@!!narotordo

I use to use 5w-40 non-synthetci oil and never had any start up issues. But now that I use Mobil 1 0w-40 synthetic oil in the winter my start ups take a lill longer. Hope that will go a way when it starts getting hot.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

no diesel oil has nothing to do with it. not getting the oil up to temps and the unusual cold here in the recent past was what caused this. since i cleaned the catch and have kept my temps up--i am getting much less.
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I have been noticing the white froth at the top of the dipstick lately. I also noticed that even when it was warm yesterday (mid 70's) my oil temps were the same (even after doing some "testing") at cruising speeds. I wish summer would come.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Interesting read.

http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182855-1.html

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Indeed. And the third professional to say that oil is oil. And this is a guy who tests oils that people's lives depend on. Think anybody will listen?

So get the viscosity right, which I think we've seen clear evidence makes a big difference, and don't worry so much about brand and type.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, I have read that a lot lately. But, I have seen how different (not bad, just different) oils can be when tested.

always.anthony

the most impressive uoa i've found was for a gti i think, redline 10w40, 7.5k mile interval before change, and they said it could still go a bit more

and i've seen wally mart oil uoas at 3k, with black stone suggesting changing earlier or new oil

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Here is an interesting quote from the article by Fenton:

Bearing wear will sometimes throw us. It's very, very slow. Sometimes when an engine is opened up the mechanic will say, 'We've got some badly worn bearings in here,' and yet the oil analysis didn't show a thing because it's so gradual that we never saw a break in the profile.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I read that. Our bearings are copper right?

EricMeyer

ding, ding! we have a winner

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Okay so who wants to create a spreadsheet for me .

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I have no problem doing it. I am a data freak for work anyway, and this kind of stuff really interests me


(I'll deny it, but I heard someone in my head once tell me how to set up a really involved test to benchmark the effect of every type of oil, and a different voice told me that I need a million or so in funding to do it.)

Edit:
So is a starter set of data or a bunch of sheets hanging around out there that I can use? And do you only get them as paper or images, vs do you get them in digital form any way (other than digital picture). I can use software to get most of what I need without having to retype everything from sheets, but if each sheet is in a PDF or word document where it already recognizes the text and numbers, that would be best.

Let me know if you need me email address.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

OD (old fart ) gets them in paper format I believe but I get them emailed to me as a .PDF and I have a couple (withe personal info removed of course) that are in .PDF format as well that I could email you.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Sounds good. I PMed you my email. I can use yours as a basis to start it up.

If anyone does send any that have personal info, I will strip it off and refer only by their 8club ID. I handle alot of cases on the side dealing with identity theft, so I am aware of any risk there, and won't store anything personal anywhere.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Alright, I have the spreadsheet started, although while building it, I think I need to add more points than what are provided by the UOA sheets, so if you send a sheet to me, also send:

- Engine mileage at the change (chassis mileage if you are on your first engine, not chassis mileage if you are on your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 27th, or 19,567,012th.)
- Year of 8 (for series, flash, other changes)
- Transmission (AT / MT)
- Primary Climate (Warm Dry, Cold Dry, Warm Wet, Dry Wet)
- Primary Octane used
- Premix Type
- Premix Volume
- Oil burn rate (any rate calculation you want is fine, though please specify how you arrived at that rate, I will convert to quarts per 1,000miles)

...and if you know them: (each point for the oil being analyzed, not lifetime)
- Typical Cold Oil Pressure
- Typical Hot Oil Pressure
- Typical Hot Oil Temp
- Typical Hot Water Temp


I see these additional points as potentially affecting how much engine wear someone has. Disagree with me? Ok. Send the information anyway and we will let the data/trend prove me wrong. If there is something you think might play a part in the wear and UOA and you think I should add it, just let me know.

If you are wrong, then the data will say so, if you are right, then the data will say so.

What I don't want is for this to get a few years down the road and we are seeing a clear trend or confusing data, and someone says: "I bet <this> is the issue, can we track that?"

It's better to include the data than think it's not worth it.


Edit:
Added climate
I'd add driving behavior, but that is so subjective and opinion / perspective based that it isn't 'data points' to track.

I also don't want to add mod lists or anything. If your mod should change something here, then it will show up here. Measure it, don't just tell me "I got the latest chrome plated schnozzlesquirter for my thingamabob, so I should be seeing my coolant retaining bolt drop several degrees below my headlight amoeba spawn count." I can't track that.

robrecht

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to first see about getting Blackstone's data. Someone could perhaps volunteer to co-author a piece with them that would highlight their services and provide very useful information to the RX-8 community, or any other car community. Wonder if they've ever done or thought about this?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I thought about that. I'm guessing that it would a cost$ outlay to get their data. I can give it a shot.

What other UOA companies are out there that people use?

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

Oil change interval is going to be WAY more important than what brand. It'll take a lot less data to prove that, so we should see that a lot earlier than comparing types.

Also, has Blackstone's results ever been in question? Just thinking it might be good to send a sample or two to a different lab and compare. All data is for nothing if the methods are not correct.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Excellent point.

I think I might do that on my next change. Haven't had any oil analyzed yet, so might be interesting.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I actually read some things that did question some of the UOA's but I never found any data questioning black stones results. I would like to take sample and split it up between two companies and see what the results are. Anyone know of another company reasonably priced beside Blackstone?

Flashwing

I spoke to a few people in the industry who deal with oil analysis for private sectory and the miltary. They suggested blackstone mainly for the cost vs. benefit.

Blackstone's reports are very well laid out and easy to read. Also the fact that they provide a paragraph of comments for the sample also is a great feature I've not seen anywhere else.

Change interval is something you can accomplish with a sample taken at 3,000 miles or so with a TBN to detect how much of the additive package is left.

PhillipM

And yet then they speak about the Mobil 1 problem they saw....
So, obviously, oil ain't oil.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

HA! Right. So that proves synthetic sucks! Right? Right?

PhillipM

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I am just curious what the results would be of the same sample sent to two different places.