Nadrealista

ditto on less viscosity improvers is better..redline 5w-30 doesn't have any, it is full ester oil and costs about the same as RP oil.

there is one big difference between DI and rotary..rotary does get fuel spray all over the rotors, housing and intake ports..and there are no valves :-)

fuel system cleaners can also help to minimize deposits.

and again even if you do get deposits that's what the seafoam is for..it takes only an hour to do the seafoam treatment..

40w8

^Nadrealista,
That gas spray is the more likely culprit of carbon and deposits in the rotary.

40w8

I wasn't even reading BITOG five years ago, but I stand by my latest info that Mobil said somewhere that they use PAO and Ester blend now. Some other esters like Redline seem to have very good specs, but M1 is worldwide, has massive R & D, and Mercedes likes it.

I'm running M1 0w40 in my Dodge 4.7l with good results at 10k mile changes (specs say use 5w30).

Nadrealista

probably combination of unburned gas and oil..ester based oil, drive it like you stole it combined with frequent use of a good fuel system cleaner is probably a good idea to keep the deposits down.

not sure what effect premix has on the deposits?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Are we trying to reinvent the wheel here ? I thought by now the last 4-5 posts were common knowledge

Iluvrevs

Here's the link. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1995447&page=1. The post was made in 2010. GC scans will also serve to refute the base stuck of most M1 formulas not including in majority Grp III.

Iluvrevs

There are regular use products that would likely help as premix and would also enhance the lubricity of the fuel. I’d imagine a 2 cycle type premix wouldn’t serve to clean as well, but a good one shouldn’t deposit either. From as high as Blackstone is showing fuel readings on this site Id imagine fuel could be part of the problem too if its not completely burning. As you point out the Italian tune up won’t hurt at all and probably help preserve a cleaner engine. The same can be said for Ester/Group V based oils with the inherent solvency. They will serve to clean as they lubricate and typically burn cleaner from what I understand. Finally, a group II base stock is also more solvent than the Group III and certainly most group IVs so they are likely a safer bet if one doesn’t want to spend the money on the ester oils.

40w8

ok, I bit, and here's what I got.

XOM dumbed down their M1 to be able to sell alot.

"Even the German cars (hardest to lube) will barely notice, and the longlasting benefits can be utilized by more cars for a cleaner world fleet."

Cars and old people gotta die at some point or they're gonna stink up the place.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

And yet another report, running "diesel" oil for the second report in a row. Not much calcium, less than Castrol GTX (every earlier report). Lots more zinc and boron. Nothing else notable except low flashpoint. And viscosity finally held within limits. You guys can talk about deposits all you want, I'm sold on diesel oil. These engines aren't going to last the 300,000 miles that would be required for it to matter anyway.

I'm still not convinced Blackstone has a clue about Wankels. Chrome from apex seals? No. Not even from the housings. It's coming from eccentric shaft main bearings.

40w8

it's a good thing you have that thick oil in there because the gas is about to eat a bearing.

Probably an injector drip, but it needs to be fixed.

Maybe some Techron treatment for a tank or two or just take em out?

Nadrealista

which oil did you run on 11/05/09 uoa? that one did best

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I really liked the Rotella and it's cheap. I was having a fuel dilution issue but that went away when I started premixing crazy amounts when my oil injectors failed. My oil consumption is awesome now with the new injectors and lines so I have backed way off on premixing the gas to about 4 oz per tank.

That UOA looks good though otherwise.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Hmm. Every rotary I've ever had (several) has had high fuel (presumably) dilution in the oil. Nonetheless, I will add getting the injectors cleaned/rebuilt/balanced to the short list of things to do this Summer. I'm putting in a couple high-flow injectors as part of the Turblowsion™ project.

All intervals except the last two were Castrol GTX 10W-30. I don't think it was the best based on the loss of viscosity. I think there were a couple of long road trips on that interval. I'm going to keep a better log of what I do on this and future intervals. (Which I should have been doing all along...)

Iluvrevs

I personally don’t see the reduction of PAO, AN, or Esters from M1 an overall reduction in its quality. Group IIIs have their benefits over PAO with the better additive solubility and a little better solvency. And the base stocks can be nearly as stable and pure it makes good sense to use them for most cars.
FWIW Ive not seen substantial enough wear reduction, if any at all, from systhetics over Group IIIs and IIs.

40w8

Exactly!

There were lots of good oils 40 years ago, so worrying about what the oil companies formulas might do to your engine is like day trading stocks instead of calming your money down in good mutual funds.

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

Ill play... just ordered my sample kit, ill post back in the following weeks with what I find.

FYI I run Royal Purple 5W-30 w/ Idemitsu premix @ ~8 o.z. a tank on roughly 3K miles on my reman

Iluvrevs

Wankel, Im not being to disregard the merits of HDEO. I only argue from the deposits perspective for the sake of warranty or engine life. From what Ive seen and as you point out these rotaries will not last the life of an otto engine. So, my argument and thought was that if Mazda is so willing to replace these engines one may as well go with an approved oil. However, if I was tracking one of these Id go with HDEO or even better a niche HDEO like Redline or Renewable Lubricants Inc,

That being said I still dont see any benefit of HDEO over PCMO from the UOAs presented here, but I will go back and plot these all out.

If I was tracking mine (and I will be soon) and I didnt want the expense of a niche synthetic an HDEO 15w40 such as Rotella or Delvac would be my oil of choice. My calcs tell me that its 20$/month to run an niche synthetic over an over the counter synthetic. So, its a no brainer for me.

Iluvrevs

It only pays to worry about these things when one is under warranty INMO. Me,.... I like the idea of a new engine shortly before Im out of warranty.

Iluvrevs

I will post my Dyson of the factory fill in a week or 2 when I get the results. Tomorrow in goes RLI 30w HD.

40w8

No, it only pays to worry about it after warranty!

They'll let you run crap oil under warranty (5w20 dino) for 8 years/ 100k miles.

I had two RX3 rotaries failed under heat load issues not oiling issues.

the first was water seal leaks, and the second was that I was running at 7krpm on a hot day, and a apex seal cratered.

If I had rodded the rad when the new rebuild was put in, and had the presence of mind to premix, the second engine would have lasted.

TrochoidMagic

those who may understand more in depth of oil characteristics, may need to look into what i'm about to say, and give some feedback. and since this IS just like the biggest oil thread, with whom people also like to test oils so i've decided to post them here.

so WHO, would consider if not have already been doing so, to run valvoline VR1 if they are running a midpipe.

lets cover some basics first. VR1 race oil, specifically states contains ZDDP, an anti-wear zinc additive that works very well for high stress and wear parts.

sounds great, right?

here's the downfall: zinc, when introduced to the catalytic converter, will slowly coat it and render it useless. which is bad news for our unique combustion process.

these type of oil are great for older style vehicles that don't run a fancy valvetrain system, OR a cat. so if u aren't running one (cat) then i don't see why this is a bad oil to try.

one warning though: high zinc content isn't something the air pollution police likes very much, so let me just keep this simple that this oil, is heavily tinted (flourescent dye, very close in color to a block tracer)

TrochoidMagic

my problem is this: i'd like to know how "immediate" the process of the converter being coated by zinc is, this way i'd would know if running a quart or two while on my high flow cat for a track day would have any canceling effect. like a compromise of sorts... easier on motor wear, but more on the cat.

hmmm... i'd imagine the more classic car owners and the more matured to have a good insight on this. but those who studies oil properties very well, your info is also appreciated.

thanx,
TM

40w8

Your rotary doesn't have any valve train system, which is what zddp additives were designed for.

The rotary hasn't been officially tested to any specs, and we are only told to put in normal 5w20 dino.

Those light oil's have been tested by owners, and found to wear bearings which have hydrostatic pressure (oil pump), and zddp won't fix that in a low weight situation.

Soulution?

I don't think any oil out there will make much difference in longevity since your seals will crater first, but I'd run at least something Xw40, and I use M1 0w40.

Deposit control in the combustion chamber, and cat can be accomplished by making sure you never have misfire.

Iluvrevs

ZDDP is to protect against metal to metal contact when oil film becomes void. Its been predominantly used due to its relatively low cost. The impact it has on CAT's is arguable by most, but in a known oil burner I gather its a safer bet that there will be damage done. How fast is anyone’s guess, but assuming there is no pre-existing contamination Id imagine you’d be fine for quite some time. The rotor gears would benefit a lot from ZDDP just as a transmission does from ZDDP and other extreme pressure/antiwear adds. I guess Id sum it all up to damned if you damned if you don’t.

BTW its the phos that is the major culprit to CAT damage, but since they are found together its safe to say zinc is part of the problem.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

The rotor gears would benefit a lot from ZDDP....

Never heard of a rotor gear failure, but cats fail daily.

Used to work for an oil refinery that used very expensive platinum/rhodium catalysts to hydro-crack oils, and wanted to maximize their life - the pumps, gearboxes and compressors used all kinds of expensive and exotic lubes, and oil changes were frequent (they ran 24/7 for two or three years straight.)

The plant had a huge tank to hold all this used oil, and it would have been much easier to just thow it all back in with the 'crude' but they had done the numbers - that tiny percentage of metallic additives would cost them big-time in catalyst life.

No, they paid a company to truck it away to a re-refiner who could clean it up and sell it as lubes (to someone else!)