-2011, 02:24 AM
#2102
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hi guys
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
09-30-2011, 07:10 AM
#2103
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hi guys
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
i have been reading all the posts and none of them really answer what i was looking for,
i have recently flooded my car, finally got it going again after following instructions from this site. However since then my engine light came on, (was flashing at first but now it just stays on) is this common after the engine has flooded? Since flooding the car also needs to be cranked for longer to get it going, is this my starter motor on its way out?
Also it may be my paranoia but the car seems sluggish and the engine is sounding a little deeper then what it was before.
Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks
09-30-2011, 07:15 AM
#2104
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Pretty sure I've posted this in the thread, probably more than once.
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/new-potential-owners-start-here-202454/
Yes. You had a flood, and it was because of a failing ignition system. This ignition failure was causing misfires (flashing CE.L) but you failed to take care of it and now it's caused a solid CEL from the engine trying to tell you "YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF!"
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/new-potential-owners-start-here-202454/
Flooding:
Flooding is only a concern if you have a weak ignition system. The problem is, your ignition system usually fails very slowly, so it is a gradual decline. The alert and responsible owner will detect the drop in mileage, the drop in power, the rougher idle, the occasional misfire, and replace their coils, plugs, and wires before it gets bad enough where there is a chance at flooding.
Every single flood I have seen reported for quite a while ended up coming down to one of these failing: Battery, Starter, Coil(s), Plug Wire(s), Plug(s). But by then, they also generally have a fried cat that needs to get replaced as well, and possibly an O2 sensor or two. Stay on top of the maintenance (long term included!) and you will wonder what all the fuss was about. Coils ($160 for all 4, 20 minute swap), plugs ($80 for all 4, 10 minute swap), and wires ($60, 2 minute swap), should be replaced every 30,000 miles, possibly sooner if you detect something starting to fail, since people have had them fail as early as 8,000 miles or 15,000 miles, though that's rare.
You don't want to shut off while it's cold simply because when the engine is cold, the ECU dumps more fuel into engine to help it warm up, and it leans back once the engine is warm. This extra fuel can make it harder to start an ignition, which a healthy ignition system is perfectly capable of overcoming. Weaken the ignition with failing plugs, coils, wires, alternator, starter, or battery, and you have a flood on your hands, and all the associated problems from that.
Flooding is only a concern if you have a weak ignition system. The problem is, your ignition system usually fails very slowly, so it is a gradual decline. The alert and responsible owner will detect the drop in mileage, the drop in power, the rougher idle, the occasional misfire, and replace their coils, plugs, and wires before it gets bad enough where there is a chance at flooding.
Every single flood I have seen reported for quite a while ended up coming down to one of these failing: Battery, Starter, Coil(s), Plug Wire(s), Plug(s). But by then, they also generally have a fried cat that needs to get replaced as well, and possibly an O2 sensor or two. Stay on top of the maintenance (long term included!) and you will wonder what all the fuss was about. Coils ($160 for all 4, 20 minute swap), plugs ($80 for all 4, 10 minute swap), and wires ($60, 2 minute swap), should be replaced every 30,000 miles, possibly sooner if you detect something starting to fail, since people have had them fail as early as 8,000 miles or 15,000 miles, though that's rare.
You don't want to shut off while it's cold simply because when the engine is cold, the ECU dumps more fuel into engine to help it warm up, and it leans back once the engine is warm. This extra fuel can make it harder to start an ignition, which a healthy ignition system is perfectly capable of overcoming. Weaken the ignition with failing plugs, coils, wires, alternator, starter, or battery, and you have a flood on your hands, and all the associated problems from that.
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
09-30-2011, 08:05 AM
#2105
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Pretty sure I've posted this in the thread, probably more than once.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454
Yes. You had a flood, and it was because of a failing ignition system. This ignition failure was causing misfires (flashing CE.L) but you failed to take care of it and now it's caused a solid CEL from the engine trying to tell you "YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF!"
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454
Yes. You had a flood, and it was because of a failing ignition system. This ignition failure was causing misfires (flashing CE.L) but you failed to take care of it and now it's caused a solid CEL from the engine trying to tell you "YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF!"
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
09-30-2011, 09:03 AM
#2106
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RX8 Flooding
The RX8 flooding issue is a real problem and Mazda has been aware of it for some time. I was on this forum last year, trying to get info on the de-flooding procedure (after too many tows to count) and was attacked by haters for daring to speak negatively about the RX8. I also loved my car, but reliability was a must for me. Mazda ended up buying back my vehicle, as well as several others that contacted me after the initial posts. Some were full buy-backs and some reached cash settlements. For those of you that don't have a problem, GREAT, but for those of us that do/did, it is a real problem that we did not bargain for when purchasing our cars. I am happy that Mazda is stepping up and doing the right thing, but I can't help wondering how many RX8 owners gave up on the process and sold them to others that are now experiencing the same problems. Haters, don't bother..... been there... done that....
09-30-2011, 09:42 AM
#2107
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I don't intend this as "hate", so if you take it that way, that's entirely on you.
Everything I posted above is entirely accurate. Flooding with healthy ignition is something that DID happen at one point in the past with one of the original engine ECU flashes. Any ECU in late 2005 or later, or any ECU before late 2005 that was updated WILL NOT flood if the ignition, battery, and starter are healthy (aside from intentionally dumping fluids into the engine while it's turned off).
I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't find the root cause for it. I am 100% sure it wasn't flooding at the factory, the boat, the dealer, and everywhere else in between. Something failed on your car, and it was never diagnosed properly and/or repaired.
Everything I posted above is entirely accurate. Flooding with healthy ignition is something that DID happen at one point in the past with one of the original engine ECU flashes. Any ECU in late 2005 or later, or any ECU before late 2005 that was updated WILL NOT flood if the ignition, battery, and starter are healthy (aside from intentionally dumping fluids into the engine while it's turned off).
I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't find the root cause for it. I am 100% sure it wasn't flooding at the factory, the boat, the dealer, and everywhere else in between. Something failed on your car, and it was never diagnosed properly and/or repaired.
09-30-2011, 06:01 PM
#2108
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I don't intend this as "hate", so if you take it that way, that's entirely on you.
Everything I posted above is entirely accurate. Flooding with healthy ignition is something that DID happen at one point in the past with one of the original engine ECU flashes. Any ECU in late 2005 or later, or any ECU before late 2005 that was updated WILL NOT flood if the ignition, battery, and starter are healthy (aside from intentionally dumping fluids into the engine while it's turned off).
I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't find the root cause for it. I am 100% sure it wasn't flooding at the factory, the boat, the dealer, and everywhere else in between. Something failed on your car, and it was never diagnosed properly and/or repaired.
Everything I posted above is entirely accurate. Flooding with healthy ignition is something that DID happen at one point in the past with one of the original engine ECU flashes. Any ECU in late 2005 or later, or any ECU before late 2005 that was updated WILL NOT flood if the ignition, battery, and starter are healthy (aside from intentionally dumping fluids into the engine while it's turned off).
I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't find the root cause for it. I am 100% sure it wasn't flooding at the factory, the boat, the dealer, and everywhere else in between. Something failed on your car, and it was never diagnosed properly and/or repaired.
10-01-2011, 08:58 AM
#2109
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Pretty sure I've posted this in the thread, probably more than once.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454
Yes. You had a flood, and it was because of a failing ignition system. This ignition failure was causing misfires (flashing CE.L) but you failed to take care of it and now it's caused a solid CEL from the engine trying to tell you "YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF!"
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454
Yes. You had a flood, and it was because of a failing ignition system. This ignition failure was causing misfires (flashing CE.L) but you failed to take care of it and now it's caused a solid CEL from the engine trying to tell you "YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF!"
Buy everything from Advance online and the current price is about $182 with free shipping and including a 15% discount. That is coils, plugs, and wires.
Stop ignoring it. Your cat is probably already failing too at this point.
10-01-2011, 08:33 PM
#2112
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10-01-2011, 09:42 PM
#2113
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So flooding wasn't because you didn't know what you were doing, but because of valet parkers and shops not familiar with rotaries. Yeah - that's an issue. Just met a former RX-7 owner who loved his car but kept flooding it when he had to move it to let housemates in and out of the driveway.
I'm fortunate that I never do valet parking (just don't travel in those circles), don't need to shuffle cars in my driveway, and my local Mazda dealer is very good for service. This reminds me, though, that I need to print that "This is a rotary - dont' turn off cold" placard that Expo1 posted, just in case I wind up stuck with someone else parking my 8.
Ken
10-03-2011, 03:06 AM
#2115
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I've done it this way, but pulling the fuse. It still took about half an hour, and smoke coming off the starter motor. Any comments?
10-03-2011, 06:10 AM
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No the the fuel pump switch is to prevent flooding ever again. A new operating procedure has to be learned. You would actually drive the car with the fuel pump switch. To start the car the fuel pump switch is off. The engine cranks and while it is you flip the fuel pump on. Now when you stop the engine, no matter how long or short you run it, doesn''t matter, turn the engine off first with the fuel pump switch. When the engine dies turn the key off. Side benifit to this is nobody can ever drive the car away. I know people that drove there car for years this way and the engine never flooded. We first used this solution in the '84,'85 gslse cars. When the 2nd gens came out we did the same fix. It can't possibly flood with this method. I'd be happy to talk to anybody about this if they want to call me.
10-04-2011, 07:33 AM
#2117
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Skip - this is very interesting. I think it's easier to just avoid short run times (eg a couple of minutes) , but if they happen, rev to 6,000 for about 10 seconds before turning off. Has anyone else tried the fuel switch method?
10-04-2011, 09:50 AM
#2118
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Mazda has partly implemented Skip's method. With the latest flashes, the fuel pump does not start until after the engine has cranked a couple of times. You still turn it off with the ignition switch.
I remember working on some WW II vintage aircraft engines where shutdown was done by going full lean, rather than turning the magnetos off, so that part has been sort of done before, too.
Ken
10-04-2011, 05:44 PM
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Whatever works for ya. I'm just telling about a way I did it for 30 years at my shop. I lived in a very cold long winter area. This method never failed. The times during the winter when the sun was out and customers would pull there car outside to wash it and then put it away, it would always flood. So all my customers had the fuel pump switch. I installed the switch in cars from '84- '85 till the 3rd gens came out. That's a speed density system fuel injection. So its harder to flood. The mass air flow cars have the problem.
10-04-2011, 08:47 PM
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Right on my club friend. Was never a negivtive. I have to mention that at my shop I had many female RX owners. Beside being very cool it was a challenge to have them own the car and not have a restart problem. If you were cool enough to buy one why does it flood when I don't feel like I did anything wrong. My female customers did a lot of errands. The bank, the grocery store, clearners, fast food,etc. So flooding was not an option. You really can't lose with a fuel pump switch.
Love the club feed back. Great club, keep the faith people.
Love the club feed back. Great club, keep the faith people.
10-05-2011, 06:19 AM
#2123
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I don't think I'd rev a cold engine to 6000 rpm. Mazda's rev procedure is done after you let the engine warm by idling, not on a cold engine.
Mazda has partly implemented Skip's method. With the latest flashes, the fuel pump does not start until after the engine has cranked a couple of times. You still turn it off with the ignition switch.
I remember working on some WW II vintage aircraft engines where shutdown was done by going full lean, rather than turning the magnetos off, so that part has been sort of done before, too.
Ken
Mazda has partly implemented Skip's method. With the latest flashes, the fuel pump does not start until after the engine has cranked a couple of times. You still turn it off with the ignition switch.
I remember working on some WW II vintage aircraft engines where shutdown was done by going full lean, rather than turning the magnetos off, so that part has been sort of done before, too.
Ken
11-10-2011, 11:48 AM
#2125
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I don't understand what you are asking? (language barrier I expect)
1) Are you having trouble starting, but it starts? Or is it not starting at all?
2) What do you mean by "overhauled"? To me, that means an engine rebuild.
3) MAF data (Mass air flow sensor) is not used in starting the engine. I typed up this list in a different thread, and it shows all the components of starting where something can fail:
1) Are you having trouble starting, but it starts? Or is it not starting at all?
2) What do you mean by "overhauled"? To me, that means an engine rebuild.
3) MAF data (Mass air flow sensor) is not used in starting the engine. I typed up this list in a different thread, and it shows all the components of starting where something can fail:
There are alot of different ways of having a "no start" and most of them have different symptoms, different points the "starting" process stops at.
The process is:
1: Key in
2: Clutch in
3: clutch sensor closes the circuit allowing start
4: Key to start
5: Starting relay opens, providing power to the starter from the battery
6: Battery power cranks over the starter motor
7: Starter motor spins the engine through the flywheel
8: Ignition opens
9: Coils get power, begin generating spark current
10: Wires transmit the current to the plugs
11: Plugs begin to spark
12: Fuel pump begins pumping
13: Engine standard compression and combustion should occur
It is possible for a no-start condition to be due to a failure at any one of the above points.
How far are you getting?
The process is:
1: Key in
2: Clutch in
3: clutch sensor closes the circuit allowing start
4: Key to start
5: Starting relay opens, providing power to the starter from the battery
6: Battery power cranks over the starter motor
7: Starter motor spins the engine through the flywheel
8: Ignition opens
9: Coils get power, begin generating spark current
10: Wires transmit the current to the plugs
11: Plugs begin to spark
12: Fuel pump begins pumping
13: Engine standard compression and combustion should occur
It is possible for a no-start condition to be due to a failure at any one of the above points.
How far are you getting?