Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory?
01-12-2011, 11:40 AM
#51
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
I agree, they are probably ok to 100k physically but who knows when my actually clogged and stopped delivering oil. Also if only one or two of the injectors or lines clog or fail, you likely won't notice it unless you really pay attention to your oil consumption.
I know from NYCGPS in my other thread that odula makes a heat shield for the OMP. Not sure if it protects the lines much. the lines run right across the housings so they see some serious heat.
I know from NYCGPS in my other thread that odula makes a heat shield for the OMP. Not sure if it protects the lines much. the lines run right across the housings so they see some serious heat.
01-12-2011, 12:02 PM
#52
I don't see how you could protect or shield these lines from the heat the engine puts off. These line are tight up against the housing. I was afraid to pull on them all that much because they were so rigid. Another reason I disconnected them from the omp when installing the Sohn adapter. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is not enough space to insulate the stock lines being how they are situated. However, if you were able to fabricate your own you could route them away from the engine and insulate them.
01-12-2011, 01:35 PM
#53
Ayrton Senna Forever
just put some heat shield stuff between them and the engine---they can get real hot next to the alternator also.
The oil nozzles have a check valve in them---that is why I was wondering why the heck were there check valves in the banjo fitting to?
I really dont understand how it works. The omp does not put that much pressure on the oil it pumps.
Also to open the banjo fitting check valve I had to push back toward the omp. To tell the truth I didnt check it pushing toward the oil nozzle.
Again why is there a vacuum line to the nozzle? Maybe it is to ensure quick closing of the oil nozzle? But should the oil nozzle ever be complety closed?
What happens if you remove the vacuum there?
What would happen if you removed the banjo fitting check valve?
This is getting really interesting.
It may be better to totally premix?
The oil nozzles have a check valve in them---that is why I was wondering why the heck were there check valves in the banjo fitting to?
I really dont understand how it works. The omp does not put that much pressure on the oil it pumps.
Also to open the banjo fitting check valve I had to push back toward the omp. To tell the truth I didnt check it pushing toward the oil nozzle.
Again why is there a vacuum line to the nozzle? Maybe it is to ensure quick closing of the oil nozzle? But should the oil nozzle ever be complety closed?
What happens if you remove the vacuum there?
What would happen if you removed the banjo fitting check valve?
This is getting really interesting.
It may be better to totally premix?
That is not vacuum line, that is barometric pressure line (before throttle).
The oil nozzle receives the barometric pressure from the air hose to prevent the negative pressure from the engine being applied to the oil inlet. Also, a one-way check valve has been adopted to prevent oil from flowing out of the air hose side when the engine is under positive pressure. (copyright by Mazda)
Anyway I'm happy with my OMP, until I have my first engine. I believe that the frequently changed 0w-30, the higher oil flow (shimmed regs, single cooler system) partly solved the longevity problems. The more oil spray inside the rotors better cool down the seals for example. Don't break my confidence in the OMP-nozzle team!
Last edited by ayrton012; 01-12-2011 at 01:37 PM.
01-12-2011, 02:09 PM
#54
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
I too have had higher oil pressure from my mazmart mod and my single oil cooler conversion and I believe it helps with longevity but you definitley need to monitor your oil consumption to assure the lines and oil injectors are functioning normally.
01-12-2011, 02:20 PM
#55
I'm not trying to pick on 9K, but I do wonder if extended idling in a hot climate on a fully warmed up engine can lead to clogged lines.
Think about it. When the engine is up to temperature, the ECU lowers the oil delivery while idling to nearly zero. Thus, the flow rate in the OMP lines is very low, and the oil in the lines could get very hot, perhaps leaving deposits behind, particularly when the oil isn't pristine & clean.
I seem to recall that there is a perceived correlation between cars driven in hot climates in stop-and-go driving (think rush hour on freeways in large cities & southern climates) and engine failures. This would be consistent with the above theory, but it's just a theory.
Think about it. When the engine is up to temperature, the ECU lowers the oil delivery while idling to nearly zero. Thus, the flow rate in the OMP lines is very low, and the oil in the lines could get very hot, perhaps leaving deposits behind, particularly when the oil isn't pristine & clean.
I seem to recall that there is a perceived correlation between cars driven in hot climates in stop-and-go driving (think rush hour on freeways in large cities & southern climates) and engine failures. This would be consistent with the above theory, but it's just a theory.
Last edited by GeorgeH; 01-12-2011 at 02:35 PM.
01-12-2011, 02:58 PM
#56
I will have to disagree. That is a vacuum hose to the omp nozzles. Any hose attached to the intake be it before or after the TB is a vacuum hose.
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
01-12-2011, 03:32 PM
#57
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Pick on me all you want 
.
I do allow my car to idle each morning until almost fully warmed up. But keep in mind that with my single oil cooler and oil pressure mod, that happens in much less time than an RX8 running stock coolers and oil pressure. I do this so I can row through the gears and get the oil fully up to temp before I get to work. I drive hard to work (no traffic, all access roads) and I think that is great for the car. Some days I go to the bank and run errands before work and on those days I just let the coolant get to 150 and then I slowly drive around until the oil thermostat opens at around 173-175F.
. I do allow my car to idle each morning until almost fully warmed up. But keep in mind that with my single oil cooler and oil pressure mod, that happens in much less time than an RX8 running stock coolers and oil pressure. I do this so I can row through the gears and get the oil fully up to temp before I get to work. I drive hard to work (no traffic, all access roads) and I think that is great for the car. Some days I go to the bank and run errands before work and on those days I just let the coolant get to 150 and then I slowly drive around until the oil thermostat opens at around 173-175F.
01-12-2011, 03:41 PM
#58
) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
01-12-2011, 05:33 PM
#61
9krpmrx8 not to get off topic but how hard is the install on the mazmart mod on a scale of 1 - 10. For instance I would rate the Sohn install at maybe a 6 or 7. (For goons with larger hands like myself ) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!then I guess the oil pressure regulator will be a 9-10 to you.
cuz u need to take the pan away to install it. cuz its a 2 part deal, the rear regulator and shim the front bypass.
01-12-2011, 05:38 PM
#62
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
I could see how dirty engine oil could cause build up possibly leading to clogged lines so this is yet another benefit you would get from running the SOHN and nice clean 2 stroke.
And yes, the SOHN installation is easy. 1/4" rachet with extensions and you are done in 30 minutes at most if you don't take Call of Duty breaks like me every 15 minutes that is. The mazmart OP kit is easy but time consuming (scraping the old RTV off is a bitch).
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 01-12-2011 at 05:43 PM.
01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
#63
9krpmrx8 not to get off topic but how hard is the install on the mazmart mod on a scale of 1 - 10. For instance I would rate the Sohn install at maybe a 6 or 7. (For goons with larger hands like myself ) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!Looks to be an easy job!
01-12-2011, 06:15 PM
#64
9krpmrx8 explained it to me. The only reason I rated the Sohn install as a 6 to 7 is I removed it by accessing it from the top and the passenger side wheel well. It was very tight. I couldn't wear my tech gloves so my hands got torn up. Removing the oil pan from the underside of the car and replacing an exposed oil regulator sounds alot easier to me. At least 9krpmrx8 made it sound easy. I guess time will tell. I ordered the mazmart kit tonight. I won't be installing it for a while being I just changed my oil last week before putting the car away for the Winter.
01-12-2011, 06:18 PM
#65
I've searched around for a diy for installing the SOHN and couldn't find one on this site. I did, however, find one at Rotary Insider
Looks to be an easy job!
Looks to be an easy job!
01-12-2011, 07:03 PM
#66
In reference to the question on the oil gumming up because of heat, oil flows more smoothly as its heated. But I do like your thinking. On the SOHN adapter you are using fresh oil only the entire time, BUT on the stock system your using dirty oil. Oil that already has carbon and combustion by product. So there is a possibility that your leaving behind deposits from oil thats already been cycled over and over.
01-12-2011, 10:40 PM
#68
Super Moderator
PLEASE get it right..is it a Metering Oil Pump, that is MOP, not OMP, Oil does not Meter the Pump..
01-12-2011, 11:01 PM
#70
OMP - Oil Metering Pump
Learn the use of the progressive participle.
The oil is metered, not the pump.
And before you all get in a tizzy about it being the "MOP" in the FSM, just think about all the other Engrish grammatical errors in the FSM.
Learn the use of the progressive participle.
The oil is metered, not the pump.
And before you all get in a tizzy about it being the "MOP" in the FSM, just think about all the other Engrish grammatical errors in the FSM.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-12-2011 at 11:04 PM.
01-13-2011, 12:01 AM
#71
Super Moderator
01-13-2011, 02:23 AM
#72
Ayrton Senna Forever
I will have to disagree. That is a vacuum hose to the omp nozzles. Any hose attached to the intake be it before or after the TB is a vacuum hose.
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
01-13-2011, 04:33 AM
#73
Sydney, Australia
Well the replacement lines aren't that expensive - what we need now is a DIY...
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...t-p-17186.html
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...r-p-17890.html
This would be a good midlife upgrade in conjunction with a seafoaming I should imagine.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...t-p-17186.html
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...r-p-17890.html
This would be a good midlife upgrade in conjunction with a seafoaming I should imagine.
Last edited by SARRAS; 01-13-2011 at 04:36 AM.
01-13-2011, 07:42 AM
#74
01-13-2011, 08:23 AM
#75
I still disagree Ayrton-- dont forget that there are also other lines that come from that site that are used as vacuum lines--the one to the sump/oil filler pipe for instance. The airflow is the same before the TB as it is behind the TB also.
Its a small thing anyway. I was just trying to understand out that system works exactly, but I gave up. I am just going to premix as if i dont have a mop/omp and keep a close watch on my plugs. Relying on the mop is too risky for me.
Its a small thing anyway. I was just trying to understand out that system works exactly, but I gave up. I am just going to premix as if i dont have a mop/omp and keep a close watch on my plugs. Relying on the mop is too risky for me.