endowdly

iTrader: (2)

I did a search and saw a couple of threads on the stuff, but none that discussed what I'd like to; I didn't want to jack any threads.

I posted this in the Pettit Super Charger post, but I'd like to expand it and clarify for the general population.

This is the OP:

!!! The Truth About WaterWetter (R) !!!

So I mentioned earlier I would find the engineering paper on why WaterWetter by Red Line Oil is bad to use. I can't find it. Instead I'll substitute a couple of reviews and a really good chemical analysis that basically outlines the fact that WaterWetter causes build up in silicone and plastic tubing and corrodes metal, which was in the engineering evaluation. That paper also did a thermal evaluation on the product and declared it did increase water's thermal capacity and helped carry away heat from the engine. But it was a marginal (almost negligible) improvement. Where WatterWetter supposedly shines, according to that paper, is it helps reduce hot spots on cylinder heads. Well... we don't have those things in our car, and I would think thermal dissipation in a rotary engine is much more even due to the fluid movement of the combustion chamber. So the gains are negligible and the product has potential to corrode parts, seals, housings, and gunk up tubes. Hm. Pick your poison, I guess.

Links
Water Wetter Review
Chemical Analysis of WaterWetter

-- In Summary --

WaterWetter helps reduce heat spots at the cost of not actual reducing overall engine temperature to a noticeable degree. It is corrosive to parts, it foams in the radiator, and it gunks up most tubing. I would not use this product, and I suggest that no rotary driver should.

On the Pettit thread it was recommended by Moon Assad to use Engine Ice as coolant additive. I haven't checked the papers on this out yet, so I'll take his word for it as of now; he's a knowledgeable guy.

Finally, I realized I might get a little flamed for this. But I think it's necessary for the community to know so they can more accurately weigh the pros and cons of this product. In my opinion, it's evil stuff. I wish I could find that engineering paper I had. It was a study conducted by Mechanical Engineers here at West Point, so I feel like it's pretty valid. They did extensive testing on the stuff. But, all I have for proof are those two links I posted above. If anyone has anything further to say about Redline Oil WaterWetter, please share!

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

I have never been a fan of waterwetter. I like evans NPG+ http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm

Flashwing

Very interesting! I hope that nobody flames you as there really has not been a lot of research into the claims that Redline makes about their products. I admit that I have not tried Royal Purple Ice despite BHR carrying royal purple products. This post has convinced me to give the ice a shot to see if I notice any differences.

I've used the watter wetter for the exact thing mentioned above which was to eliminate hot spots though I had assumed that hot spots could occur in any area of the cooling system and not just specific spots.

Also, using watter wetter with distilled provided a lubricant to the water which kept the parts of the cooling system well oiled.

My advice is to make sure to use a small amount of anti-freeze to ensure you've got proper lubrication.

I'll be reading through the reports. Good find!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I tried both before (WW and Ice)

and to be honest with you guys I dont really see any difference between the 2. Purple Ice DID a "tiny bit" better job than WW.

Pepboys is the only place carries Royal Purple Ice and its like 15 bux each ... to me thats not really worth it. WW cost about 8-9 bux. Nah

Maybe if I have some extra money I'll think about it.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I've used WaterWetter and the only difference I could see was a thick brown scum formed in the water overflow bottle.

After a couple of months the brown had stained the waterbottle plastic, so I flushed and refilled with glycol/water and the scum never came back....weird.

Flashwing

That is one of the nasty side effects is the brownish color of the water tank.

With as much as that stuff costs, having only a small impact on the cooling system really doesn't make it worth it.

It's been quite a while since I ran without it. I'm inclined to give it a go and see what happens.

rx8cited

Red Line Oil's WatterWetter Tech Info document

I'd like to see that other paper if you find it.

I used WaterWetter in my RX8, but could not see any difference with my stock gauge. Around 57k miles my water pump or water pump gasket failed .

I don't know if this failure was related to Water Wetter or not, but I've decided not to use Water Wetter in my car again, and replaced my reservoir when my water pump / gasket failed because the coolant level sensor in the reservoir had failed several months prior.

I also experienced the brown scum in the coolant reservoir as reported by others.

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

Right now, I'm sticking to what works. Distilled water and some coolant and antifreeze, because I'm too lazy to flush the system and put in just water and coolant... I know I'll need the antifreeze this winter so whatever. Isn't hurting anything in there...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, Now I remember, I got those stuff too! (when I had ww in there)

I was like "someone **** in the water bottle or something ?argh ... "

Then I flush it out 2 times with distilled water (and maybe 1/4 gallon of coolant to lube), and its gone.


57K sounds about right. seen a lot of pumps/gasket fail around that number, mostly 60K or so.



I will get ICE again this week (if I can make it to pepboys without being killed by pollens ...) , flush the cooling system (10 gallons of distilled water should be enough), then start with 50/50 + ICE and see what happens. Im doing it again because I dont recall any brown-ish stuff when I had ICE in there. just wanted to be sure.

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

I love how Red Line's own document doesn't support their advertised 30 C improvement in temperature. Looks more like 2 or 3 degrees on their chart... You'd be lucky to get in actual testing. There was no decrease in temp in that review I posted and I remember the engineering paper say the improvement was .2 degrees or something like that.

Also, all of the crap is pretty irrelevant, especially the coefficient of WW with RUBBER... really? I'm starting to think based on their own work that the frictional improvements of water and WaterWetter in the coolant system is slim to none. That was not covered in my mysterious paper so I cannot confirm this. This is simply a hunch based on my own experience in Physics and Thermo Fluid Dynamics.

rx8cited

You might enjoy this
Water Wetter infomercial by Red Line Oil which states "WaterWetter reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30ºF."

From that infomercial:
202F with WW + water vs 228F with 50/50 = 26F delta which is still not 30F unless I missed something.

Jasonawojo

iTrader: (2)

Definitely some interesting points. I used WW prior to flushing the coolant a few months back. Never did add it back, but maybe I'll try ICE this time. I'm interested to see what other responses this brings up.

lshu

Hmm this news is a bit disturbing to me, since I've been using WW about about 30K miles now. So far I haven't noticed any brown gunk in the overflow bottle but I'll keep an eye on it.

teknics

not to jump on a whole different topic but personally i think coolant "hot spots" may happen more on rotaries, think about how hard it is to "burp" rotaries (ok so its not "hard" but it takes more time then most motors). I'm not saying the coolant doesnt flow, I just feel like the coolant "pockets" itself in parts of the motor more-so on the 13b.

i dont have any evidence either way, just seeing if anyone else does

kevin.

endowdly

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, the more you think about it, you have to remember a rotary burns hotter. Even if there are three different rotor faces per cycle compared to the one pistol head per cycle, olddragger reminded me still that every face is in combustion stage every 270 degrees versus 90 in a piston. The even heat dissipation I thought existed with a rotary doesn't since the faces change doesn't really exist due to the rapid rotations. Just to add to Kevin's post...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

thats oil's job (to cool the rotors)

Hmm, didnt have a chance to get ICE today. see if I can get it tomorrow.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

courier is an awful font and is very hard to read.

rx8cited

It's courier new, but I agree - it's tough on the my eyes.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Times new roman ftw ?

onefatsurfer

I'd imagine this crap would void your warranty too...

Razz1

ahh... from what I read it really doesn't help that much and people recomened to use Evan in place of it.

It appears it could be marketing hype. .2 degrees 2 degrees now 20 degrees

I thought we had two hot spots.

1) near the spark plugs
2) near the mainfold?

Brown foam, probably coming from the rubber hoses.

teknics

verdana FTW.

jsjjr

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, I'm glad I saw this thread.. I was going to stop and get some this weekend. Not anymore.

Gdawg522

I'm going to be getting Engine Ice for my coolant swap this summer. I'll keep you guys posted. They claim an average decrease in temp of around 17-25 degrees F compared to 50/50 coolant. We'll see

quazmosis

iTrader: (2)

I think I'll stop using it as well. I've only used one bottle so far.