Notices
Series I Tech Garage The place to discuss anything technical about the RX-8 that doesn't fit into any of the categories below.

Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory?

Old 01-12-2011, 11:40 AM
  #51  
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,744
Received 347 Likes on 279 Posts
I agree, they are probably ok to 100k physically but who knows when my actually clogged and stopped delivering oil. Also if only one or two of the injectors or lines clog or fail, you likely won't notice it unless you really pay attention to your oil consumption.

I know from NYCGPS in my other thread that odula makes a heat shield for the OMP. Not sure if it protects the lines much. the lines run right across the housings so they see some serious heat.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:02 PM
  #52  
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I don't see how you could protect or shield these lines from the heat the engine puts off. These line are tight up against the housing. I was afraid to pull on them all that much because they were so rigid. Another reason I disconnected them from the omp when installing the Sohn adapter. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is not enough space to insulate the stock lines being how they are situated. However, if you were able to fabricate your own you could route them away from the engine and insulate them.
terch1 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:35 PM
  #53  
Ayrton Senna Forever
 
ayrton012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by olddragger View Post
just put some heat shield stuff between them and the engine---they can get real hot next to the alternator also.
The oil nozzles have a check valve in them---that is why I was wondering why the heck were there check valves in the banjo fitting to?
I really dont understand how it works. The omp does not put that much pressure on the oil it pumps.
Also to open the banjo fitting check valve I had to push back toward the omp. To tell the truth I didnt check it pushing toward the oil nozzle.
Again why is there a vacuum line to the nozzle? Maybe it is to ensure quick closing of the oil nozzle? But should the oil nozzle ever be complety closed?
What happens if you remove the vacuum there?
What would happen if you removed the banjo fitting check valve?

This is getting really interesting.
It may be better to totally premix?

That is not vacuum line, that is barometric pressure line (before throttle).

The oil nozzle receives the barometric pressure from the air hose to prevent the negative pressure from the engine being applied to the oil inlet. Also, a one-way check valve has been adopted to prevent oil from flowing out of the air hose side when the engine is under positive pressure. (copyright by Mazda)

Anyway I'm happy with my OMP, until I have my first engine. I believe that the frequently changed 0w-30, the higher oil flow (shimmed regs, single cooler system) partly solved the longevity problems. The more oil spray inside the rotors better cool down the seals for example. Don't break my confidence in the OMP-nozzle team!

Last edited by ayrton012; 01-12-2011 at 01:37 PM.
ayrton012 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:09 PM
  #54  
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,744
Received 347 Likes on 279 Posts
I too have had higher oil pressure from my mazmart mod and my single oil cooler conversion and I believe it helps with longevity but you definitley need to monitor your oil consumption to assure the lines and oil injectors are functioning normally.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:20 PM
  #55  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not trying to pick on 9K, but I do wonder if extended idling in a hot climate on a fully warmed up engine can lead to clogged lines.

Think about it. When the engine is up to temperature, the ECU lowers the oil delivery while idling to nearly zero. Thus, the flow rate in the OMP lines is very low, and the oil in the lines could get very hot, perhaps leaving deposits behind, particularly when the oil isn't pristine & clean.

I seem to recall that there is a perceived correlation between cars driven in hot climates in stop-and-go driving (think rush hour on freeways in large cities & southern climates) and engine failures. This would be consistent with the above theory, but it's just a theory.

Last edited by GeorgeH; 01-12-2011 at 02:35 PM.
GeorgeH is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:58 PM
  #56  
Registered
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: macon, georgia
Posts: 10,771
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
I will have to disagree. That is a vacuum hose to the omp nozzles. Any hose attached to the intake be it before or after the TB is a vacuum hose.
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
olddragger is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:32 PM
  #57  
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,744
Received 347 Likes on 279 Posts
Pick on me all you want .

I do allow my car to idle each morning until almost fully warmed up. But keep in mind that with my single oil cooler and oil pressure mod, that happens in much less time than an RX8 running stock coolers and oil pressure. I do this so I can row through the gears and get the oil fully up to temp before I get to work. I drive hard to work (no traffic, all access roads) and I think that is great for the car. Some days I go to the bank and run errands before work and on those days I just let the coolant get to 150 and then I slowly drive around until the oil thermostat opens at around 173-175F.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:41 PM
  #58  
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I too have had higher oil pressure from my mazmart mod and my single oil cooler conversion and I believe it helps with longevity but you definitley need to monitor your oil consumption to assure the lines and oil injectors are functioning normally.
9krpmrx8 not to get off topic but how hard is the install on the mazmart mod on a scale of 1 - 10. For instance I would rate the Sohn install at maybe a 6 or 7. (For goons with larger hands like myself ) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
terch1 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:49 PM
  #59  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
But keep in mind that with my single oil cooler and oil pressure mod, that happens in much less time than an RX8 running stock coolers and oil pressure.
Yes, but your first two engines did not have the single oil cooler.

Either way, the question stands - will extended idling in hot conditions result in buildup within the delivery lines?
GeorgeH is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 05:30 PM
  #60  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by olddragger View Post
I will have to disagree. That is a vacuum hose to the omp nozzles. Any hose attached to the intake be it before or after the TB is a vacuum hose.
Incorrect. It is an atmo reference.
If you have vacuum before your throttle body, you have an unacceptable restriction.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 05:33 PM
  #61  
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
 
nycgps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 19,867
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by terch1 View Post
9krpmrx8 not to get off topic but how hard is the install on the mazmart mod on a scale of 1 - 10. For instance I would rate the Sohn install at maybe a 6 or 7. (For goons with larger hands like myself ) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
if u rate Sohn adapter as 6-7

then I guess the oil pressure regulator will be a 9-10 to you.

cuz u need to take the pan away to install it. cuz its a 2 part deal, the rear regulator and shim the front bypass.
nycgps is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 05:38 PM
  #62  
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,744
Received 347 Likes on 279 Posts
TX

Originally Posted by GeorgeH View Post
Yes, but your first two engines did not have the single oil cooler.

Either way, the question stands - will extended idling in hot conditions result in buildup within the delivery lines?
Yeah but In the first two engines I did not idle like that, I had a 70 mile round trip ride to work and back so unless it was cold (rare), I would let her idle for a minute or two and then make the mile drive to the highway and head to work (35 miles or so).

I could see how dirty engine oil could cause build up possibly leading to clogged lines so this is yet another benefit you would get from running the SOHN and nice clean 2 stroke.

And yes, the SOHN installation is easy. 1/4" rachet with extensions and you are done in 30 minutes at most if you don't take Call of Duty breaks like me every 15 minutes that is. The mazmart OP kit is easy but time consuming (scraping the old RTV off is a bitch).

Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 01-12-2011 at 05:43 PM.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
  #63  
Time for boost...
iTrader: (24)
 
RX8Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,414
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by terch1 View Post
9krpmrx8 not to get off topic but how hard is the install on the mazmart mod on a scale of 1 - 10. For instance I would rate the Sohn install at maybe a 6 or 7. (For goons with larger hands like myself ) I agree that the more oil the better. Especially since I only take my 8 out to beat the **** out of it!
I've searched around for a diy for installing the SOHN and couldn't find one on this site. I did, however, find one at Rotary Insider
Looks to be an easy job!
RX8Soldier is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:15 PM
  #64  
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by nycgps View Post
if u rate Sohn adapter as 6-7

then I guess the oil pressure regulator will be a 9-10 to you.

cuz u need to take the pan away to install it. cuz its a 2 part deal, the rear regulator and shim the front bypass.
9krpmrx8 explained it to me. The only reason I rated the Sohn install as a 6 to 7 is I removed it by accessing it from the top and the passenger side wheel well. It was very tight. I couldn't wear my tech gloves so my hands got torn up. Removing the oil pan from the underside of the car and replacing an exposed oil regulator sounds alot easier to me. At least 9krpmrx8 made it sound easy. I guess time will tell. I ordered the mazmart kit tonight. I won't be installing it for a while being I just changed my oil last week before putting the car away for the Winter.
terch1 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:18 PM
  #65  
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by RX8Soldier View Post
I've searched around for a diy for installing the SOHN and couldn't find one on this site. I did, however, find one at Rotary Insider
Looks to be an easy job!
Give it a try. It sounded easy to me too. Honestly its a tight fit especially when reinstalling the omp with the Sohn adaptor. Alot of things look easy until you attempt them.
terch1 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM
  #66  
I drive at Red Line.
iTrader: (1)
 
DocBeech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
In reference to the question on the oil gumming up because of heat, oil flows more smoothly as its heated. But I do like your thinking. On the SOHN adapter you are using fresh oil only the entire time, BUT on the stock system your using dirty oil. Oil that already has carbon and combustion by product. So there is a possibility that your leaving behind deposits from oil thats already been cycled over and over.
DocBeech is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:06 PM
  #67  
Registered
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: macon, georgia
Posts: 10,771
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
im just going to pre mix and be done with it.
Too much "stuff".
But real good thread and I think on many accounts the op is right.
OD
olddragger is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:40 PM
  #68  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,624
Received 157 Likes on 114 Posts
PLEASE get it right..is it a Metering Oil Pump, that is MOP, not OMP, Oil does not Meter the Pump..
ASH8 is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:56 PM
  #69  
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
 
nycgps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 19,867
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
OMP

I was talking about Oh My Pump ! what have u been thinking ASH ?
nycgps is offline  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:01 PM
  #70  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
OMP - Oil Metering Pump

Learn the use of the progressive participle.

The oil is metered, not the pump.

And before you all get in a tizzy about it being the "MOP" in the FSM, just think about all the other Engrish grammatical errors in the FSM.

Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-12-2011 at 11:04 PM.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:01 AM
  #71  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,624
Received 157 Likes on 114 Posts
Originally Posted by nycgps View Post
OMP

I was talking about Oh My Pump ! what have u been thinking ASH ?
Too much water around!..

MOP has been the official term used by the maker before most on here were even born, but you yanks know it all......
ASH8 is offline  
Old 01-13-2011, 02:23 AM
  #72  
Ayrton Senna Forever
 
ayrton012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by olddragger View Post
I will have to disagree. That is a vacuum hose to the omp nozzles. Any hose attached to the intake be it before or after the TB is a vacuum hose.
I do hear what you are saying though. Does this mean that hose doesnt have to be attached to the intake? It just needs atmospheric pressure?
All this doesnt make sense to me. Two checks valves per nozzle, vaccum to the nozzle that has low pressure/flow already etc. To much for my old brain.
And then the S2 models dont have those check valves anymore, their omp pump pressure is higher and they dont have vaccum to the lines.
Maybe we can do without the checks valves in the lines and just open that vacuum line to atmosphere?
Believe us and Mazda, before the TB there are atmospheric pressure, or you have a very-very clogged air filter.
ayrton012 is offline  
Old 01-13-2011, 04:33 AM
  #73  
Sydney, Australia
 
SARRAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Well the replacement lines aren't that expensive - what we need now is a DIY...

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...t-p-17186.html

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...r-p-17890.html

This would be a good midlife upgrade in conjunction with a seafoaming I should imagine.

Last edited by SARRAS; 01-13-2011 at 04:36 AM.
SARRAS is offline  
Old 01-13-2011, 07:42 AM
  #74  
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
PLEASE get it right..is it a Metering Oil Pump, that is MOP, not OMP, Oil does not Meter the Pump..
Potatoes - Potatoes. Oh **** it doesn't work when you type it.
terch1 is offline  
Old 01-13-2011, 08:23 AM
  #75  
Registered
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: macon, georgia
Posts: 10,771
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
I still disagree Ayrton-- dont forget that there are also other lines that come from that site that are used as vacuum lines--the one to the sump/oil filler pipe for instance. The airflow is the same before the TB as it is behind the TB also.
Its a small thing anyway. I was just trying to understand out that system works exactly, but I gave up. I am just going to premix as if i dont have a mop/omp and keep a close watch on my plugs. Relying on the mop is too risky for me.
olddragger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.

Quick Reply: Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.