9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hmmm, so what role does the ECU play in oil delivery and control of those injectors?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Hasnt the oil pan and the internal oil flow been changed somewhat due to the reposition of the oil filter and new omp system etc?
I understand the clearances and internal parts are the same.
OD

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I need to correct myself---I now dont think the S2 engine can be used in the S1 car as easy as I 1st though. No where to mount the S1 omp and I dont even think the front plate can be interchanged?
The S2 omp oil nipples are different and the S2 omp operates them under pressure(7-8 psi or so), unlike the S1's.
Sorry for any hope confusion I may have caused.
Course you could always premix?

Razz1

umm... let me see..........

1920 units sold 2008
1920 units sold 2009
750 units sold 2010

x20% =1147 potentical customers on the forum that may or may not have a problem

half of those may have 40k miles

So your sample of series II is very small

There's well over 100k sold on the first series.

Any comparaison is not valid unless done under specific controlled condtions.

There are not enough series II sold to make the claim it is so much more relable.

The reason I say "so much more" is, one needs to see a significant reliablity increase.

ASH8

The ECU Controls ALL the Oil Injection from the 2 EMOP's..in S2

Not sure what you are going to do about your SOHN Adapter so you can use "fresh oil" for metering??..how are you going to do that?

The Front Housing is all new in S2, the Oil is supplied direct from Oil Pump , then to OCV Oil Control Valve which is internal/external on top of front timing housing, then to EMOP's.

Remember the OCV and Oil Pressure Switch/Sensor on one EMOP are also ECU controlled.

Unless you swap out everything, including dash I can see you getting many CELS and warning lamp issues...

Other things off the top of my head...
Both rotors now have knock sensors..
Power steering module and rack have changed...ECU issues??..
Yaw Senors have changed....ECU issues ???

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well............... Any good news?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The good news is that this thread received the RE-t@rded stamp of approval

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Okay, so if we swap the motor, harness, ecu, and cluster. Not sure about the yaw sensors or rack but by that time a new rack might be a good idea in there are no mounting issues. So I guess Richard Won't be developing a SOHN adapter for the S2.

ASH8

How can he?, there is NO resemblance between the two systems. S2 as I have said previously is completely different in Oil Delivery, Oil is supplied Directly from Engine Oil Pump via the OCV to two external EMOP's that sit on top of rotary engine. Even the 6 Oil Nozzles are a different Design and Unit.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I mean create a whole new adapter. I need a visual. Off to find pictures.........

ASH8

Jeez mate this has been done to death before...

Sorry I don't have a color pic...hope this will do..

Oil from OIL Pump goes to OCV Valve (see ontop of front Cover), the OCV is basically an oil distribution and
soleoid device (the exact same part is used in some Mazda Banger engines) to supply oil to the two EMOP's
and for cleaning mode of Oil Tubes.

Oil goes to the two EMOP's (#1 EMOP has the only Engine Oil Pressure Sensor on it), one does 4 injectors the
other does 2 injectors, from there a Oil Return Hose goes straight into the Oil Filler pipe back down to oil pan.

The engines OIL Pump maintains Oil pressure inside the EMOP's Chambers between 7 and 20 PSI.

So basically, I really do not know how any adapter can be fitted without serious CEL issues as this is all controlled by ECU (PCM).

But one never knows..

I guess for those who want to have an external (clean supply of 2 stroke oil) tank would have to pressurize oil and
supply to the two EMOP's somehow and also blank off the OCV location.??

What does one do about the OCV Solenoid wiring if you remove and Blank the Valve off, would it cause a CEL??..
there is a diagnostic code for it...do you want me to find it?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Just intercept the OCV with a pump operating off its own reservoir.

ASH8

How do you stop any CEL's, or Trouble Codes?

There is no AP for S2's..

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Why would there be a CEL?
The EMOPs will see the same oil flow, its just coming from somewhere else.
Use a pressure accumulator and a low-pressure oil pump.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ The risk of failure would outweigh any benefits of being able to use two stroke oil IMO

ASH8

New Codes for S2 Oil Metering, Not Applicable to Series 1.

P0522 Oil pressure sensor low input
P0523 Oil pressure sensor high input
P1680 OCV circuit low input*
P1681 OCV circuit high input*
P1682 Metering oil pump No.1 circuit low input*
P1683 Metering oil pump No.1 circuit high input*
P1684 Metering oil pump oil pressure sensor –oil pressure is low*
P1685 Metering oil pump oil pressure sensor –oil pressure is high*

* Dash Oil level warning light flashes

P0522 Oil pressure sensor low input
�� The voltage of oil pressure sensor input terminal is less than 0.2 V for 0.5 s or more.
P0523 Oil pressure sensor high input
�� The voltage of oil pressure sensor input terminal is more than 4.8 V for 0.5 s or more.
P1680 OCV circuit low input
�� The PCM monitors input voltage from the OCV. If the voltage of the OCV input terminal is less than the
specification for 1 s when the battery voltage is more than 10 V, the PCM determines the OCV circuit voltage
is low.
P1681 OCV circuit high input
�� The PCM monitors input voltage from the OCV. If the OCV current is more than 3.5 A for 2 s when the battery
voltage is more than 10 V, the PCM determines the OCV circuit has a malfunction.
P1682 Metering oil pump No.1 circuit low input
�� The PCM monitors the input voltage from the metering oil pump No.1 when the battery voltage is more than 8
V and the metering oil pump No.1 control signal turned from ON to OFF. If the input voltage is less than the
specification, the PCM determines that the metering oil pump No.1 circuit has a malfunction.
P1683 Metering oil pump No.1 circuit high input
�� The PCM monitors the input voltage from the metering oil pump No.1 when the battery voltage is more than 8
V and the metering oil pump No.1 control signal turned from ON to OFF. If the input voltage is more than the
specification, the PCM determines that the metering oil pump No.1 circuit has a malfunction.
P1684 Metering oil pump oil pressure sensor–oil pressure is low
�� It is that the oil pressure at the metering oil pump system is less than 40 kPa {0.41 kgf/cm2, 5.8 psi} continues
for 10 s, after specified period passes after the engine starts.
P1685 Metering oil pump oil pressure sensor–oil pressure is high
�� It is that the oil pressure at the metering oil pump system is more than 180 kPa {1.84 kgf/cm2, 26.1 psi}
continues for 10 s, after specified period passes after the engine starts.
P1686 Metering oil pump No.2 circuit low input
�� The PCM monitors the input voltage from the metering oil pump No.2 when the battery voltage is more than 8
V and the metering oil pump No.2 control signal turned from ON to OFF. If the input voltage is less than the
specification, the PCM determines that the metering oil pump No.2 circuit has a malfunction.
P1687 Metering oil pump No.2 circuit high input
�� The PCM monitors the input voltage from the metering oil pump No.2 when the battery voltage is more than 8
V and the metering oil pump No.2 control signal turned from OFF to ON. If the input voltage is more than the
specification, the PCM determines that the metering oil pump No.2 circuit has a malfunction.

ASH8

So I guess if you can fool the PCM when removing the OCV so it does not see a Low or High Voltage.
AND you can maintain Oil Pressure between 7 an 24 PSI (about) with a "new" external 2 stroke oil supply, then you won't have any CEL's or warning lights flashing..

WHY EVEN BOTHER...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

^^ So, we set up our accumulator for 20 PSI.

And what, exactly, would we be facing as a failure mode? Its not a particularly complicated thing I'm proposing - certainly no more complicated than the Sohn adapter in it interface and the current system in its implementation.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would bother.

Just do your next "S1" rebuild with "S2" housings (that's all that's available anymore, anyway) and service the three nozzles with the "S1" OMP with a splitter.

Are there really any other "benefits" to the "S2" design?

ASH8

^^ You left off the OCV removal and it's circuit

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't remove it. It just wouldn't be doing anything effectively.

ASH8

AHH...BULLSHIT!!

S1 and S2 Rotor Housing are separately available and do not supersede from S1 to S2.
According to 2 on-line US Genuine Mazda Dealer Parts Suppliers.

N3H1-10-B10C Series 1 R Housing $703.39
N3R1-10-B10 Series 2 R Housing $776.30

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You missed my point.

You can't get S1 housings right now because there was a stop-work order. They are only milling S2 housings. The only S1 housings are whatever is already in the retail chain.

ASH8

Stop work order...what a load of BS..

You said they are Not available 'Anymore' which is incorrect..again.

Firstly if Mazda did supersede the housings they would supply as part of the super-session a blanking plug for each housing (if they are used on a standard S1).

Second, I am not 100% positive the S2 (N3R1) housings have the same thread type/side to take the S1 Nozzles, as the S2 nozzles are totally different and the only thing the same is the crush washer, so one would assume the internal thread in housing is the same and the oil hole in the housing is the same.

But you know what they say about assuming.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It is. It's pretty annoying.
We've been trying to get them over here, but they haven't made any since October of last year (October 17th, to be exact).
Even Walthall is dry.

Anymore. Meaning any more.
Should they start to make them again for some reason, then "anymore" wont be valid at that time. Until then...

Plus, I don't see why you keep using the word "supersede". I don't think it means what you think it means.
The new part number didn't "supersede" the old one, it is just the next iteration. The old part number is still valid. There just aren't any more of that part available.

ASH8

I don't see why you continue to talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about..so you own an RX-8..your first one, and you are on your 4th engine, and??

Supersede means "to take place of", the Series 2 rotor housings DO NOT Supersede or 'to take place of" the Series 1 as you suggest or think you know.

If the old part number is still valid...it is still in USE as a replacement part, just because it MAY be out of stock and on back order with the factory MMC (Japan) where they are made, does not mean that the part has been replaced by another, in this case the Series 2 Rotor Housings YOU Think for some reason in YOUR MIND will be the replacement...or "next iteration".

Anyway..I have had my Fun with you..