Single Oil Cooler
11-22-2009, 07:04 PM
#30
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
What a bitch this has been but as a first and custom setup I was expecting problems. First off, push lock fittings and hose are great but put the hose on the fitting first and get extra fittings! Lessons learned.
We are not done yet so my car is parked in grungepups's garage at the moment because after we got everything buttoned up it we figured out the passenger side fog light hits the return hose so I have to get some 90 degree turn downs and I may have to trim a little but the car is running great.
I can already tell you that this setup kicks the **** out of the factory setup. My oil heated up to 180 degrees in half the time it usually takes and this was at idle with a few revs to work out some leaks. at 175-180 the thermostat opened and almost immediately cooled the oil down to 165 degrees and held at that temp. Overall everything is great, just gotta get my front bumper back on and get some real data. My only worry at this point is that it will cool the oil too much in the winter but I won't know until I get up to speed in cold weather.
More pics when finished.
We are not done yet so my car is parked in grungepups's garage at the moment because after we got everything buttoned up it we figured out the passenger side fog light hits the return hose so I have to get some 90 degree turn downs and I may have to trim a little but the car is running great.
I can already tell you that this setup kicks the **** out of the factory setup. My oil heated up to 180 degrees in half the time it usually takes and this was at idle with a few revs to work out some leaks. at 175-180 the thermostat opened and almost immediately cooled the oil down to 165 degrees and held at that temp. Overall everything is great, just gotta get my front bumper back on and get some real data. My only worry at this point is that it will cool the oil too much in the winter but I won't know until I get up to speed in cold weather.
More pics when finished.
11-22-2009, 07:25 PM
#32
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Thanks, the fit is perfect except the left return nipple was actually relocated there. If it were where it was originally on the back it would be perfect. I bid on another one on Ebay for cheap and it has the feed and return on the rear where Fluidyne originally put it.
11-22-2009, 08:09 PM
#33
Super Moderator
GREAT work there 9K!
Is it possibly you could fabricate a 'blocker' that you sit over part of the front of the Oil Cooler for Winter?, to restrict Cold Air Flow?
Obviously you want easy access, perhaps you could take all the measurements and work it out now on "How to Attach" a weather blocker while you have it all exposed...??
My only worry at this point is that it will cool the oil too much in the winter but I won't know until I get up to speed in cold weather
Obviously you want easy access, perhaps you could take all the measurements and work it out now on "How to Attach" a weather blocker while you have it all exposed...??
11-22-2009, 08:27 PM
#35
The thermostat he installed restricts flow to the oil cooler and returns it back to the engine without going through the cooler... once the temp gets to 180 then it opens and allows for free flow (also at which point we found some of the leaks)
side note, i dunno if it is a combination of everything he has installed to date or just he cooler, but the idle on this car is very smooth and quiet, if it wasnt for the midpipe you wouldnt be able to tell it was on. It has been a very good learning exp, this will deff be something i plan to do in the future
side note, i dunno if it is a combination of everything he has installed to date or just he cooler, but the idle on this car is very smooth and quiet, if it wasnt for the midpipe you wouldnt be able to tell it was on. It has been a very good learning exp, this will deff be something i plan to do in the future
11-22-2009, 08:28 PM
#36
GREAT work there 9K!
Is it possibly you could fabricate a 'blocker' that you sit over part of the front of the Oil Cooler for Winter?, to restrict Cold Air Flow?
Obviously you want easy access, perhaps you could take all the measurements and work it out now on "How to Attach" a weather blocker while you have it all exposed...??
Is it possibly you could fabricate a 'blocker' that you sit over part of the front of the Oil Cooler for Winter?, to restrict Cold Air Flow?
Obviously you want easy access, perhaps you could take all the measurements and work it out now on "How to Attach" a weather blocker while you have it all exposed...??
11-22-2009, 10:21 PM
#41
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
mscamp,
The total project has cost me about $200.00 but I got a deal on the cooler (cheap) and I went expensive on the fittings and Hose (all JIC fittings and Parker Push-Lock hose). At first I was iffy about hose that just pushes on the fitting but Grungepup can attest that by no means is it ever coming off short of a razor blade being used to cut it off.
If you used heater hose or something off the shelf and store bought fittings this could be accomplished very cheap. Not sure how the cheap hose would hold up over time. The Taylor hose I bought is for hydraulics and designed to be exposed to the elements.
8maniac,
We mounted the rear the same way but Autotragic and Grungepup were able to bend and drill the brackets they made to fill the gap and mount very solid. Honestly the front was so sturdy the rear was not really needed but now it is on there for good.
OD,
The return hose hits the fog light on the passenger side so hopefully with a 90 pointing toward the engine, it will be enough space to clear the fog. If not the fogs come out for now. The fast warm up is great and basically it routes oil back to the engine until it reaches 180 (actually more like 175 according to my gauge). But this was all on jack stand so I will get some real world data this week.
We are not done yet but the hard part is over and we learned a lot and I am happy to be the Guinia pig!
The total project has cost me about $200.00 but I got a deal on the cooler (cheap) and I went expensive on the fittings and Hose (all JIC fittings and Parker Push-Lock hose). At first I was iffy about hose that just pushes on the fitting but Grungepup can attest that by no means is it ever coming off short of a razor blade being used to cut it off.
If you used heater hose or something off the shelf and store bought fittings this could be accomplished very cheap. Not sure how the cheap hose would hold up over time. The Taylor hose I bought is for hydraulics and designed to be exposed to the elements.
8maniac,
We mounted the rear the same way but Autotragic and Grungepup were able to bend and drill the brackets they made to fill the gap and mount very solid. Honestly the front was so sturdy the rear was not really needed but now it is on there for good.
OD,
The return hose hits the fog light on the passenger side so hopefully with a 90 pointing toward the engine, it will be enough space to clear the fog. If not the fogs come out for now. The fast warm up is great and basically it routes oil back to the engine until it reaches 180 (actually more like 175 according to my gauge). But this was all on jack stand so I will get some real world data this week.
We are not done yet but the hard part is over and we learned a lot and I am happy to be the Guinia pig!
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 11-23-2009 at 09:46 AM.
11-23-2009, 12:12 AM
#42
Looks Great in person! Should work well~!
However there is one thing I am not understanding and I know it is something that you and I had talked about. Your coolant bypass. So I know it has a Bypass that stays closed till the oil reaches a certain temperature then it opens IE a coolant thermostat. I am almost sure the stock oil cooler system has a bypass on each cooler....
If said idea about the stock coolers is true then and in my mind that means that when the oil reaches a stock oil cooler thermostat calibrated set temp the #1 oil cooler thermostat opens and oil is cooled in it the #1 cooler then......> the oil passes onto the next cooler and if still at a high enough temp the #2 oil cooler will open its thermostat and continue cooling the oil........ if what I stated is true it should in theory be a perfect two staged oil cooling system. With staged cooling a thermal bypass on each unit and a much larger total area when combined.
Ok okay so now for what I really don't think I am understanding correctly. Pleas halp.
I under stand the limitations of the stock coolers and agree that they are fairly inadequate at high thermal loads to properly cool the oil and maintain a acceptable level of heat at any given time/load. However your finding astounds me! It sounds like your car is taking half as long to warm up the oil now! How can that be? Each stock cooler should have a thermostat on board. If you look on the bottom its the part that stick out a bit. I know I have seen pictures! Would Mazda really make the stock oil thermostats open at a crazy low temp? Were yours broken? Am I crazy.... (For those that know me don't answer that question in regards to my personalty k thanks!) Is my head not completely wrapped around this concept and I am missing something?
However there is one thing I am not understanding and I know it is something that you and I had talked about. Your coolant bypass. So I know it has a Bypass that stays closed till the oil reaches a certain temperature then it opens IE a coolant thermostat. I am almost sure the stock oil cooler system has a bypass on each cooler....
If said idea about the stock coolers is true then and in my mind that means that when the oil reaches a stock oil cooler thermostat calibrated set temp the #1 oil cooler thermostat opens and oil is cooled in it the #1 cooler then......> the oil passes onto the next cooler and if still at a high enough temp the #2 oil cooler will open its thermostat and continue cooling the oil........ if what I stated is true it should in theory be a perfect two staged oil cooling system. With staged cooling a thermal bypass on each unit and a much larger total area when combined.
Ok okay so now for what I really don't think I am understanding correctly. Pleas halp.
I under stand the limitations of the stock coolers and agree that they are fairly inadequate at high thermal loads to properly cool the oil and maintain a acceptable level of heat at any given time/load. However your finding astounds me! It sounds like your car is taking half as long to warm up the oil now! How can that be? Each stock cooler should have a thermostat on board. If you look on the bottom its the part that stick out a bit. I know I have seen pictures! Would Mazda really make the stock oil thermostats open at a crazy low temp? Were yours broken? Am I crazy.... (For those that know me don't answer that question in regards to my personalty k thanks!) Is my head not completely wrapped around this concept and I am missing something?
11-23-2009, 12:23 AM
#43
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
The problem is that the stock coolers thermostats are flow control thermostats. Don't quote me on the technical details but basically they always allow about 50% oil flow to both coolers regardless of the temp and then at a set temperature (170F or so I think) the thermostats open up completely to 100% flow.
The thermostat I have blocks 90% of the flow until the temperature reaches 180F. it allows very little oil to flow through but the oil from the feed line follows the path of least resistance back to the engine until the thermostat gets to 180F and then it opens and all of the oil flows to the cooler (now the path of least resistance).
So, the result is the engine oil gets heated up quickly since it routes in an out of the hot engine until it reaches 180F. I know you are aware of most of what I posted in this post but just in case someone else has not read up on this stuff yet.
The thermostat I have blocks 90% of the flow until the temperature reaches 180F. it allows very little oil to flow through but the oil from the feed line follows the path of least resistance back to the engine until the thermostat gets to 180F and then it opens and all of the oil flows to the cooler (now the path of least resistance).
So, the result is the engine oil gets heated up quickly since it routes in an out of the hot engine until it reaches 180F. I know you are aware of most of what I posted in this post but just in case someone else has not read up on this stuff yet.
11-23-2009, 12:43 AM
#44
Well Thank you for the enlightenment. Cost savings by mazda Rocks! However It may also have something to do with and as was said before the Oil "shock" of vastly differnt temps? The Poor closing thermostats may be a function of mazda trying to control this "shock" factor.
Ok I want to add to my former statement about the the stock mazda coolers being perfect! If the thermostats were of different temps and closed fully then yes my friends Perfect! IE the first one opened at 160 the next at 200.
9k I dont remember ever reading anywhere that they did not open or close anywhere nearly that poorly.
Dose anyone know for a Fact that the stock oil coolers only close so far? Also dose anyone have any sort of hard evidence that the coolers thermostats do not open at different temps?
Ok I want to add to my former statement about the the stock mazda coolers being perfect! If the thermostats were of different temps and closed fully then yes my friends Perfect! IE the first one opened at 160 the next at 200.
9k I dont remember ever reading anywhere that they did not open or close anywhere nearly that poorly.
Dose anyone know for a Fact that the stock oil coolers only close so far? Also dose anyone have any sort of hard evidence that the coolers thermostats do not open at different temps?
11-23-2009, 08:48 AM
#45
the coolers do not open at different times. There is only onecontrol flow thermostat that is my opinion doesnt work very well. there is no bypass back to the engine from the 1st (drivers side) oil cooler. This would be need if the sencond cooler opened at a different time.
I am liking this single oil coller---await more findings in driving.
If I may suggest--keep an eye on the coolant temps as well--they need to warm up approx at the same time and settle together to the normal temps you usually have.
Warming the oil up faster may allow the coolant to warm faster also.
OD
I am liking this single oil coller---await more findings in driving.
If I may suggest--keep an eye on the coolant temps as well--they need to warm up approx at the same time and settle together to the normal temps you usually have.
Warming the oil up faster may allow the coolant to warm faster also.
OD
11-23-2009, 09:45 AM
#46
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
I will keep that in mind OD and I will be monitoring RPM, Coolant Temp, Oil Temp, Air Intake Temp, and outside Ambient temp on my table. I will post up data ASAP. I just picked up a 90 fitting to clear the fog light and some extra Parker Push-Lock hose.
11-23-2009, 12:37 PM
#49
yeah, with all the problems we have had with the rubber hoses, I don't even want to imagine what they would be like with the stainless, unless they were smaller and already precut
edit:
if we still have a problem with the coupler hitting the foglight, we could make something like this for both sides and relocate the light to opposite corner
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda...t/60-1066.html
edit:
if we still have a problem with the coupler hitting the foglight, we could make something like this for both sides and relocate the light to opposite corner
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda...t/60-1066.html
Last edited by Grungepup; 11-23-2009 at 01:37 PM.