Oil - Technical
08-02-2008, 09:52 PM
#76
Hey guys. After reading all this info on oil my head is spinning, but if I even retain 10% of this stuff I'm way better off than I was before.
If I might give some of you guys the newbie perspective: I've always been a computer hardware guy, never a car guy. The only things I know about engines and fuels and oils is the very basic stuff I picked up from an intro to piston engineering course while I was learning to fly. I basically have no point of reference.
I was going to put 5w20 oil in my car, not because I refuse to see the light at the end of the tunnel, or because I'm "warranty scared", or because I'm naive. I was going to do it because it's what the manual said to do and it was the only readily available source of info. This place is a treasure trove on information to be sure, but for someone new it's hard to sort out the guys who have the experience and the knowledge from the guys parroting something someone told them once. I'm obviously ignorant of the ways of the world, but I'm trying to learn
Now, that being said, I need some help. After much researching and deliberation I bought a 2006 RX-8 GT (MT of course) and I love it. Unfortunately the guy I bought it from left the fluids in a sorry state, and the oil is at a level I would consider uncomfortably low.
You know when you were a kid and you were learning to do something, like your multiplication tables, or playing a sport or anything? Someone who was good at it just told you what to do. You didn't understand why it worked, it just did. Later on when you'd been doing it for a while you understood the wisdom of their words. That's what I need right now. I've got a car that needs oil now, and just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
If one of you smart guys could shed some light on this for me I'd be really grateful. Help me do the right thing for my shiny new car, and I promise to keep learning about these things and pass the knowledge along to some other wide-eyed noob when the time comes
If I might give some of you guys the newbie perspective: I've always been a computer hardware guy, never a car guy. The only things I know about engines and fuels and oils is the very basic stuff I picked up from an intro to piston engineering course while I was learning to fly. I basically have no point of reference.
I was going to put 5w20 oil in my car, not because I refuse to see the light at the end of the tunnel, or because I'm "warranty scared", or because I'm naive. I was going to do it because it's what the manual said to do and it was the only readily available source of info. This place is a treasure trove on information to be sure, but for someone new it's hard to sort out the guys who have the experience and the knowledge from the guys parroting something someone told them once. I'm obviously ignorant of the ways of the world, but I'm trying to learn
Now, that being said, I need some help. After much researching and deliberation I bought a 2006 RX-8 GT (MT of course) and I love it. Unfortunately the guy I bought it from left the fluids in a sorry state, and the oil is at a level I would consider uncomfortably low.
You know when you were a kid and you were learning to do something, like your multiplication tables, or playing a sport or anything? Someone who was good at it just told you what to do. You didn't understand why it worked, it just did. Later on when you'd been doing it for a while you understood the wisdom of their words. That's what I need right now. I've got a car that needs oil now, and just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
If one of you smart guys could shed some light on this for me I'd be really grateful. Help me do the right thing for my shiny new car, and I promise to keep learning about these things and pass the knowledge along to some other wide-eyed noob when the time comes
True Full Synthetic (GRP IV or V)
Castrol Syntec 0w30 (Notice, their 5w30 is NOT a true Full Synthetic oil)
Some Mobil1 w30 (depends on location, check the box)
Royal Purple 5w30 (GRP IV)
Red Line xw30 (they use GRP V)
I use 10w40 right now. Thinking of going for 5w50, but they use so much modifiers to make such wide grade oil and thats something I am not very comfortable with. but I dont know, I know Ford GT use 5w50 so maybe its ok to use? Im gonna stick with 10w40 for now.
08-10-2008, 01:30 AM
#77
Registered User
I've been using Mobile1 Supersynthetic 5w-20 and I'm currently living in Southwest Oklahoma. It gets into the 100s in the summer and below freezing often in the winter. Should I keep the same brand and bump up to 5w-30 or change to Royal Purple or something?
10-12-2008, 09:44 PM
#78
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hey i recently purchased an 04 rx8 i LOVE it! even though its my first car (im 17 ), i dont know much about the TRUE difference between the synthetic oil and the regular i have been looking and reading forums and i put 5w-20 royal purple (but again im a noob) and i would like to know if i should change it asap to 10w-40 or 5w-40 like bm said( i also live in Tx)
Last edited by elcolombiano91; 10-12-2008 at 09:46 PM.
10-15-2008, 12:29 AM
#79
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I'm in the same boots as CaptainCanada... Any tips or FAQs on switching to synthetic? My car is still pretty new and ~1,700 miles. Almost time for an oil change and I'd like to put the right oil in it during the first change. Is there a procedure for switching from regular to synthetic oil?
I'm still confused about whether or not synthetic oil is OK for the rotary. Half of you guys say its good, half say its not. I know Idemitsu is a reputable brand and they only make synthetic oil for rotaries...
I'm still confused about whether or not synthetic oil is OK for the rotary. Half of you guys say its good, half say its not. I know Idemitsu is a reputable brand and they only make synthetic oil for rotaries...
10-15-2008, 05:38 AM
#80
Registered
Way more than half will tell you synthetic is good, in fact it's better, but it's not necessary. Is it worth the extra money--only you can answer that question for yourself.
No special tips on switching to synthetic.
No special tips on switching to synthetic.
02-25-2009, 10:03 AM
#82
07 Rx8
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The best advantage of running a GOOD synthetic over a GOOD fossil base is that the synthetic won't break down as fast. They might offer better protection depending on the additives, but thats brand dependent. So for MOST of the drivers out there, a GOOD regular oil is more than sufficient. And yes running 5w-30 is the lowest you want to go if this is a daily driver and not just a pure track machine.
Changing the oil every 2500 miles negates a lot of the advantages of running a synthetic since synthetics typically last a lot longer than fossil base.
There are other things to consider. How hard you drive the car? Do you do proper warm up and cool down? Do you live in an area where you get large temperature swings throughout a day?
A big factor in oil breakdown, especially fossil base, is water condensation. Water can collect in the oil if you dont get the oil nice and hot for an extended period of driving. Short trips to the store or to work without getting the engine and oil nice and hot will result in extra moisture collection in the oil, preventing it from doing its job and also breaking it down faster. Large swings in temperature can also lead to extra moisture collecting in the oil.
So for those that do the short trips frequently, it is good to take the car out once a week and flog the living hell outta it for half an hour.
I found a document that has excellent information on oil and how its labeled and tested. I will try to track it down and share it.
[edit]
http://www.zag.si/~jank/public/bmw/oil_bible.pdf
Last edited by mrslysly; 02-25-2009 at 10:14 AM.
03-03-2009, 10:42 PM
#83
The RX-8 is missed
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a lot of good information here; thanks to those who put in so much time to help others.
i get my oil changes done pretty religiously by my dealer here. i don't have a house/driveway to do it myself, and just haven't taken the time; so i swing by and have them do it. anyway, i assume they stick to 5w20, like the manual says, but i don't know for sure. so, my question is, if mazda changes my oil...if i want to top it off, will a different type or brand adversely affect my engine? i just topped it off w/ castrol 5w20, but in the future i'd like to try something else. is it bad to have a "mix" of 2 different types of oils at the same time? does that make sense? i don't want to top off w/ something else if it's bad, i'd rather just stick to what mazda is using until i start handling the entire process myself...
and yes, if you're wondering, this is the first time in 5 years i've topped off the oil myself!! ha ha. i've always just gone to mazda and gotten it done right away (sometimes less than 3000 miles). i don't have time to go in the coming weeks so i thought it'd be good to top it off...
i get my oil changes done pretty religiously by my dealer here. i don't have a house/driveway to do it myself, and just haven't taken the time; so i swing by and have them do it. anyway, i assume they stick to 5w20, like the manual says, but i don't know for sure. so, my question is, if mazda changes my oil...if i want to top it off, will a different type or brand adversely affect my engine? i just topped it off w/ castrol 5w20, but in the future i'd like to try something else. is it bad to have a "mix" of 2 different types of oils at the same time? does that make sense? i don't want to top off w/ something else if it's bad, i'd rather just stick to what mazda is using until i start handling the entire process myself...
and yes, if you're wondering, this is the first time in 5 years i've topped off the oil myself!! ha ha. i've always just gone to mazda and gotten it done right away (sometimes less than 3000 miles). i don't have time to go in the coming weeks so i thought it'd be good to top it off...
03-03-2009, 10:44 PM
#84
Registered
Don't worry about mixing. But the amount that you top off, compared with the full capacity of oil, is not enough to matter much what you choose to top off with.
03-04-2009, 10:14 AM
#86
07 Rx8
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That you might not want to top off your dealer's oil change with. Royal purple is going to be at the other end of the spectrum from what the dealer uses. It would be a waste. Now if you ran all Royal Purple, then it would be different. You can request certain types of oil and different weight to be used at your next oil change at the dealer. They may give you this stern warning about warranty, its crap. You can put a different brand and weight in and still be covered by warranty.
So if you are concerned, next oil change, bump up to what you think is appropriate based on your local climate and driving style, and request the dealer to put that in. You may pay more for different brand and weight, but its usually worth it. Also when switching weights or brands (if there is a big difference in quality) you may want to have the next oil change at 1000 or 1500 miles instead of the 2500-3000 range as only 4 qts of the 7 are changed.
I got free oil changes for life from the dealer I purchased mine from. Thought it was a great idea til I found out they are using quaker state 5w20. Complete crap oil. I now do all the oil and filter on my own. I store my car for the winter so it doesn't see very cold temps, but usually run 10w30 early spring and late fall and run 10w40 during the summer. Its wisconsin but it can still get really hot up here on the pavement.
I used Idemitsu brand on my rx7 and found that oil to be amazing. Its specially designed just for a rotary. So its synthetic and about the same cost as royal purple. But found it was worth every penny. Also, Idemitsu makes a rotary premix which may be something you might want to look at. Even if you have an aftermarket tune with increased oil flow to the seals, a little premix is added protection. And the stuff is meant to burn clean with no ash (from the research i've done it goes way beyond the TC-W3 rating for 2stroke oils).
So if you are concerned, next oil change, bump up to what you think is appropriate based on your local climate and driving style, and request the dealer to put that in. You may pay more for different brand and weight, but its usually worth it. Also when switching weights or brands (if there is a big difference in quality) you may want to have the next oil change at 1000 or 1500 miles instead of the 2500-3000 range as only 4 qts of the 7 are changed.
I got free oil changes for life from the dealer I purchased mine from. Thought it was a great idea til I found out they are using quaker state 5w20. Complete crap oil. I now do all the oil and filter on my own. I store my car for the winter so it doesn't see very cold temps, but usually run 10w30 early spring and late fall and run 10w40 during the summer. Its wisconsin but it can still get really hot up here on the pavement.
I used Idemitsu brand on my rx7 and found that oil to be amazing. Its specially designed just for a rotary. So its synthetic and about the same cost as royal purple. But found it was worth every penny. Also, Idemitsu makes a rotary premix which may be something you might want to look at. Even if you have an aftermarket tune with increased oil flow to the seals, a little premix is added protection. And the stuff is meant to burn clean with no ash (from the research i've done it goes way beyond the TC-W3 rating for 2stroke oils).
Last edited by mrslysly; 03-04-2009 at 10:26 AM.
03-04-2009, 11:52 AM
#87
Registered
The only thing that really stands out about Idemitsu over other oils is the extremely high levels of Molybdenum which is an antifriction agent. That's the good news. The bad news is that at the levels they have it at (over 1000ppm), it has a tendency to fall out of suspension over time. It was only intended to be used in their race cars such as the 787B where the oil never sat around and the oil was only used for hours at a time. It was never intended for a street car for the above reason. Incredible it may be but I won't use it on a street car. That's just me though.
03-04-2009, 12:10 PM
#88
Registered
The only thing that really stands out about Idemitsu over other oils is the extremely high levels of Molybdenum which is an antifriction agent. That's the good news. The bad news is that at the levels they have it at (over 1000ppm), it has a tendency to fall out of suspension over time. It was only intended to be used in their race cars such as the 787B where the oil never sat around and the oil was only used for hours at a time. It was never intended for a street car for the above reason. Incredible it may be but I won't use it on a street car. That's just me though.
03-04-2009, 12:11 PM
#89
07 Rx8
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The only thing that really stands out about Idemitsu over other oils is the extremely high levels of Molybdenum which is an antifriction agent. That's the good news. The bad news is that at the levels they have it at (over 1000ppm), it has a tendency to fall out of suspension over time. It was only intended to be used in their race cars such as the 787B where the oil never sat around and the oil was only used for hours at a time. It was never intended for a street car for the above reason. Incredible it may be but I won't use it on a street car. That's just me though.
True, but the 7 was driven daily, multiple times per day. And oil changed religiously before 2500 miles. So that made a difference for me and my driving habits.
03-04-2009, 10:16 PM
#90
Registered
It's definitely a very good oil. I've even met the main guy behind it's formulation. He just so happens to be the head of Mazda's rotary engine department! Very low friction as a result of the moly in it. I just won't use it though. Anything that can fall out of suspension can also potentially have issues burning off aka carbon. Mazda did not meter engine oil into their race cars and race cars is what this oil is designed for. Fortunately today there is a wide assortment of very good oils out there.
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