I found something I thought people might like to see. I thought I might just illustrate and see who could guess first: What's odd here? RG is not allowed in this test .

Paul.

 

un-drilled 3rd oil injection port

 

hmmmm.... what about this bit? the bump circled in white

 

so we can buy new housings and fit a 3rd port ?

 

Zoom beat us to it.
Not sure what the little bit is at the base of what used to be the exhaust port.
But it also has a larger casting around the water port for the intake manifold. Not used anymore though.

 

I don't think it is a third oil injector - it's too far into the compression zone.

Might be a direct injection port for high pressure fuel injection....

S

 

That Zoom is a sharpy. Sharp sharp cat! I saw this a few weeks ago and was like: "Wait a second, that wasn't always there".

Paul.

 

Yes sir. I believe that to be the case. I can do them at $615 per housing.

Paul.

 

hmm -if i wasn't a million miles away ........

 

It's actually even further away than the standard metering nozzle positions from the compression zone.

Paul.

 

Ha ha! I've sent many a part to your side of the universe.

Paul.

 

every time i see the blocked peri-exhaust port i cry a little.

kevin.

 

Do you have a side picture of it Paul. I would like to see how it looks in the coolant passage.
It looks to be in relation to the intake port on the side housing.
If you have an end plate (I know you do) you should put them together and see it's relationship to the intake port. Maybe throw a rotor and E shaft in there and see how it all lines up.
In your spare time of course.

 

i think i like where this thread is going...

 

So ... if it is ... then ... ?

ARe we gonna get another 20 hp from it ?

 

Here is an illustration of the oil metering system for 09.

Paul.

 

That's cool to know, that it should be possible to drill and tap and run the additional injector.

BUT..

you could have 5 injectors per housing and it wouldn't do any good because you don't have an OMP to feed the extra lines.

And even if you did somehow rig up an OMP to tee out into extra lines, it still wouldnt do you any good because it won't deliver the additional flow required to feed the extra lines.

The fact that the 04-08 engines only have 2 lines is only part of the problem. The other part is that they do not seem to inject ENOUGH oil into those 2 lines. I for one know that my rx8 burns NO oil, and the ones I have seen do not seem to either. A few people claim theirs burns oil.

The point is, without a way to control and feed oil to the extra ports, it would be useless.

I'd like to see someone come up with an aftermarket controller for the OMP...that still keeps the stock computer happy as well. There would be REAL good money in that, too bad we don't seem to have many electrical engineers on the job...and no one has ever been able to decipher the 89-95 rx7 e-OMP either.

 

with a flash you could fill the housings with oil if you wanted to... but yes it is more complicated that just adding the injector..

 

I can say I go through more then a quart in a thousand miles with my current OMP map on my AccessPort flash. The oil metering pump can be adjucted in "steps" (the stroke of the pump) from 0-60 steps on a load vs rpm map. Stock map at idle is 3 steps and it works its way up to maxing out right near 8000 rpms if i remember correctly. My map idles at 6 and works its way to 60 steps in a shorter time period.

I could argue that for the same "protection" the 2 oil nozzle system provides, you could get the same from 3 nozzles with even less oil flow because of it being more evenly distributed.

 

Maybe someone can figure a system out that taps into the throttle thats connected to a motor feeding nothing but premix ?

but project like this only works on extreme ppl. I have a new Reman motor. it might have this updated housing, but Im not going to take it all apart, drill it, and put it all back together. Just no reason for it. I rather just put premix into my tank every fill up.

 

These can now be ordered directly from our website....http://mazmart.com/ItemDetail.aspx?id=526

Sheldon.

 

an OMP injection timing modifier would be a fairly simple construction...

few inputs and a pulse 12v set on a variable rate based on the input conditions.

i could probably whip something rough up if there's actual interest. Personally I despise the OMP system so I never looked at trying to improve it. It could be made fairly straight forward with a "tuning" **** that wouldnt allow it to go below stock, i could even buy the rectangle blanks to make it blend in as a stock piece. damn now the wheels are turning, ive already go too much to do lol.

As for adopting a "standalone" OMP type system feeding from a reservoir, obviously done before and fairly well...thinking about OMP motors tho you theoretically could install an "inline" pump to increase volume of spray. With the above wiring mod you'd already be accessing the OMP system. The check valves in the injectors operate based on the line pressure, so you could turn on the OMP to fill the volume of the inline pump almost like extra switched on storage, then at the appropriate time you trigger the OMP and your inline pump and you release twice the volume at the same or preferably higher pressures, check valves in injectors stay open until pressure dissipates (the injectors are in dire need of a redo, theyre somewhat insulting to the word injector)

on a random side note, never noticed filters inside the old OMP injectors, 09's have filters in the injectors, believe it's fine wire mesh....but there's no warning system for a plugged injector. The only time a warning would occur is if either both center nozzles or all 4 of the side nozzles clog at once, since the only monitor is higher then avg pressure which would only pass the spec threshold if there's was more then one nozzle clogged, imho.

wow really rambled. but as i said i never considered aftermarket fixes for the OMP, i basically just consider the OMP a failure and move on .

kevin.

 

While we are on this topic, I've always wondered - is the flow rate of the oil nozzles dependent on the viscosity and/or pressure of the oil?

Sorry for the thread drift, and if there is another thread that covers this, please be kind and redirect me...

 

The OMP and injectors in reality are relatively basic, the actual pumping of the oil is complicated sorta but the way the system works is quick.

Pressure is relatively unmonitored in the OMP system. (clarification: pressure within the OMP lines is relatively unmonitored, only a switch within the OMP which monitors pressures near the OMP itself knows the output pressure) Which seems odd because the pressure is what makes the system work.

The oil injector contains a check valve inside of it. The OMP is connected via the lines obviously. When specific conditions are met based on rpm, temps, and other sensor inputs the OMP is "pulsed" with battery power. Every time the OMP sees 12V the internal pump system basically rotates moving oil into the lines. This is controlled by the stepper motor which decides how much rotation occurs, but we'll skip that part of the system as it doesnt really pertain to the question. When injection of the oil is requested, generally requested a little *before* it is actually wanted inside the motor, the pump starts going and building pressure between the injectors and the pump. Once the pressure reaches spec the check valve within the injector opens and allows straight flow of the oil in the lines as well as any oil still being pumped by the OMP. The OMP is then requested to be off, generally just a little before it is actually wanted off, and the pressure and volume slowly falls, once past its threshold the check valve within the injector is no longer "forced" open by the pressure and closes, turning off injection.

here's mazda's words:
Now can viscosity effect this system. Theoretically yes, I've never witnessed nor performed a test but in straight theory viscosity is defined as "resistance to flow" the higher the viscosity the more resistant it is to flowing. This resistance to flow *could* effectively throw off the "timing" of the OMP system (remember what i said before, the OMP is generally requested ON and OFF *BEFORE* it the action is actually needed as to let pressure build and/or bleed off, it is most likely in mS but it's still measurable by scientific method and is therefore a factor that must be considered)

Something to keep in mind, and a reason i dislike the OMP, oil viscosity during use within the motor is almost always changing measurably. An oil actually loses viscosity over time due to molecular level breakdown (main cause is fuel contamination). However, as anyone whos been overdue for an oil change will tell you, old oil tends to be thick, the oil viscosity is also effected by the products of combustion contaminating the oil as well as other factors. This back and forth of thinning and thickening makes the actual motor oil viscosity harder to predict/rate as the oil ages.

Actual oil pressure within the motor is irrelevant *most* likely since the OMP builds it's own pressure. But i could be overlooking something there, higher viscosity oil generally results in higher pressures so the OMP would be producing higher oil pressures unknowingly causing earlier and later closing of the injectors which could be enough to offset the effect of the flow rate of the different viscosity, essentially balancing the effects.

cliffs note: the effect of oil viscosity and pressure on the OMP *system* is debatable to a degree.

kevin.

 

There is no sensor that measures any sort of pressure to the OMP......

The sensor only tells the ECU where the stepper motor position is.....nothing else