One more single oil coolered.
08-05-2010, 01:45 AM
#26
Ayrton Senna Forever
Thread Starter
08-11-2010, 11:11 AM
#27
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah before doing the Mazmart Oil pressure mod I was seeing 90psi or so from what I remember just from converting to the single oil cooler. Now I am seeing 140psi or so max. The factory system covers a lot or real estate and has many bends, etc.
08-13-2010, 09:46 AM
#28
Ayrton Senna Forever
Thread Starter
140 PSI ???!!! Is it safe? But if i think to the S2 max oil press, i have to say it is safe.
Do you know there is any S2 owners with oil pressure gauge? I'm courius what is the real max oil pressure in those engines?
Do you know there is any S2 owners with oil pressure gauge? I'm courius what is the real max oil pressure in those engines?
08-13-2010, 10:27 AM
#29
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah I have actually seen close to 150PSI. I do not know of any S2 guys here with an oil pressure gauge. The location of the oil filter eliminates the use of typical oil filter adapters so until someone does a remote oil filter location I don't think it will happen. It would be easy to do though with a fitting to the block where the oil returns to the engine from the cooler.
08-13-2010, 10:46 AM
#30
I'm confused here. The max oil pressure is regulated by the front and rear oil bypasses mounted to the bottom of the engine. Until these bypasses open (for stock that happens around 70 psi), the (displacement-type) oil pump moves a volume of oil that's entirely related to rpm. More rpm = more flow, no exceptions. If there were no resistance to that flow, there would be essentially zero oil pressure. There is resistance though. The higher the resistance for a given rpm, the higher the oil pressure at that rpm. Again, still assuming were're under the main bypass opening pressure, any observed increase in oil pressure implies more resistance in the system, not less. This increased pressure does not flow more oil as long as the bypasses are closed (<70 psi), nor does it flow any less. However what it does do, is cause the bypass to open earlier in the rpm range, and from that point on, the higher resistance system is flowing less oil. (By the same logic, switching from 20W to 50W oil will overall reduce the oil flow in the engine because the bypass opens sooner.)
So, by this argument, the single oil cooler is showing more resistance to flow, not less.
9krpm: Did you calibrate your oil pressure gauge carefully before installation? So far, I've only found one setup out of the four that I've tried that was accurate out-of-the-box. The max pressure with the stock oil system really can't be 90 psi unless something is wrong with the stock bypasses. With the stock system and a calibrated gauge, I was seeing 68-72 psi max and with the Mazmart mod around 120 psi.
So, by this argument, the single oil cooler is showing more resistance to flow, not less.
9krpm: Did you calibrate your oil pressure gauge carefully before installation? So far, I've only found one setup out of the four that I've tried that was accurate out-of-the-box. The max pressure with the stock oil system really can't be 90 psi unless something is wrong with the stock bypasses. With the stock system and a calibrated gauge, I was seeing 68-72 psi max and with the Mazmart mod around 120 psi.
Last edited by HiFlite999; 08-13-2010 at 11:02 AM.
08-13-2010, 10:50 AM
#31
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I did test my gauge prior to installation with a pressure tool my father has and it was only off about 3 psi. I should note that I also run the 09+ oil filter.
I am no expert, I can just post what my reading are. I have the Propsort Premium OP gauge. I have posted several logs and they were all pretty consistent both before and after the Mazmart mod with the single cooler.
I am no expert, I can just post what my reading are. I have the Propsort Premium OP gauge. I have posted several logs and they were all pretty consistent both before and after the Mazmart mod with the single cooler.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-13-2010 at 10:53 AM.
08-13-2010, 01:40 PM
#32
I did test my gauge prior to installation with a pressure tool my father has and it was only off about 3 psi. I should note that I also run the 09+ oil filter.
I am no expert, I can just post what my reading are. I have the Propsort Premium OP gauge. I have posted several logs and they were all pretty consistent both before and after the Mazmart mod with the single cooler.
I am no expert, I can just post what my reading are. I have the Propsort Premium OP gauge. I have posted several logs and they were all pretty consistent both before and after the Mazmart mod with the single cooler.
08-13-2010, 01:57 PM
#33
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Given an accurate gauge, the readings are what they are. I never tried a Series II with the stock bypasses, so I don't know what if any effect that would have on the measured pressure. Are you measuring the OP with an adapter plate under the filter? (I am.) Am wondering if tapping into the system where the stock pressure sensor is located would serve to give better information.
Yes, I am measuring from the filter adapter. I am however going to change up my setup a bit in terms on oil line location and switch to a EARL's oil thermostat which has two NPT ports built in for sensors. I will use one of those ports for oil pressure and one for temp.
08-13-2010, 04:34 PM
#34
Super Moderator
And Sorry I just DO NOT agree that having an OIL Cooler, Air Con Condenser and then a Radiator sandwiched together will not have Air Flow and Heat Issues with Coolant Temps...If it was such a great Idea why did Mazda not do this in the first place...would have saved them money..
Mazda have never placed an Oil Cooler in front of Condenser/Radiator in ANY Rotary..
But I guess the "experts (Mazda)" do not know what they are doing...
08-13-2010, 04:39 PM
#35
weeeeeeeeee
iTrader: (12)
Agree with Ash8... lotsa irony in this thread if you're a 4AT owner... I just installed my 2nd oil cooler where it's supposed to be and am as happy as a pig in mud with the improvement over "stock" 
08-13-2010, 04:56 PM
#36
Super Moderator
S2 OP Access
OK, just to repeat the S2 Oil Pressure access, this is where Mazda officially measures Oil Pressure in Rotaries and in S2's, as we know S1's have the Oil Filter adapter here.
So in S2's you remove the Hex grub screw (# in red), and yes you put an OP Gauge connection from here ..also S2 does not have an Internal Rear Engine By Pass Valve.
And Highflite is also on the money, I am pretty sure Mazda recommends to measure engine OIL Pressure by Removing OP Sensor/Switch.. (I do not have a S1 Factory manual).
So in S2's you remove the Hex grub screw (# in red), and yes you put an OP Gauge connection from here ..also S2 does not have an Internal Rear Engine By Pass Valve.
And Highflite is also on the money, I am pretty sure Mazda recommends to measure engine OIL Pressure by Removing OP Sensor/Switch.. (I do not have a S1 Factory manual).
08-13-2010, 04:56 PM
#37
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah, my oil cooler works great and I don't think it has a great effect on the coolant temps. But then again it is not "right" in front of the radiator. However, if I decide to do it all over I will use the the factory oil cooler location(s) in series. You would still benefit from a less restrictive system and have the increased volume and a real oil thermostat. Kind of like badrx8 did with his oil cooler setup.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-13-2010 at 04:58 PM.
08-13-2010, 04:58 PM
#38
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
OK, just to repeat the S2 Oil Pressure access, this is where Mazda officially measures Oil Pressure in Rotaries and in S2's, as we know S1's have the Oil Filter adapter here.
So in S2's you remove the Hex grub screw (# in red), and yes you put an OP Gauge connection from here ..also S2 does not have an Internal Rear Engine By Pass Valve.
And Highflite is also on the money, I am pretty sure Mazda recommends to measure engine OIL Pressure by Removing OP Sensor/Switch.. (I do not have a S1 Factory manual).
So in S2's you remove the Hex grub screw (# in red), and yes you put an OP Gauge connection from here ..also S2 does not have an Internal Rear Engine By Pass Valve.
And Highflite is also on the money, I am pretty sure Mazda recommends to measure engine OIL Pressure by Removing OP Sensor/Switch.. (I do not have a S1 Factory manual).
I wonder if i removed the OP switch and put a sending unit there if it would throw a CEL? It shouldn't but who knows. The gauge is useless anyway.
08-13-2010, 05:08 PM
#40
Super Moderator
08-13-2010, 05:18 PM
#42
Super Moderator
08-13-2010, 05:21 PM
#43
Firstly I modded the regulators ( like Mazmart ). The PSI numbers was higher after this mod, at least it reached the 50 PSI at 3000rpm, but usually between 176-194 F oil temp ("the OC thermostats are working"), the pressure hardly got higher than about 58 PSI, even at 6-7000 rpms. So this mod did not solve the problem, but definitely helped a lot.
We all knows that the factory oil cooling system is very restrictive against oil flow, so it decreases the pressure numbers. Anyway I did not thought that it is restrictive so much.
I'm not pretty sure how this mod is gonna help against a properly modified oil pressure regulator. With the one I got from Mazmart i see oil constant oil pressures above 6.5\7 bars, a tad less when cruising but still around that mark.
Anyway the cooling capacity of the stock oil radiators is enough for a street driven\track day NA car even during summer days provided that you have the wheel wells cut open and the pressure regulator installed.
With those mods, Mazmart's water pump and an emptied engine bay i keep forgetting to do cool down laps so i'm not really sure how an oil cooler conversion could change my situation!
08-13-2010, 05:30 PM
#44
Super Moderator
08-13-2010, 05:42 PM
#45
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I wonder how much that gauge cost........ I could cut a hole in the hood like the old hot rods and just watch oil pressure through the windsheild 
J/K
Seriously though it would be a cool tool to have.
J/KSeriously though it would be a cool tool to have.
08-13-2010, 05:46 PM
#46
Super Moderator
08-14-2010, 07:35 AM
#48
Hummm ... since the op switch is rather crude and doesn't need to be accurate, I wonder if it'd be best to move the switch sender to the adapter plate and the "real" op sender to its place directly on the engine. Any idea if the threads are compatible?
08-14-2010, 04:56 PM
#50
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Great Idea.
Yes, and thanks to you Dannobre, I found great place locally called Taylor hose that sells JIC fittings and Push Loc hose, and they can get just about everything else too. They dropped their prices significantly when I showed them how much I could save by buying online so I just gave them the business even though it was a bit more.