endowdly

iTrader: (2)

True. But, they need to rethink what should and shouldn't be plastic. IMHO.

syntheticdarkness

iTrader: (7)

Agreed, but it doesn't help that they weigh it down with all the leather and millions of airbags neither.

Apparently some of the people of mazda don't know about coat hangers when they were little, basically what are clutch brackets are.

snarlingbeast

If there had been a strong weld at the top, joining the two pieces of sheet metal above where the nut goes, there's no way your particular failure would have happened. It would have resisted the leverage of the clutch pedal that causes the tearing action on that part of the bracket metal. The only reason your spot weld came apart is because the metal above it and to the right had already torn through, putting all the force on that one weld.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Mazda make the clutch pedal bracket twice as strong (not to mention the firewall -- that thing flexes ridiculously). My point was that it would not take a major redesign of their manufacturing procedure at this point to fix this problem. Nor would a recall cost them much money.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

a recall on this thing (if it happens) would cost millions of dollars. Just like their engine recall, Im pretty sure it cost millions of dollar.

the firewall part ... *shurgs*, I wonder how they gonna recall that.

snarlingbeast

NASCAR-style tube bracing for everyone! But carbon fiber, of course.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

yeah ok !

if Mazda do that ... I think I will be a Mazda only customer for life

rx8cited

Maybe we can ask for a group buy on that

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

So I got my bracket welded today with the help of a friend. I wish I took pictures but I just didn't have my camera. The spot welds were being pulled from the bracket. There was no cracking or warping, but there was definite separation. I'm glad I got it welded... I didn't get pictures of the separation but I'll still make the report...

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

THATS WHY YOU NEED TO GET THE FLUID MOTORSPORTS CLUTCH BRACKET.

sheesh.

i repeat myself over and over about these things. but no one listens to me. and then bam, your clutch assembly breaks all over again. so go ahead, dont get it. see if i care. i dont get paid for posting this, i dont receive commission on them. im just trying to help you. i have one, and it was ridiculous how much it improved my shifting. my clutch assembly was on its way out. it became better than when i first bought the car.

im going to go red in the face about these things and you guys will still not be paying attention cause you dont want to spend $120. $120 that will actually improve performance. but you'll spend $750 for a 3hp upgrade and a "sound modification." talk about the ultimate rice.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I think we're trying to make this into a recall, so no one has to pay any extra for anything.

dont forget, we shouldn't even have to "pay to fix this" to begin with.

Spoolin8

iTrader: (2)

Ive noticed that my clutch pedal when i depress it makes a squeaking noise. What and were should i look to see if the bracket is coming loose? Is this a part thats inside the vehicle or in the engine bay?...

Pink Flea

Here is where mine broke...
I had it welded back, (sorry kersh4w, I cant afford a new one right now) It has held up great for over a year now after having it welded.
Edit: It also broke after I had over 100K on my car and I had just put in an ACT II comp clutch which is way heavier than the stock.. SO, Im sure the pressure difference had something to do with it. The guy who welded it for me works on a GT RX8 race team and told me he sees it constantly with Mazdas...

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

I'm gonna go ahead an say a reinforced bracket is completely unnecessary. I got a pretty good look at the brace when I had it out. If you just weld it, it's good to go. Take any materials or metal class. Welds are inherently much stronger than the metal surrounding them. In this case, due to the fact that the bracket is essentially a stressed frame, all of the pressure placed on the bracket during operation goes to those joints, not the actual metal. The metal being as thin as it is, is actually strong enough to transfer a lot of compression to these joints... there's no lateral movement on the pressed metal during operation; it won't fail in the i direction (assuming k is into the firewall) unless you roundhouse kick the pedal towards the brake assembly in a fit of rage... this is the only direction the bracket metal is weak in because there is no frame support in that direction. But, it won't fail in the j direction because of the transfer of force from the metal to the joints on the upper lock nut due to tension on the bracket frame during normal operation and it will not fail in the k direction because this is the normal operating direction--the frame is designed to transfer force in this direction to the joints on the firewall.

Basically what I'm saying is the joints fail. Not the metal. Even though the metal feels like crap and is super thin, it's bracket design is actually doing what it's supposed to. It transfers all of the energy to the joints. I dare someone to actually break that bracket by normally driving the car. You'll break the joints and spot welds, not the metal. So your argument that the metal is crappy and needs to be reinforced simply isn't true. All you have to do is reinforce the joints. I reinforced all of the joints on my bracket with five minutes of arc welding. My pedal now feels significantly stronger, the squeaking is gone, and I feel no fear pushing in the clutch.

Instead of spending $200 on, in my opinion, a completely unnecessary (notice I didn't say useless) reinforcement, you could just get it welded by a friend for free (like I did) and spend just half an hour on the whole ordeal for a complete fix.

I was going to go with the Mazsport/Fluid Bracket and even the BHR modified OEM pedal until CRH told me to check it out and get a welder. I took out the bracket and after looking at it and after doing some mental math and pulling out my statics and dynamics book I decided CRH was 100% right.

Just weld the damn thing and save yourself a lot of money and grief.

R

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Have you report the broken bracket issue to the NHTSA ?

Pink Flea

Ummm, no. What is the NHTSA?
I find that anytime I reported an issue with my car to Mazda they blew me off and would do nothing for me.
Example: My brakelights had the cool "fishtank" feature. I took it into Mazda while still under warranty only to be told at the time it was not a known issue... Then after I ran out of warranty I was told it was a service bulletin and if I where under warranty they would cover it. I also paid to have my starter replaced because I was told it was not a known issue either.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...72&postcount=1


your dealership sucks

dont worry u're not alone. I've been thru 5 dealerships before I found one that they actually know what they're doing.

and hmm, the fishtank feature ... I replaced mine (both sides) 4 times ... under warranty ... (the last replacement was 49303 miles ... 697 miles b4 expires, now if it happens again im on my own, 51K miles)

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

lol that sucks. the previous owner had the taillights replaced at my dealership. and then i had them replaced at the dealership. dealership asked me twice if i had had them replaced before. i said, "no I have never had them replaced before." lol. and then they replaced them.

about the brackets, my whole assembly would go sideways. i watched it as i depressed the clutch pedal. the joints/welds are weak as ****. absolutely. and you are right about the welds being stronger than the metal around it. thats why so many clutch assemblies break AROUND the weld spot. see pink fleas pic. they break around the weld cause the metal is shitty. sorry. what kind of metal sheers under normal operation?

and you might drive like a grandma. but i DO kick the **** out of the clutch. i have over 20 quarter mile passes on my rx8, and would probably put another 20, easy this summer. if i wasnt going to spend the entire summer doing PT.

my clutch assembly totally would go sideways. AND none of my welds or metal was broken. so where was the bending coming from? the metal.

you might drive differently from me. you might hit the clutch pedal from a different angle with a different amount of force.

stamped metal is used everywhere. because for its cost, its strong. the key point, "for its cost."

you could give me your re-welded clutch assembly and i'd wear it out in a summer of drag racing.

now i understand not everyone is as hard on their car as i am. i was talking to a gentleman yesterday (at a MSCW meet) who has more miles than i do and could not notice a difference in pedal play between my car and his car. neither could i. of course, the man was 55+ and used his car for commuting. no racing of any sort or any hard shifting. his clutch assembly will last for a long time. but it will eventually go too. it might just last until 150,000 miles though.

however, for the normal spirited driver. i really believe that our assemblies will not last more than 100k miles. i managed to make mine trash in less than 20k miles. this bracket makes it bulletproof.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I drive normally, I dont kick the **** outa my clutch. but mine still broke when I was @ 38K miles

there is something wrong with this bracket, weak weld spot or whatever. hell sometimes I feel that my Honda Fit's bracket is actually stronger than my rx8, makes me feel sad.

i know they're trying to cut cost here and there, but come on, now it seems that its costing them a lot of money, bracket issue, engine replacement cuz OMP design was fudged up, weak *** tranny, etc etc.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

its actually common for the clutch assembly to break on e28 bmw 5 series.

around 200,000 miles.....

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

our 8's bracket will break in ... that a zero out of your number, times 2 and bam ! there u go !

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

I just don't understand how you're pushing your clutch it at an angle. I don't understand how that is happening. Period. And I definitely don't drive like an old lady. I probably redline my eight more than I should.

And even if this bracket was 14 gauge steel, I bet those spot welds would fail. The metal might not shear off, but the spot welds would still separate. It's not the quality of the metal, but the quality of the joint.

My joints were pulling apart. There was no cracking or metal failure, jut massive gaps ready to separate. I understand most people are experiencing cracks and metal failure. This is just caused by different stresses, I think.

Again, it's not the quality of the metal that's the problem, but it IS the quality of the joints.

Maybe you're a special case because you kick your clutch in sideways, but I have never seen that and I can't even wrap my brain around that process!

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

mine went sideways when i pushed straight down.

and ok, your spot welds failed. but did you look at pink fleas photo? her spot welds HELD, but the metal AROUND the weld sheared.

the problem here is two-fold. i feel like im banging my head against a wall. you simply had one type of failure. but there is another failure out there as well. some pepple have a weld failure, others have a metal failure. some people have both.

reposting pink fleas pic to illustrate my point.

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

No no, I see what you're saying. The metal is cheap and weak. I completely agree. But what you're showing; that's shear stress at a JOINT.

It's the joint that's failing. If you had stronger metal there, than the spot weld would fail and the metal would hold. It doesn't matter if the metal is heavier or not. Do you see what I'm saying? The bracket itself is made of the same cheap metal, but it IS SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than it seems because of the STRESSED FRAME it makes. So yes, the metal is cheap and flimsy. BUT the metal is not the problem.

Get off the metal.

It's the joint that's the problem, whether the spot welds fail or the metal at the JOINT fails. Reinforce the joints, not the metal; do that with a weld.

snarlingbeast

To illustrate endowdly's point and my earlier point:

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

^Thank you. You weld the joints and the metal will not break. Your problem evaporates and then melts into a new stronger bond of everlasting clutch tastiness.