Joose

Hey guys,

I have a 2006 RX8 with 89K miles.

Woke up Monday morning and my car would not start. Had it towed to the dealership. Dealership said it was flooded and two of the spark plugs were bad.

I had the dealership replace all 4 spark plugs and then asked them to perform a compression test.

The test was performed at 252 RPM and the results were normalized to 250 RPM.

Here are the results in kPa:

Rotor 1
Port 1 - 537.21
Port 2 - 549.21
Port 3 - 566.21

Rotor 2
Port 1 - 541.21
Port 2 - 545.21
Port 3 - 544.21

I found the page from the service manual that states the results should be ~830 kPa for a well functioning engine and that the minimum acceptable value is ~680 kPa.

Even though my results fall far enough below the minimum acceptable value to even be considered borderline, Mazda of North America is refusing to replace the engine under warranty stating that it hasn't failed enough. The dealership has been more than helpful and it seems my issue is with Mazda of North America, not my dealership.

I was just curious to see if you guys thought it was worth appealing with Mazda or what you guys would recommend as the best course of action to take. Thanks!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

What was the reason for the denial?

Joose

RIWWP,

Thanks for your response. The dealership said that because the car was not experiencing a loss of power, then there is no problem.

The dealership does not have a dyno so any claim of no loss of power would have been based on a service tech's observation while test driving it.

Thanks!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Flooding, poor warm starts, poor starting, loss of power are all low compression signs. I'm sure if it floods a few more times and you complain about the lack of power and they will get the hint

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

This is not MNAO giving you problems, this is the dealer giving you problems. The dealer submits the warranty claim to MNAO with test results. Because you didn't "complain about a lack of power", the dealer doesn't want to take the time and trouble to submit the paperwork.

Complaining about a lack of power is not a pre-requisite of warranty coverage, having an engine failure IS (which you clearly do). A dyno isn't required or even helpful (old coils, plugs, and wires can drop 30whp on a healthy engine), just a compression test. Some dealers insist on a BARO test as well, which is basically measuring the amount of vacuum that the engine can pull. It's basically the flip side of the compression coin.


I wouldn't recommend hassling the dealership, as they can make it quite a bit harder for you, but you should be more insistent. You can even print out the parts of the service manual which are relevant and bring them in.

Joose

RIWWP,

That is interesting. This is what the dealership told me. They performed the compression test and then contacted MNAO, sending them the results of the test. MNAO then replied that the results were borderline based on some number they have which I guess differs from what is in the service manual and since I did not complain about a lack of power than they would not warranty it.

The dealership seemed more than willing to replace the engine, the mechanic even stated that he would love to do it as Mazda pays them extra for replacing an engine under warranty.

Not saying that you are incorrect or anything, just what was relayed to me from the dealership. I agree with you that I should be more insistent. In regards to dannobre's post, the dealership did state that if it flooded again they would be able to push MNAO harder on the issue.

I am going to give the national Mazda customer care line a call and see what they say. I appreciate all the advice, thanks guys.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Dealers DO make money on the replacements, but it can also be quite a hassle for them. I tend to take anything a dealer tells someone with a rather large block of salt though, since I've seen so many stories from people where dealers are just feeding them lines. I've dealt with it myself. I ended up taking my 8 to a dealer 90 minutes away, passing 6-7 dealers far closer, when i needed any warranty service because of the complete crap i'd get from closer dealers trying to play games with smoke and mirrors.


That being said, if they made their decision based on BARO voltage numbers (A vacuum test that is often done before warranty claims), then your engine might actually be able to recover. I had one dealer compression test my engine and I got high 4s, low 5s across the board, but it passed a BARO test. They did a decarb and refused warranty coverage. 3 days later I got another compression test at another dealer and got 6.9s and low 7s. 2 months after that I re-tested and got high 7s. That motor lasted another 35,000 miles before it finally sucummed to the damage from the cat failure that I had suspected all along.

j9fd3s

i remember during the MSP16 recall, there was a number that the PCM generated to give us the health of the engine (and cat), and so i think they may take the compression and whatever the number is together to come up with a replacement engine.

i do know that the dealership just inputs the numbers into a screen, and then it tells you if you get an engine or not. we replaced a ton of cats but no engines

the only car we actually needed to compression test between 2004 and 2008, had an ignition failure, and with bad coils/plugs it was audibly running on 1 rotor, and it compression tested in the mid 5's. after replacing the ignition system, and running it for a while we retested it, and it passed comfortably. so the compression of the engine is linked to how well its running at the time

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Care to explain how failing ignition can cause a car to fail a compression test in which the ignition system is disabled and the plugs aren't even inserted into the ports?

Edit: About the only thing i can think of is failing ignition resulting in compression-reducing carbon buildup, that can get burnt off when the ignition is healthy.

j9fd3s

i have been playing with rotaries since 1993, and i've owned every year and model of Rx7, and a few others, NSU spider, R100, etc, and if you asked me early in 2005 if the compression test results were affected by how the engine was running, i would have said basically that they weren't.

then this car came in. i heard it running on one rotor, saw the compression test results. we called mazda they had us order 4 coils, wires and plugs. total waste of money right?

well we put the stuff on the car, ran it until it was warm, and redid the test and it passed. i was surprised.

i have no explanation of why this would be, only that it is.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Incomplete combustion leads to fuel wash...you loose the oil film on the housings and the compression drops a lot.

Basically same as a flood... the loss of compressIon is most of the problem. .... not the wet plug

Carbon Fibr

Hopefully you have all the receipts and logs of service, I feel you might be hassled in your future journey.