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slightly confusing in that I get both lean and rich conditions on this log . It looks like I get the lean under decel and rich under any loads am I reading this correct . Attempting to learn to use MegalogviewerHD and VT at same time
You don't say what injectors you have in p1 ... are they uncapped reds ? Where do you get the 550 figure from? Uncapped yellows should be around 830 if you use the latency table I linked.
(almost) No fuel is injected when off throttle decelerating. That would be counter-productive to decelerating :D So the lean reading makes sense. Focus on steady state (idle and cruise), get that right, then work on accel. Or go back to stock injectors
I am not 100% to be honest what my reds flow . The advertised figure was a 47% increase but then the static flow sheet that came back with them said all 6 were now 820.
When I tried 820 all across is when i had the very lean logs at the start.
So I have basically just been guessing and testing the afr s
I emailed injector rehab to ask what had been done to the reds. He did now answer me just told me I am wasting my time trying to get them to work. I understand I created this problem myself but a reply to what the reds flow would have been nice.
Yes going to back to stock injectors would make things less complicated but where is the fun in that. If I cant ever get them to run well i will do that but this is a just a once in a while track rat
If it's a track rat, that's more reason to go back to stock. You don't want to push an engine with a questionable tune unless you want to create even bigger problems for yourself. And there's nothing to be gained from having higher flowing injectors.
Injector Rehab sold you a service to make them flow more and then told you you're wasting your time trying to get the injectors to work? Wow.
Well to their credit I did ask for the service ( not knowing ) I assume they sell it for turbo application and assumed I fell into that category.
When I asked about getting it to work on a NA application is when he said I should sell them and stop wasting my time
I feel like I really need to listen and just forget trying to tune these but yeah last time I tried to remove injectors I lost all will to live its a nightmare for me I hate those goddam connectors more than anything
That and I felt like Im getting close to atleast getting a better short term fuel trim and then possibly play with it more from there but yeah just really really do not want to pull injectors my spine and my patience cant take it
I did get another reply about the reds though
He said they are all matched to 820 , which is no where near a 47% increase , but when I put the injector scaling 1 to 820 its stupid lean.
In terms of injector scaling 1 2 3 is there any way to know exactly when those maps become active
would it be map1 up to 4k , map 2 4k to 7k and map 3 beyond
You should suck it up and go back to stock . Those uncapped reds are a very bad choice for p1 and even worse in combination with the uncapped yellows.
The plugs will be way easier to get off now that they have been removed once already ... just do it !
Also is there any guarantee that all the reds flow the same amount? You don't want them to perform differently after whatever was done to them, that would be real bad.
I am pretty sure there is no way the reds flow the same
I have found myself another set of injectors hopefully have em next week or so.
In the interest of tinkering for fun in the meantime still logging and trying sure looks like the cruising short terms are pretty dam close.
I am just taking short low load drives and logging small changes for fun at this point trying to see changes in megalogviewer
TLDR: Those logs are a bit long, not well labelled and need to be repeatable.
Lots of good advice here on how address your issue, so I've got nothing to add there, however.
I would just like to ask as a courteously try and post your data logging to a specific naming convention.
Basically like these 3 types. Idle, Cruise and WOT (wide open throttle).
- Idle_Warm R580 - Y815.csv
- Cruise_3rd Gear 3kRPM R580 - Y815.csv
- WOT 3rd Gear R580 - Y815.csv
It's really hard to tell what's going on when you post a log where you've been driving around all over the place.
And try and find a good place where you can repeatable perform the same logging. Like long flat road or with just a slight incline.
You really want to get as close as you can to repeatable logging runs, in order to determine what or if anything changed after adjusting the tune.
This Trace makes my brain hurt (but TBH that really doesn't take much)
Also you may not be aware that the more channels you select it will decrease the sampling rate.
For example I don't think at this point in your adventure you need to be logging "Actual throttle angle" or "Fuel System Status".
Which brings me to my last point, as I understand it you're still trying to reign in those crazy injectors. So IMO you should be logging the "Fuel injection pulse width (ms)".
You can then use that value along with the RPM to determine the Injector Duty Cycle.
You can plug this formula in to a Custom Calculated field in MLV. 100*[Fuel injection pulse width]*[RPM]/(1*60*1000*1000)
This may help your troubleshooting/diagnosis. It most certainly will more that the "Fuel System Status" for example.
Good luck.
PS. I've attached a Series 1 RX8 Stock Tune that you can upload to VT. I copied it from Cobb ATR.
i was not aware of the sampling rate issue thank you.
And love the information on pulse width that seems like it would be very helpful
I have some new OE injectors on the way just playing with this in the meantime
Felt really stupid last night when someone showed me how to start from a totally stock map on VT I was still trying to modify an off the shelf tune and that was causing way too many issues.
But also somewhat had to start over with injector settings but learning lots.
Does anyone know how to get Megalogviewer to load a VT map or is it even possible
The only way so far that I've been able to add my own VE and AFR maps is manually.
Either do it through the MLB product or old skool and edit the .table file directly
Car decided it does not want to rev past 6k again and absolutely feels software related just refuses to go past 6k no codes
Sorry the log is probably ugly again as I was not planning to post this.
Still waiting on OE flow injectors still playing around with VE tables and taking logs had not tried to go past 6k until VE changes started to look to be making a difference so tried to bring revs up and problem is now back
I doubt a log would show anything other than maybe max load exceeded but I donèt see that at 6k anyone see any reason for it
Dan and Brett (and others) are way better at this stuff than myself but I'll take a poke at it.
Given everything that has been mentioned above, I'm sticking with the Injector sizing is bad.
This pic from the first log shows the AFR's dropping to the 11's as soon as the ECU goes in to OPEN loop.
In the second log file .. this screen shot you have punched the go peddle, a spike of STFT for fuel enrichment is expected then the ECU starts pulling out a lot of fuel, up to 19% all the while your foot is to the floor. Not quite what you would expect.
In short too much fuel. You're choking to death with fuel.
Maybe I could see more if you post your tune that you're using and I can have a look at it.
Dan and Brett are better at this than me, maybe they might have more input.
Much appreciate anyone taking time to read this still as we of course know the why this happening and will still swap for oe flow
Mostly I find it interesting that it is possible to have a software induced shutdown at 6k as basically everything you read most places would have you think that it is always mechanically based but that is just not true here.
I did not see the spike to rich as that huge a factor as the car would previously rev higher with it spiked right to -25 on a different flash
Again appreciate your input dont have the flash on me but will post that later
STFT reads zero once you're in OPEN loop.
By default in the S1, the ECU is forced in to OPEN loop at 6000 rpm or by LOAD.
Check the tables under the section "Absolute Limits" in VT.
Tables:
Closed Loop Max Load 1
Closed Loop Max Load 2
Closed Loop Max Load 3
Closed Loop Max Throttle
Last edited by wcs; 05-14-2023 at 08:39 AM.
Reason: typo
Alright so I got myself another set of injectors yesterday.
all back together flash a totally stock map and more fun
VT log shows on startup car struggles to start and runs very rough searching for idle. The afr shoots immediately to +25 and car dies without added throttle. Maf readings are initially high around 9 then fall lower and lower under 3 and 4 when it dies.
So can a simple.mistake and vacuum leak cause such a huge spike in afr ?
or
My biggest fear is that these "new" injectors ( pulled from running engine but bought used ) may have an issue and not function.
I will of course go searching searching leaks or errors tonight hut wanted to see if something simple could cause such a big spike in afr and car not willing to idle.
Yes both rotors are firing no codes.
Yes sorry that is stft that is at plus 25 , the afr is at 20.9 sometimes comes down aa bit but not much
when the maf is higher its hunting for idle around 2k , when it settles so will the maf readings at 5.5
this is a log of it idling and dying
I just finished taking it all apart and putting it back together and same result , double and then some checked everything again wiring is all correct all hoses are connected
.
Talked to buyer again today he swears injectors are good as the they came out of a running car that got turbo upgrades and thus did not need them anymore but worked.
I am at a loss , and of course supposed to be on track on Saturday....
05-08-2023, 09:34 PM
