Ignorant ?? I was sharing my "personal" experience, if I wanted information on how to take 12 months to install a turbo system and still not have it running correctly, I'd ask you. I suggest you coat your neck with vaseline, grab your shoulders and pull hard, you may pull your head out of your ****, doubtful though.

 

 

Well i don't have any proof that premix works, except some engine tear downs of premixed and non premixed units...

This is an example of a friend of mine: Premixed Renesis Teardown (With Pics))

 

The only thing I noticed was the last 5k miles or so I was misfiring when the engine was cold. No cell, but you could feel the engine running ruff till it warmed up.

 

lol @ second link from searching google takes you too a 5,000,000,000 page premix fight with no answers over years, and you consider that problem solved ???

 

Thanks for replying.
Interesting.
Adds to the debate for sure.

Now the question may be, does premix contribute to misfiring by fouling plugs, thereby causing possible
cat or engine damage?

Let the debate continue.
Like the Tootsie pop question,
The world may never know.
(Old fart reference)

 

I will add that when I got my car, the reman in it had 36k miles, and it already had compression numbers in the low 7s. I drove for about 7k miles several of my faces dropped into the high 6s at that point. After another 3k, it had dropped even lower, 2 faces were in the mid 6s. I started premixing and the numbers stopped dropping (at least as quickly anyway). Not saying it's the reason, but sure looks like it. I did do a few seafoam treatments, but I doubt that would really have made my numbers stop dropping


"Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?"
"Let's find out. 1-2-3...CRUNCH" (and the renesis blows an apex seal)

That's very interesting indeed, but don't these engines misfire some when cold anyway, even without premix, because they run so rich?

Chill out man, no point on hating on people who are just trying to help. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are "ignorant" or "have zero wrench-time". Enough with the retarded generalizations

 

I agree, and that is my point, the engine is flawed from an engineering stand point and premixing has not proven to do anything beneficial. And I have never seen any test results from Mazda anywhere about premixing. Just because it was beneficial in a Le mans car 20 years ago doesn't really have anything to do with the series I Renesis.

, That's all you got fruity? You still didn't explain what you think the rattle was and how premix eliminated it. Oh and you mean 12 months to install a custom turbo, new engine, custom oil cooler setup, secondary radiator setup, etc., etc. etc., etc.

Yeah , and that engine still died at under 50,000 miles so what did premixing do for it?

No one will ever know my friend.

 

Good thing you don't do custom installs for a living

I agree with you 100% on your earlier argument. There's no verifiable data - at least not in a scientific fashion - that can show the correlation between pre-mixing and extended engine life in normal, street-driven vehicles.

On race engines? Well...that's a different argument all together based on the type of engine I suppose, and how they are built. My neighbor has a non-street legal 1st Gen RX7 that only uses premix for racing. Totally different animal than a renesis for sure.

Having said that...I happen to premix rather consistently... even with the lack of scientific evidence to support the use of it. But I don't make the case for it one way or the other as some people here do.

 

Yeah I am never in a hurry and my RX-8 is never finished and is in a constant state of build most of the time. And by the time I get close to finishing I will just blow it up again so..........

For race engines is a completely different scenario all together. I do know the heavy premix idea was applied in addition to relocating the OMP and blocking it off and that did not work out well on the Renesis. I am not against premix, I just think people should be realistic about it and others should not state certain things as fact if they really have no clue what they are talking about. At the end of the day, for every well maintained engine that lasted to 100k there is an engine that was treated like **** that lasted to 100k.

There are countless variables as to why engines fail and I am sure Mazda knows for the most part, what the main failure mode for the S1 engines is but they sure are not talking about it. So all you have to go on IMO, is to look at the changes made to the S2. Some of those changes can be applied to an S1 but like NYCGPS stated, there is nothing you can do about the physical differences between the engines.

 

fwiw, the third oil injector in the S2 does nothing more than help equalize temperatures across the apex seal since the S1 had a higher delta temp between the outside and the inside of the apex seal. This helped to even out the wear, but its purpose is to allow for even expansion of the apex seal under heat.

Still doesn't address the two common causes of rotary engine failures: bearing failure and side seal failure

 

Right, the oil injectors serve more than one purpose, people just get caught up on the lubrication side of it. Bearing failure is not really a common failure mode though, but side seal failure is, and this is where the changes to the S2 become more important IMO.

 

Hahaha...true. Mods never end! If they did, then it would be boring and nothing would be learned or discovered in the process.

It is interesting than when the literature came out promoting the 2009-2011 RX-8s, pretty much nothing was mentioned about the changes in the engine. The focus was all on cosmetic and suspension upgrades. Clearly, Mazda did not want to talk openly about the changes they made to the engine, perhaps avoiding recognizing openly what the physical issues with the S1 engines were.

I had question for you. On your most recent engine - the one that Rob from Pineapple racing built for you -, what made you decide to go for another S1 project to begin with? You had already gone through two prior engines. Did you explore the possibility of getting a Series2 and boost it instead?

I do know there's more aftermarket support to boost the S1s, plus reliability and boosting often don't go together regardless anyway. But provided that the S2s seem more reliable so far based on the changes Mazda made, I wonder if they would make great platforms for modification as it relates to reliability.

Just wondering.....

 

right i mean compared to apex seal related failures.

 

Aside from the common notion of 'rotary engine's aren`t as reliable as their piston counterparts' , consider that side exhaust (non-peripheral) rotaries like the renesis will not be as reliable as their peripheral exhaust counterparts.

 

Yeah they obviously made a decision to not talk about the S1 engine debacle.

Putting an S2 engine in an S1 is just not realistic from a practical stand point. So many things would need to be changed it just doesn't make sense. But now that tuning is an option on the S2 I am excited to see who will be the first here to pull the trigger on turbocharging or supercharging an S2.

When this one blows I am not sure if I will go with an REW swap or just take everything (including the turbo kit) I can off of my 04' and put it on an 09'+.

I have been looking and the prices are crazy. I found an immaculate one owner CWP 09' 6 speed Touring with only 7,000 miles on it for $16,999.00.

 

I see. That makes sense.

I paid more than that for my 08' with 13,000 miles almost two years ago I would go with an S2 without a doubt.

What I meant to ask was if you had considered just getting an S2 and go from there - as opposed to building yours. I can only imagine how impractical it would be trying to fit an S2 engine into an S1 shell.

Also, if improvements in lubrication from the added injector(s) is not a big determining factor, then that would add to the whole debate of premixing in the S2 models. I imagine some S2 owners are premixing as well.

 

Yeah if I get an S2 I would be able to swap over just about everything. I think those who premix on an S2 mostly just do it just because it makes them feel better or because others suggest it on the S1. Like Teamrx8 says, "monkey see, monkey do". We all do that in one way or another I think, I know I am guilty of having done that but I am trying to not do that again, it is just not a good idea. I don't see any benefit and the S2's still have some failing cat issues (especially tracked cars) from time to time so I would vote no on premix.

But honestly 99% of the S2 owners I have met generally have no clue about the specific mechanical changes on the S2, they just know they have a reputation for being more reliable.

 

a Mazda reman is like a box of chocolates ...

 

I guess I am guilty of the "I premix because it makes me feel better"


Hahahahaha!

Never know what you gonna get! LOL

YOu missed the first part of that statement where he says "my momma always said..." or something like that.

Best movie ever

 

one test i would like to see done is the temperatures of the side seals / corner seals / side plates on a premixed engine vs non. If I had to guess, I would say that the temperatures on the premixed engines are a bit cooler due to there being less friction between the two surfaces. Now does that help increase reliability? who knows, but it is one less thing to be concerned about, especially when tracking.

 

Are you referring to the measuring of temperatures in those parts independently from the rest of the engine? If yes, that would be quite a difficult thing to do. Perhaps I am not reading your statement correctly.

 

Yeah, that is not going to happen but if it were possible it would be cool to know if premix did anything at all for cooling or lubrciation. And keep in mind that 2 stroke oil varies just as much as four cylce oil does. There are many formulations and they are designed with very different purposes. What works for outboard engine is not ideal for a snow mobile engine that revs over 6,000RPM.

 

Wow that is one clean Renny, Motul hey..a great product.
Pity about a Side Seal letting go @ 75,000 KMS.

A "good 2 stroke" IS the jam.

Obviously have a good ratio to fuel is also necessary.

Also a SOHN MOP adapter used.

In the interest of cross forum promotion I hope G does not mind me posting a pic here (expanded).

 

Yea i agree with you both that it would be impossible to get that data, but theoretically it should hold true that the temperatures would be cooler on the premixed engine. Fuel does not make a good lubricant so you can expect that the side seals would see an increased temperature compared to one that is premixed.

Again, let me say that I completely agree that A. hard to prove, B. its effect on longevity is not easily estimated.