why does coolant make a double pass
01-08-2011, 08:06 AM
#76
My engine peaked at 242 after 10 laps at full throttle at texas motor speedway. Currently I am getting a sprayer to see if that solves the problem short term. I will also be installing the fan system on the oil coolers and adjusting my antifreeze levels. I am also looking into the koyo radiator, I am going to see how its different from stock.
01-08-2011, 08:27 AM
#77
Registered
A second note: There are a few people on this forum who I view as VERY WELL qualified to address this issue because they have tried and found out what works and what doesn't work. I trust their feedback. They have earned the right to be listened to without some people (not you) debating or contradicting them. Like all forums, you also have the goof ***** (that I love to crack on). No disrepect to them other than they open their mouths before thier minds. There is a great amount of archived info on this forum sports fans and it's usually not about "will it fit", "which exhaust should it get", "can somebody photo shop this on my car", or "listen to my new cool exhaust". To everyone out there, please take time to search, search, search.
Lastly, it is important for those who desire more info but maybe not speak up (I don't know who you are) to understand that many of these issues have been addressed a LONG time ago. LONG. Since the car was first built. The rotary is not FUC_ING unique with respect to managing heat. It is a car. You put gas in it. You drive it. It's a freakin car. Go to any track (drag, oval, road, drift) and you will find heat management approaches at work everywhere. People have solved issues in conventional ways. Please do not consider this car so unique that it requires a totally innovative problem solving methodology. I'll suggest to you when I talk to with NASCAR, IndyCar, Rolex, John Force, Ganassi Racing, 1,000 turbo V-8 cars THE SOLUTIONS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS THE SAME. It's a freakin' car sports fans. Not a newly discovered planet. Take time to learn if you are really trying to learn and please reserve a tendancy to provide quick uneducated comment (not incinuating anyone on this thread is doing this). INVEST in vendors and avoid shopping for the best price. I have learned that your best friend can result from paying someone for their service and not shopping them. You get what you pay for. The more you invest in a parts or service provider generally the more they will invest in you. To the contrary, they HATE dealing and educating idiots who argue with them or are too lazy to study. Seriously, the more you invest in education the higher quality conversations you can have with these vendors and they more that they will share. TRUST me, they know way more than they are sharing. Vendors need to keep some of their cards close to them (no free educating) because this industry is their livlihood. I have been blessed with learning some things about these motors, cars, transmissions, tuning that are more secretive and I'll probably never share this info on this forum because of the trusting relationship and information exchange dialogue we've both developed. Many of these vendors avoid these forums because of the guys that think several thousand dollars for an engine rebuild is ridiculous.
Not blowing my own horn here but I think we've down more than two dozen engine builds and dozens of 04-08 tranny rebuilds. I think I have 5 motors at my shop right now as spares. 4 09/10 trannys. Several diffs of varous ring and pinion ratios that we have tried, discarded, thrown away, sold, etc. I've got over 60K invested just in engine managment. 60K. I'm not stupid, just a learner in life who is not afraid to try things and tap into people who are smarter than I. Experts in this field are just that. Respect them. They were once like you and I and put their head down and have learned. Do the same. Try things. Read. Study. Question people. Ask why. All the simple things that the kid in school did. Lastly, never forget that old man wisdom that simple is usually the best. You know that approach. It's the SlingBlade guy who asks if their is gas in the lawnmower.
Have fun.
Meyer out
Lastly, it is important for those who desire more info but maybe not speak up (I don't know who you are) to understand that many of these issues have been addressed a LONG time ago. LONG. Since the car was first built. The rotary is not FUC_ING unique with respect to managing heat. It is a car. You put gas in it. You drive it. It's a freakin car. Go to any track (drag, oval, road, drift) and you will find heat management approaches at work everywhere. People have solved issues in conventional ways. Please do not consider this car so unique that it requires a totally innovative problem solving methodology. I'll suggest to you when I talk to with NASCAR, IndyCar, Rolex, John Force, Ganassi Racing, 1,000 turbo V-8 cars THE SOLUTIONS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS THE SAME. It's a freakin' car sports fans. Not a newly discovered planet. Take time to learn if you are really trying to learn and please reserve a tendancy to provide quick uneducated comment (not incinuating anyone on this thread is doing this). INVEST in vendors and avoid shopping for the best price. I have learned that your best friend can result from paying someone for their service and not shopping them. You get what you pay for. The more you invest in a parts or service provider generally the more they will invest in you. To the contrary, they HATE dealing and educating idiots who argue with them or are too lazy to study. Seriously, the more you invest in education the higher quality conversations you can have with these vendors and they more that they will share. TRUST me, they know way more than they are sharing. Vendors need to keep some of their cards close to them (no free educating) because this industry is their livlihood. I have been blessed with learning some things about these motors, cars, transmissions, tuning that are more secretive and I'll probably never share this info on this forum because of the trusting relationship and information exchange dialogue we've both developed. Many of these vendors avoid these forums because of the guys that think several thousand dollars for an engine rebuild is ridiculous.
Not blowing my own horn here but I think we've down more than two dozen engine builds and dozens of 04-08 tranny rebuilds. I think I have 5 motors at my shop right now as spares. 4 09/10 trannys. Several diffs of varous ring and pinion ratios that we have tried, discarded, thrown away, sold, etc. I've got over 60K invested just in engine managment. 60K. I'm not stupid, just a learner in life who is not afraid to try things and tap into people who are smarter than I. Experts in this field are just that. Respect them. They were once like you and I and put their head down and have learned. Do the same. Try things. Read. Study. Question people. Ask why. All the simple things that the kid in school did. Lastly, never forget that old man wisdom that simple is usually the best. You know that approach. It's the SlingBlade guy who asks if their is gas in the lawnmower.
Have fun.
Meyer out
Last edited by EricMeyer; 01-08-2011 at 08:37 AM.
01-08-2011, 08:41 AM
#79
MM--I repeat the 09 trans is a bolt in swap using the S1 ppf--no issues.
It is a very advantacious mod for the FI car. Try it you will def ike it.
Been running one for over a yr now. It likes Redline MT90.
Eric--glad you are aboard. Street cooling and racetrack cooling are two different animals as you know. Available airflow from one to the other are not comparable.
You are the man when it comes to data collection and R&D--no doubt and mucho appreciate your sharing. I wonder --do you monitor misfire count, each rotor temperature/egt etc? If you are then what is happening?
The basic questions I think is how do we better cool the exhaust port area? Waterjacket modification?
How do we have a more uniform operating temp throught out the engine?
Are there steam hotspots and if so where are they?
I am beginning to wonder if Evans coolant may be something to look at?
I do wish we had some cars trying the EWP--done properly i think it would be a very good option.
It is a very advantacious mod for the FI car. Try it you will def ike it.
Been running one for over a yr now. It likes Redline MT90.
Eric--glad you are aboard. Street cooling and racetrack cooling are two different animals as you know. Available airflow from one to the other are not comparable.
You are the man when it comes to data collection and R&D--no doubt and mucho appreciate your sharing. I wonder --do you monitor misfire count, each rotor temperature/egt etc? If you are then what is happening?
The basic questions I think is how do we better cool the exhaust port area? Waterjacket modification?
How do we have a more uniform operating temp throught out the engine?
Are there steam hotspots and if so where are they?
I am beginning to wonder if Evans coolant may be something to look at?
I do wish we had some cars trying the EWP--done properly i think it would be a very good option.
Last edited by olddragger; 01-08-2011 at 08:45 AM.
01-08-2011, 09:47 AM
#80
Registered
MM--I repeat the 09 trans is a bolt in swap using the S1 ppf--no issues.
It is a very advantacious mod for the FI car. Try it you will def ike it.
Been running one for over a yr now. It likes Redline MT90.
Eric--glad you are aboard. Street cooling and racetrack cooling are two different animals as you know. Available airflow from one to the other are not comparable.
You are the man when it comes to data collection and R&D--no doubt and mucho appreciate your sharing. I wonder --do you monitor misfire count, each rotor temperature/egt etc? If you are then what is happening?
The basic questions I think is how do we better cool the exhaust port area? Waterjacket modification?
How do we have a more uniform operating temp throught out the engine?
Are there steam hotspots and if so where are they?
I am beginning to wonder if Evans coolant may be something to look at?
I do wish we had some cars trying the EWP--done properly i think it would be a very good option.
It is a very advantacious mod for the FI car. Try it you will def ike it.
Been running one for over a yr now. It likes Redline MT90.
Eric--glad you are aboard. Street cooling and racetrack cooling are two different animals as you know. Available airflow from one to the other are not comparable.
You are the man when it comes to data collection and R&D--no doubt and mucho appreciate your sharing. I wonder --do you monitor misfire count, each rotor temperature/egt etc? If you are then what is happening?
The basic questions I think is how do we better cool the exhaust port area? Waterjacket modification?
How do we have a more uniform operating temp throught out the engine?
Are there steam hotspots and if so where are they?
I am beginning to wonder if Evans coolant may be something to look at?
I do wish we had some cars trying the EWP--done properly i think it would be a very good option.
Denny, I would offer that street cooling and track cooling are the same. Your are pulling heat out, preventing high heat from getting out of control (which I think is the real issue many people are missing) and managing minimum heat so the car performs optimum/doesn't get too cool.
Again I would offer that a big *** well ducted radiator and a fan stolen from a wind tunnel extracts heat period. Big *** oil coolers (we use a 10x10 Setrab and -10 AN lines) again with well ducted air PREVENTS the oil from getting out of control. Good water pump. Good tuning. LITTLE to nothing behind the radiator---THIS BLOCKS AIR FLOW folks. I'd argue that the name of the game is to remove heat that those with higher power engines (which add more heat) is the name of the game. I'd say the more you cool this thing the more power you can try and extract from the motor.
We have found the biggest single gesture to lower EGT is fattening the mix. .93 Lambda gave us 220'ish consistant hp and 1,700 EGT and low(er) side seal spring life. .89L gives us about 75F'ish less EGT and 4 times greater side seal spring performance.
If it were legal in our racing series I would try and coat a rotor on the champhored edge of the exhaust area to reflect/fight/prevent/reduce heat where the hot exhaust crosses the side seal area(s). I'd keep the rest of the rotor uncoated to USE THE ROTOR AS A COMBUSTION HEAT SINK and then talk to some smart engine guys in the industry about what they can do to use various old school 13B engine oil heat reduction/management techniques to ALLOW the Renesis rotor to better use it's current rotor oil cooling design to BETTER use and EXTRACT MORE heat through the rotor. Can you guys guess why we run big *** oil coolers yet? To freakin' extract more heat. Back to V8 engine (or any other engine 101).
If it were me (and apologies to any other engine builders on this forum that I've yet to meet), I would PAY A CONSULTANT FEE to Brian or Rob for their time and prepare yourself for a higher quality engine build that will extract more engine heat using the existing oil system. The components are already there. You just need to get out your wallets and pay very smart people (see previous posts) and tap into their knowledge base.
Again, DON'T try and create your own solution and then come to concrete conclusions (especially if you don't have data). I won't even try and problem solve if you can't provide data. Stupid. Go away. Talk up golf or wine tasting. There are well seasoned experts out there that can help to solve your engine issue O.D. Venturing out on your own without using the tired and true concepts that Brian and Rob (and probably others I haven't talked to) is an uphill battle.
No need to be defensive. I'm calling it like it is. You know and I know that you like to Tinker. I know you have a big picture of Geppoto the puppet maker in your shop and a zillion mad scientists tools. I would just make sure I use the stuff that the smart guys have been using for years and years and years with the 13B. NOT CHEAP. But it works. You may also be able to extract MORE POWER / HEAT from your engine but maintain the same temps. Or better yet, you can maintain your current power but run lower temps thus giving our heat sensitive engines longer life.
Gotta go shovel snow. Meyer out
01-08-2011, 10:21 AM
#81
Registered
Picture of O.D. working on his latest creation: Meth cooled diesel oil injection to a cooler in his trunk that decreases heat to his custom ported oil filter neck thingee. His theory? That the chemical reaction will reduce the Zinc content of the diesel (as measured in the oil analysis thread) and dramatically reduce the oil temps going into the engine therefore decreasing the mysterious "oil filter gasket hot spot" that has been perplexing Dr. Felix Heinrich Wankel until his death on Oct 9, 1988. Team had tried this back in '89 after a 4 day acid binge at a pearl jam concert after finding these mysterious documents underneath the metric socket drawer of Rotary God's toolbox. Both Leonard Nimoy and Geraldo Rivera questioned the authenticity of these documents and the jury is still out. It is rumored that the secretive Mazda 16X design engineering Ninjas obtained these documents from Team when he was distracted at a Pearl Jam concert at Seattle back in '89. Old forum posters (now deceased) rumored that a super hot Asian chick in a school girl dress, pigtails and rotary tatoo on her ace distracted Team and Ninjas swiped the secret Wankel notes. Official documents of this theft exist at area 51.
Sharp eyes will see that Ash character lurking in the background ready to post and defend that the Series II already has this incorporated this into the new motors and the Series 1 motors are of inferior design.
I asked my magic 8 ball question answering device that my nephew gave me for X-Mas: "Does a Mazda tech manual for O.D.'s contraption exist in limited print for the Mazda Iceland RX-8 market but is not available in print or .pdf for the Western World?". Magic 8 ball showed "possibly but not certain".
http://scienceblogs.com/bioephemera/mad-scientist.jpg
Sharp eyes will see that Ash character lurking in the background ready to post and defend that the Series II already has this incorporated this into the new motors and the Series 1 motors are of inferior design.
I asked my magic 8 ball question answering device that my nephew gave me for X-Mas: "Does a Mazda tech manual for O.D.'s contraption exist in limited print for the Mazda Iceland RX-8 market but is not available in print or .pdf for the Western World?". Magic 8 ball showed "possibly but not certain".
http://scienceblogs.com/bioephemera/mad-scientist.jpg
Last edited by EricMeyer; 01-08-2011 at 10:35 AM.
01-08-2011, 10:37 AM
#82
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indialantic, Florida
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I have nothing to add to this thread at the moment other than to learn...................so, how much snow did you shovel in ~1/2 hour between these posts Eric? 
01-08-2011, 03:52 PM
#84
Lol!
Where did you find that picture of my uncle?
Now Eric you know my own cooling problems are solved by that 16 quart cooler I strap into the passengers seat. Heh.
Got that idea from you when you were talking about Mustangs, NOPI girls, barbeque and PBR while at Road Atlanta whooping and hollering for your car to enter turn one faster.
Wait till you hear of my next idea--wrapping the exhaust pipe with the gas line.
Totally agree with ya ---no one can be an expert in everything, find good people and stay with them.
1700 egt (both rotors?) and side seal springs --== wrench time.
Now why is that? Maybes Mazda's wedge design wasnt what they thought it would be? Didnt count on the wedge shaped seal to have an affect on the side seal spring?. Didnt count on the exhaust heat having an affect on the spring either?
If you want to puzzle some of the recip experts ask them how they would handle piston rings if they required a spring behind them to function---they get quiet real fast. haha.
Some folks think the rich a/f's that were present in the early 04 cars was there to help the life of the cat. I think it was there for the cat but I also think it was for the side seal springs too.
They ended up chasing their tail on it until they came out with the series 2.
Coatings--yea baby--get as much energy (heat) out of the combustion as you can. Heat equals power
My build in Feb will have some Swain coatings in it. Stay tuned.
End result --- parts of this engine are being asked to live in an enviroment they are not designed to function in. Hot spots are killing us? Need better use of the coolant? Run Evans?
Dont even get me started on the 9.0K redline and the factory balancing.
Ah hell--the wife is home--i have to start making sense now.
OD
Where did you find that picture of my uncle?
Now Eric you know my own cooling problems are solved by that 16 quart cooler I strap into the passengers seat. Heh.
Got that idea from you when you were talking about Mustangs, NOPI girls, barbeque and PBR while at Road Atlanta whooping and hollering for your car to enter turn one faster.
Wait till you hear of my next idea--wrapping the exhaust pipe with the gas line.
Totally agree with ya ---no one can be an expert in everything, find good people and stay with them.
1700 egt (both rotors?) and side seal springs --== wrench time.
Now why is that? Maybes Mazda's wedge design wasnt what they thought it would be? Didnt count on the wedge shaped seal to have an affect on the side seal spring?. Didnt count on the exhaust heat having an affect on the spring either?
If you want to puzzle some of the recip experts ask them how they would handle piston rings if they required a spring behind them to function---they get quiet real fast. haha.
Some folks think the rich a/f's that were present in the early 04 cars was there to help the life of the cat. I think it was there for the cat but I also think it was for the side seal springs too.
They ended up chasing their tail on it until they came out with the series 2.
Coatings--yea baby--get as much energy (heat) out of the combustion as you can. Heat equals power
My build in Feb will have some Swain coatings in it. Stay tuned.
End result --- parts of this engine are being asked to live in an enviroment they are not designed to function in. Hot spots are killing us? Need better use of the coolant? Run Evans?
Dont even get me started on the 9.0K redline and the factory balancing.
Ah hell--the wife is home--i have to start making sense now.
OD
01-08-2011, 08:18 PM
#87
Most people never block/cover the side of the radiator and guess what happen, the air escapes on the side, radiator not doing its job.
Knight Sports radiator comes with everything, even the foams. so I don't have to go to home depot (which I did for Mazmart and Koyo rad)
but at 2 almost 3 times the cost of Mazmart/Koyo rad ... it better include everything !
Knight Sports radiator comes with everything, even the foams. so I don't have to go to home depot (which I did for Mazmart and Koyo rad)
but at 2 almost 3 times the cost of Mazmart/Koyo rad ... it better include everything !
01-08-2011, 09:42 PM
#88
Super Moderator
disagree that the exhaust ports are cooled enough. The coolant flow has been in use for all those years BUT this is the 1st side port exhaust engine. Before, the exhaust ports were not as heat soaked as they are now. We also have higher EGT's than the previous models.
All in all, it a spot that could be improved. I think?
OD
All in all, it a spot that could be improved. I think?
OD
I recall seeing faulty thermal reactors glowing all over in RX-7's.
01-08-2011, 10:15 PM
#90
Super Moderator
PPF has not changed in S2
It is the same frame used in S1 from July 20, 2005 Production.
ALL RX-8's will take later frame F151-39-710K used in S1 and S2.
Even if you order a PPF for a 2003 and 2004 the latest K is supplied.
It is the same frame used in S1 from July 20, 2005 Production.
ALL RX-8's will take later frame F151-39-710K used in S1 and S2.
Even if you order a PPF for a 2003 and 2004 the latest K is supplied.
01-08-2011, 10:19 PM
#91
Super Moderator
Yep, I sold a few here, even those decades ago they were like over $1000, usually if the air pump fecked up the thermal reactor would be damaged if it glowed too often, I think they physically melted inside restricting exhaust flow.!!
01-08-2011, 10:24 PM
#92
Super Moderator
Lol!
Where did you find that picture of my uncle?
Now Eric you know my own cooling problems are solved by that 16 quart cooler I strap into the passengers seat. Heh.
Got that idea from you when you were talking about Mustangs, NOPI girls, barbeque and PBR while at Road Atlanta whooping and hollering for your car to enter turn one faster.
Wait till you hear of my next idea--wrapping the exhaust pipe with the gas line.
Totally agree with ya ---no one can be an expert in everything, find good people and stay with them.
1700 egt (both rotors?) and side seal springs --== wrench time.
Now why is that? Maybes Mazda's wedge design wasnt what they thought it would be? Didnt count on the wedge shaped seal to have an affect on the side seal spring?.
Didnt count on the exhaust heat having an affect on the spring either?
If you want to puzzle some of the recip experts ask them how they would handle piston rings if they required a spring behind them to function---they get quiet real fast. haha.
Some folks think the rich a/f's that were present in the early 04 cars was there to help the life of the cat. I think it was there for the cat but I also think it was for the side seal springs too.
They ended up chasing their tail on it until they came out with the series 2.
Coatings--yea baby--get as much energy (heat) out of the combustion as you can. Heat equals power
My build in Feb will have some Swain coatings in it. Stay tuned.
End result --- parts of this engine are being asked to live in an enviroment they are not designed to function in. Hot spots are killing us? Need better use of the coolant? Run Evans?
Dont even get me started on the 9.0K redline and the factory balancing.
Ah hell--the wife is home--i have to start making sense now.
OD
Where did you find that picture of my uncle?
Now Eric you know my own cooling problems are solved by that 16 quart cooler I strap into the passengers seat. Heh.
Got that idea from you when you were talking about Mustangs, NOPI girls, barbeque and PBR while at Road Atlanta whooping and hollering for your car to enter turn one faster.
Wait till you hear of my next idea--wrapping the exhaust pipe with the gas line.
Totally agree with ya ---no one can be an expert in everything, find good people and stay with them.
1700 egt (both rotors?) and side seal springs --== wrench time.
Now why is that? Maybes Mazda's wedge design wasnt what they thought it would be? Didnt count on the wedge shaped seal to have an affect on the side seal spring?.
Didnt count on the exhaust heat having an affect on the spring either?
If you want to puzzle some of the recip experts ask them how they would handle piston rings if they required a spring behind them to function---they get quiet real fast. haha.
Some folks think the rich a/f's that were present in the early 04 cars was there to help the life of the cat. I think it was there for the cat but I also think it was for the side seal springs too.
They ended up chasing their tail on it until they came out with the series 2.
Coatings--yea baby--get as much energy (heat) out of the combustion as you can. Heat equals power
My build in Feb will have some Swain coatings in it. Stay tuned.
End result --- parts of this engine are being asked to live in an enviroment they are not designed to function in. Hot spots are killing us? Need better use of the coolant? Run Evans?
Dont even get me started on the 9.0K redline and the factory balancing.
Ah hell--the wife is home--i have to start making sense now.
OD
Side Seal SPRINGS in 2010's, with a PINK Paint Marking or (B) Spring.
01-08-2011, 10:33 PM
#93
Super Moderator
**** MEYER you are full of yourself!..what a ******!
01-08-2011, 11:32 PM
#94
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
All I can say is that My single 28" Fluidyne oil cooler works great, best mod ever. My Koyo rad now works meh (No better than stock at ridiculous temps) after following advise (thanks Eric and thanks NYCGPS for the pic) and blocking off everything I could with foam.
My only regret is not getting the Ron Davis/Griffen from the get go. The reman's water pumps have a revised impeller but I'm not sure how great it is. But I will be ditching the Koyo and getting the Mazmart water pump and thermostat before summer and I plan doing some serious ducting and reworking of the area behind the radiator. That may make the Koyo work. I have found a small secondary C/R radiator with a fan that will fit perfectly where one of my stock oil coolers once lived. I can't pass it up for the price so I will try that and if I am not 100% happy after datalogging some temps I will just trash the Koyo and make a purchase from Mazmart.
Either way, this engine does not like heat soak so cooling mods (oil and coolant) should be priority for anyone who tracks or drives hard in 100F+ temps.
My only regret is not getting the Ron Davis/Griffen from the get go. The reman's water pumps have a revised impeller but I'm not sure how great it is. But I will be ditching the Koyo and getting the Mazmart water pump and thermostat before summer and I plan doing some serious ducting and reworking of the area behind the radiator. That may make the Koyo work. I have found a small secondary C/R radiator with a fan that will fit perfectly where one of my stock oil coolers once lived. I can't pass it up for the price so I will try that and if I am not 100% happy after datalogging some temps I will just trash the Koyo and make a purchase from Mazmart.
Either way, this engine does not like heat soak so cooling mods (oil and coolant) should be priority for anyone who tracks or drives hard in 100F+ temps.
01-09-2011, 12:50 AM
#96
All I can say is that My single 28" Fluidyne oil cooler works great, best mod ever. My Koyo rad now works meh (No better than stock at ridiculous temps) after following advise (thanks Eric and thanks NYCGPS for the pic) and blocking off everything I could with foam.
My only regret is not getting the Ron Davis/Griffen from the get go. The reman's water pumps have a revised impeller but I'm not sure how great it is. But I will be ditching the Koyo and getting the Mazmart water pump and thermostat before summer and I plan doing some serious ducting and reworking of the area behind the radiator. That may make the Koyo work. I have found a small secondary C/R radiator with a fan that will fit perfectly where one of my stock oil coolers once lived. I can't pass it up for the price so I will try that and if I am not 100% happy after datalogging some temps I will just trash the Koyo and make a purchase from Mazmart.
Either way, this engine does not like heat soak so cooling mods (oil and coolant) should be priority for anyone who tracks or drives hard in 100F+ temps.
My only regret is not getting the Ron Davis/Griffen from the get go. The reman's water pumps have a revised impeller but I'm not sure how great it is. But I will be ditching the Koyo and getting the Mazmart water pump and thermostat before summer and I plan doing some serious ducting and reworking of the area behind the radiator. That may make the Koyo work. I have found a small secondary C/R radiator with a fan that will fit perfectly where one of my stock oil coolers once lived. I can't pass it up for the price so I will try that and if I am not 100% happy after datalogging some temps I will just trash the Koyo and make a purchase from Mazmart.
Either way, this engine does not like heat soak so cooling mods (oil and coolant) should be priority for anyone who tracks or drives hard in 100F+ temps.
Mazmart Water pump, RB flash, Knight Sports Rad right now. will reinstall the Lower temp Mazmart Thermostat when the weather gets warmer.
01-09-2011, 08:38 AM
#98
Thanks Ash---like I have said before--A good parts man is worth their weight in gold.
Interesting the "change"? in the side seal spring? Smart of Mazda when they increased the weight of the trans with the S2 model they made up for that a little by lightening the PPF.
And Eric--you see thats just it--the PP engine did not expose the side seal/spring to the heat like the side port engine does and as a whole the egt on the side port engine is hotter and moves slower. It also has a carbon characterisic that the PP exhaust didnt. IMHO it is a longetivity hotspot that need attention?
Look at the affect you yourself have seen side seal spring life at 1700F versus the same at 1500F? Right? Swain tech has a valve spring coating---hmmm?
Red hot--hell i have seen charlies na oem tune engine with a set of headers on it , get redhot on the dyno. I think we posted a vid on this some years back. It was the 1st run too.
I disagree concerning cooling on the track versus street is the same.
Yes--both share some basic fundamentals, but each have their own enviroment.
Race never sees a lot of partial throttle high rpm, heat soak, long up hill climbs at partial throttle, long idle periods, stop and go traffic while running the a/c and my personnel favorite --giving rides to 3 other lard ***'s.
The S2 front design is much better for air flow through the radiator. The S1 design actually had a swirling pocket of air in the upper 1/3 radiator area at speeds above 50-60mph. The RB cold air duct actually made it worse.
Since we will never be able to alter the basic design of the oem coolant passages into a single pass type, I like the EWP concept with Evans coolant. The high coolant flow at low speed operation, continuing to run after engine shut down for x minutes and no cavatation issues are just part of the attraction. Use it with Evans coolant and you dont even have to have any pressure in the system--making the EWP even more effective. I will continue to run my secondary radiator.
I may have to try that combo at some point.
Now to go and try to figure out how to paint a wrinkle finish on some parts when it is 32F outside. One heat gun going toward my jacket while the other one going toward the paint? Probably blow a fuse somewhere.
OD
Interesting the "change"? in the side seal spring? Smart of Mazda when they increased the weight of the trans with the S2 model they made up for that a little by lightening the PPF.
And Eric--you see thats just it--the PP engine did not expose the side seal/spring to the heat like the side port engine does and as a whole the egt on the side port engine is hotter and moves slower. It also has a carbon characterisic that the PP exhaust didnt. IMHO it is a longetivity hotspot that need attention?
Look at the affect you yourself have seen side seal spring life at 1700F versus the same at 1500F? Right? Swain tech has a valve spring coating---hmmm?
Red hot--hell i have seen charlies na oem tune engine with a set of headers on it , get redhot on the dyno. I think we posted a vid on this some years back. It was the 1st run too.
I disagree concerning cooling on the track versus street is the same.
Yes--both share some basic fundamentals, but each have their own enviroment.
Race never sees a lot of partial throttle high rpm, heat soak, long up hill climbs at partial throttle, long idle periods, stop and go traffic while running the a/c and my personnel favorite --giving rides to 3 other lard ***'s.
The S2 front design is much better for air flow through the radiator. The S1 design actually had a swirling pocket of air in the upper 1/3 radiator area at speeds above 50-60mph. The RB cold air duct actually made it worse.
Since we will never be able to alter the basic design of the oem coolant passages into a single pass type, I like the EWP concept with Evans coolant. The high coolant flow at low speed operation, continuing to run after engine shut down for x minutes and no cavatation issues are just part of the attraction. Use it with Evans coolant and you dont even have to have any pressure in the system--making the EWP even more effective. I will continue to run my secondary radiator.
I may have to try that combo at some point.
Now to go and try to figure out how to paint a wrinkle finish on some parts when it is 32F outside. One heat gun going toward my jacket while the other one going toward the paint? Probably blow a fuse somewhere.
OD
