bse50

It's nice to see you posting again ayrton

ayrton012

Thanks Giorgio! Yes, usually I'm just reading instead of writing.
I won't forget about the european rotary site!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

anyone measuring oil temps coming from the engine ( not the oil pan), that is the one that is the most important.
If you have 220F oil temp after the coolers then it would stand for reason that your oil temps are actually too hot?
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I am not right now but I will be soon, I bought an adapter that has an NPT port in it that goes between the port from the oil pump and my oil feed line. But I have considered it when my oil temps are in the 220F range after the oil cooler during a hot day pushing her hard. The temp must be much hotter in the engine. luckily with my cooler the temps drop 15-20F almost instantly when I get on a straight. But it does make you think. My guess is the stock coolers are pretty efficient but I will know soon because I am putting the RB lines on a stock 8 soon and we will be measuring oil temps and oil pressure.

EricMeyer

Was the goal of this project to see higher PSI and better oil operating temps in hopes that bearing life would improve?

ayrton012

Yes, higher pressure builds up much lower in the rpm range, than before. The flow resistance of the new system is much less than the factory one. Now I can reach easily the peak pressure, not depend so much by the oil temperature, and don't need very high rpms like before. The section between the oil pump and the filter is way shorter and simplier and higher diametered. The average oil temps are 20F lower than before. ..and there are some weight saving too.

Anyway I even shimmed the regulators.

ASH8

Great to see all your work Ayrton, you have been relentless in experimenting and thinking it all through with great results..

Can I ask you for some info, just to clarify what I think.

On your Series 1, all your Oil Lines (Hoses) from engine are via a Banjo Fitting with single holed middle fixing Bolt, correct?, one on your front cover/housing and the other to the rear housing under oil filter neck, is this correct Ayrton.??

The reason I ask, (I don't have these parts yet), but my Series 2 has a much different coupling set up for in and out oil supply to Oil Coolers.

The Oil Out hose connector has a long straight metal tube with a 2 holed oval type flange or plate welded a few inches from this end of metal elbow pipe, now the metal pipe/hose slides in considerably through the front alloy timing cover and directly through a small black Oil Seal fixed on the engines alloy Oil Pump, once done it is secured by two nuts on the studs fixed to the front cover, from there Oil flows directly from Oil Pump to Oil Coolers.

The return or cooled Oil goes back to the front Timing Cover again (not rear), the hose is mounted again by two nuts on fixed studs, oil directly goes through Oil Filter, then splits to rear iron housing pipe then through e-shaft, bearings, rotors, etc and other feed out TOP of front iron/cover OCV and to EMOP's.

So to use S-Steel hoses on a Series 2 one would have to fabricate two two holed fixing plates (instead of banjo/bolt) for in and out hoses.

I guess this can be fabricated or purchased OK??

ayrton012

Hi, ASH! Yes you are correct, who can tell you any news about Mazda parts?

I make adapter screws instead of factory banjo screws allowing the use of the S steel hoses fitting (1.pic).


But it is not working on the S2, where are plates with welded steel hoses. I think you should have to cut off the plates from the factory Mazda pipes, and weld to the plates any fabricated male adaptors (BSP,AN...) for the s steel hoses female connectors. It is better to buy a set of Mazda pipes if you would like to use again the factory system ever in the future.

Here is a simply schematic drawings (second pic.):

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ok --what kind of oil temps are we seeing coming from the engine?

ayrton012

Good question. As the speed of the oil flow in the system is very-very high, I think there aren't so much differences between the in and out oil temp. 30F ????

PhillipM

I just cut two oval steel plates out, took a little bit off the nut on a hose adaptor in a lathe, and welded the oval adaptors to it.
Then turned down the other end to slide into the holes in the S2 block (with an o-ring groove in it to seal it)

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

30 degrees? Then we need better oil coolers?

ayrton012

Is 30F not enough? 230F out-200 in. That is not bad, I think.
If there would be higher differences than what about the cars with 220F IN oil temps? More than 250F OUT? (Synthetics oils are must have!!!)


Actually I don't know, somebody has to check it! Maybe the most easier way would be to use a laser temp tester, but I don't have that. Anybody?

ayrton012

Of course, you already did it to your S2 engine!

PhillipM

It's on the bench atm so I'll get a picture if I remember.

ayrton012

Here you will find interesting informations. On page 12 there are diagraphs of the temp drop in the cooler, and others:

http://www.thinkauto.com/plist010106gweb.pdf

ayrton012

Waiting for it!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for sharing Ayrton. That is a good site.
They mention approx a 20C drop from the cooler. Thats approx 45F?
So if us track folks are seeing 220F oil being returned from the cooler then the oil leaving the engine would be around 265F (guesstimate) ? Whoa----we need more actual data.
We may be on to something.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

This is something that has worried me OD, when I was pushing hard during a canyon run this summer (100 miles or so of hard corner carving) I would see oil temps around 220-230F (after the cooler) in the long sections of tight corners with no straights. So I was guesstimating that temps in the engine were much higher. This is why I agree with Dannobre that measuring in the pan or at the oil pump outlet where the oil is heat soaked is the best thing to do.

Although, I know my Mobil1 0W-40 is standing up well to these temps, I still worry about engine components because all I hear from builders is that heat needs to be managed.

ASH8

ME TOO!!..

Come on Phillip...get that camera out and take a bloody pick you lazy Pom!..

Still can't play Cricket, only because Australia was/is so bad, YOU are not that good!

PhillipM

The workshops 10 miles away and the daily driver has exploded, if you want a picture that badly feel free to come and take one you slackin ozzie.

ASH8

Weak excuse....only 10 miles!, sorry I forgot, you POMS have to pack a lunch to go that far!

Sorry to hear about your DD...







































not really..

ayrton012

20 Celsius is 36 Fahrenheit, if I'm not wrong. Do you think it means too much difference between IN-OUT oil's temp? Maybe not. 220F IN is not an average data, rather peak. But you are right, we need measured OUT temps.

PhillipM

So what's your excuse then? My cousin just came over from Perth to visit me for the new year, get yer bags packed and bring your camera.

sauceyI986

This is a very interesting thread. I plan to upgrade from my dual stock oil coolers with setrab 16 row oil coolers with -12 fittings. I see people wanted to maximize the oil system and make the car more reailable than before. I know you guys are trying to get oil pressure reading but I'm what how much difference of an oil pressure change would be when running with an oil loop line mod done on the engine and upgraded oil coolers. If it would drop it or increase pressure.