plain ole wanker

Any lab worth their salt will run calibration sample tests of their own to verify their own machines. If they don't they will have a lot to lose in the way of business. So if your sending your samples to unreliable lab this would be a problem. It's same for blood work done at the hospitals calibrating and recalibrating is the nature of the beast for all labs. So if your sending fresh samples in you will only be paying for their own calibrating and verifying process.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well if I send in a clean sample and and the report verifies its clean then I would say the usual results are pretty accurate. We will see.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

blackstone has been around a while---they stand to lose A LOT if they dont do a good job.
OD

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

Theres more to it then that...

I run a predicitive maintenance program at work where we do a lot of oil sampling of machinery. In order to get a decently repeatable sample, you need to drain out a good amount of oil so you get a sample from the actual fluid circulating in the system and not just whats laying in the bottom of the oil resevoir.

In i'd say in a majority of the DIY automotive samples, you see completely **** poor trends because of poor sample taking methods. I've seen many people do "long term oil tests" by just tapping off enough oil to fill the sample jar every couple thousand miles and start proclaiming to the world there sample results actually have and use...

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

So how would you suggest taking a sample from an RX8? I take mine mid stream during the drain.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i do the same after oil has warmed up good.
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I always drain my oil hot/warm.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Here is some food for thought:
ZDDP also alters bearing and journal surface characteristics to prevent metal to metal contact. Under extereme conditions like a high perfromance motor, ZDDP reduces the tendancy of parts to scuff or gall under heavy loads.

From this website:
http://www.eastwood.com/underhood-en...e-4-fl-oz.html

So do Zinc or Moly go directly to this issue (either buying oil that hasn't had it reduced or an additive)? Ie, are our bearings bearing the brunt of protecting the cats?

Also, lubricant experts: would i learn anything by having Blackstone run MMO? Maybe compared to FP Plus and Amsoil Saber Pro. Anyone want to go in 1/3 on a comparo?

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

This makes complete sense for stationary machinery, but it would seem that in an automobile (particularly one that regularly gets subjected to elevated braking and cornering forces) the oil would be mixed a bit better, and one could easily overcome any issues in this regard by waiting a few seconds after removing the drain plug before taking the sample, as others have noted. Cleaning around the drain plug before removing is also a good idea, I'm sure.

I guess, before taking the sample, in addition to getting your oil nice & hot, one should find a nice slalom somewhere.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

OK, to put things into more perspective when I worked at a pretty well known company's oil R&D labs for engine oils they had a testing program for employees cars where they would....

- drain the oil
- run a flushing oil through the system (typically you only drain about 80% of the oil on most cars and then you still want to clean out any sludge in the valve train and oil passeges)
- drain it again
- drop the oil pan and clean out any sludge
- fill with the new test oil
... depending on the routine, a sampling port might also be installed on an oil cooler line if your car had one

...and then have a sample size of 20-50 cars...

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

scientific methods are a lot of work
After a lot of thought from my old tired brain--i have come to realize that why the rotary shears oil so much is because of the rotor bearing loads on the e shaft and the rotor gear load on the stationary gears?
An arguement for a oil with pressure additives like transmission oils maybe could be made?
OD

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

But why so much worry over the shearing? Rotor bearing failure is basically never the failure mode of a rotary engine. Most of the time the e-shaft can be reused during a rebuild. Stationary gear failure is sometimes the failure mode, but not from lubrication failures, usually from becoming not stationary.

PhillipM

Yep, which is why I recommended that Millers oil design specifically for high shear loads - their rep is looking into whether it would be commercialy viable to produce a 5w-40 version for us rotary owners.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

In case you missed it:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/5w30-oil-dont-cut-engine-bearing-pics-58k-s1-rx-8-england-183355/

While it's true that the prevailing wisdom, that Renesis failures are mostly due to carbon build up and/or lack of lubrication of the seals, still holds (at least best I can tell, LOL), clearly there is something going on with Renesis bearing wear that has not been present in older rotaries. So, assuming premixing and proper maintenance solves the seal lubrication & carbon issues, we'd like to know that the bearings will not wear out prematurely.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks, saved me from a much longer and less concise post.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

you know i am getting a lot more oil in my catch can now that my temps are up.
hmmmmmm.
OD

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Could it also have to do with more oil pressure? Right now when I pull the intake hose off, I do not see any residue in there. That was making me think i wouldn't benefit from a catch can. Am I wrong? Do you think when I do the Oil Pressure Mod i will get more oil in the intake?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hmmmmmm.... I will be installing my OP kit and a catch can on the same day so we will see.

always.anthony

wait......so should i warm up the car, or just drive it?

confused on that part. and a small why wouldn't hurt too :P

right now i'm thinking it gets gas in the oil?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well the common belief is that idling your car to full warm before driving away increases fuel content in the oil and dilutes it. But I stopped doing that during my last OCI and my fuel content increased in the fuel so..................

Now I am back to letting it warm up completely before I go anywhere so we will see in my next UOA.

always.anthony

cool thank you! i'll let it idle for now, just cause i see rotaries as glass cannons. i'll idle for warmth until your next uoa and then we will see
thanks!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

no way does the bypass have any affect on increased oil catch can output. I think what is happening is because i am getting my oil temp hotter the engine is boiling off all the crap.
i had a lot of crap! Less being produced right now.
would you believe over a pint of muddy.creamy looking crap came out?
OD

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

and that was after you cleaned out the pan?

@!!narotordo

You talked about using diesel oil did you ever switch? could that be what its from?