Karack

the goopy seals are wider than stock to take up for worn out seal slots specifically.

they are only marginally wider than stock and the slots can be filed by hand to clearance them to the wider seals.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

And they're available in the shorter height for renesis applications as well? I only saw older ones on the sites I saw them for sale.

And a wider seal without re-paralleling the groove sides won't provide too well of a seal it would seem.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

EDIT: Phone double post power!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

it's good to see someone around here for a change with a working head on their shoulders ...

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

This is why I was looking at milling them out to 3mm, because just going to a slightly oversized 2mm won't solve the issues with the rotor.

I still don't know how this is going to be handled... has anyone tried cold working the grooves back straight?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

don't think so, the tips are already harden at factory, but I guess that didn't work out so well for MSP Rotors.

if I were u, I will just mill them for 3mm and call it a day, and it can be done for couple hundred bux, professionally.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

Hmmmm, I suppose that might be the plan at this point, although there is no reason we can't get it done locally instead of shelling out the money to ship them off and a rotary shop to take care of it.

Thanks for the input guys!

j9fd3s

maybe the rotors are just too far gone to save? it is possible for a wear part to be worn out...

yes, you hit it with a hammer. the rotors are in the scheme of things soft, so they bend. if your rotors have the grooves really badly Veed then they also probably aren't triangular anymore either.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

It is possible they are too bad to be saved, although saying a rotor is a wear item is like saying that a piston is a wear item, which is a bit of a stretch.

And as far as the cold working goes, we were considering something more along the lines of jigging it up and using a press to make sure things stay even.

j9fd3s

pistons ARE a wear item. the sides get scuffed from rubbing up against the cylinder wall, and piston to wall clearance gets to be out of spec.

also the pistons wear in the same way a rotor does, the piston ring lands get Veed.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

In the same way that a block/crank/rod/any other part of an engine is a wear item... It's not like these are 60k mile service check boxes(well in the case of the RENESIS it would seem rotors are). It's one of those things that shouldn't be THE point of initial failure in a motor.

j9fd3s

true, its a "when you have the engine apart"

the WRX engines had a spell where they were breaking piston ring lands, even stock cars were failing, it was really bad

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

I thought they were still having a bit of an issue with that to date, good thing you can swap them without any bottom end work on those motors. My point was just that rotors/pistons shouldn't be something that falls into the same category as even piston rings/rotor seals.

Karack

of course they do, they have to slide and compress so there will always be wear in the channel.

j9fd3s

i don't really know if they still have problems, we used to have TONS of WRX's running around, but they all blew up and the dealership can't fix em, so they have all disappeared.

FazdaRX_8

iTrader: (1)

goopy has over-sized rx7 (deeper) seals mill the rotors parallel(wider) and deeper to spec with the over-sized rx7 seals, and your done.

its what I did.....

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

Glad to here someone has managed to do it, did you take measurements on the seals before doing the milling so they would be correct to begin with? Also, do you mind sharing the width of the oversized seals so that I can measure the grooves in these rotors to make sure they aren't too far gone for that method to work?

FazdaRX_8

iTrader: (1)

call the guys at goopy they will gladly talk to you about there products and give you some insight

MaciekP

Roflcopter,
Ive got the same problem and Im thinking about the same - deeper rx8 2mm slots to get 3mm apex.
Did you finally did it?

My problem:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...o-wide-253508/

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

finally??? it was done at least 7 years ago if not earlier, was poo-poo'd for years after first mentioning it on the forum as a solution

there's a post on here where I use a fence post as an example of why it works

installing thicker seals into sloppy grooves is just kidding yourself for whoever does it, so I'm glads it's their money & effort rather than mine



.

MaciekP

Yeap its here for quite a long time but nobody shares their info about cut rotor reliability.
If rotor is factory hardened at apexes (and I bet it is) the enlarging process cuts out part/all? of this harder part so Im afraid if in a year or so there will be V shape slot again

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

For the RX7 seals the slot is made deeper, not wider

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aft...8/#post3900082

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

if it's still 2mm, then it's just deeper

if it's older 3mm style, then its deeper AND wider.

if I gotta go 3mm one day, first thing I do is get ceramic apex, the higher compression spring alone will help to make up the sealing lost for using 3mm, as for the rotor groove, yes it's harden at the factory, no one knows sure if milling it to 3mm would remove it's reliability, it's probably not the end of the world, you can always get a harden treatment or something like WRC treatment.

roflcopter

iTrader: (2)

The plan was never to just install thicker seals into the 'V'-d out grooves, it was to cut them to the proper width for a 3mm seal, along with making them perfectly parallel again.

We actually did end up doing this to his motor... long story short we have an MSP motor with rotors that have grooves cut to 3mm width with the stock height, then we ordered Atkins 3mm apex seals and cut them to the stock height for an MSP 2mm seal and matched the profile on the bottom to accept 3mm single apex springs instead of the dual setup the MSP uses. We also took some Atkins MSP solid corner seals and cut them wider to fit the 3mm seals as well.

The motor did not make good compression after being rebuilt in this configuration, although I don't think it's a direct cause of these modifications. The obvious issue it had to begin with blinded us to any other possible issues and it will come apart and get fully clearanced and we'll know why it's not making compression now. My money is on step wear on the irons, there was some you could feel. We also just trusted the shop to have everything cut properly and didn't bother with measuring the tolerances before assembly, and some of the apex's seemed a tad tight so maybe that is contributing as well.

It will be coming back out and looked through again eventually though, too many other projects currently on the table to both with that one right now.

FazdaRX_8

iTrader: (1)

Although I don't drive a lot, I have had the Deeper Goopy seals in my rx8 for almost a year, all boosted, mostly drive it around town with boost and highway commute to work sometimes, I also took it on a 400mile round trip to a meet.

car is running great! It pulls good vacuum about (15inhg) on the gauge but I believe its more because the gauge rests above 0. idle is smooth.