Oil Pressure Regulator
03-06-2012, 09:40 AM
#26
My reading of the experience of others is that Rennys seldom, if ever, fail due to bearing wear. They tend to run either too hot (blown coolant seals) or too cold (milky oil). The OMP system is lacking center injectors, were set to supply too little oil in the early cars, and the hoses/tips are prone to plugging. The seals are prone to carbon-fouling compared to PP 13b's.
None of these issues are fixed by heavier weight oil or higher oil pressures. I agree that 5W-20 is probably too light. I use 10w-30, but don't run in winter and our summers are on the cool side. The OP was asking about the experiences of those using the high pressure mod, which I provided along with the rational for doing so. I apologize if I seemed abrupt in my "nope" to 20w-50; I was thinking at the time more along the lines that the effect of using it is not the same as the effect of the oil pressure mod, not that it is bad for all people under all circumstances. Racing in Arizona, yeah, commuting in Alberta, probably not. If anyone holds the 'key' to guaranteeing longevity in these things, I've yet to see it. (Though perhaps using 5w-20 with no oil or filter changes after 50k miles is a way to reach 140k as was the experience of a poster in another thread.)
YMMV
None of these issues are fixed by heavier weight oil or higher oil pressures. I agree that 5W-20 is probably too light. I use 10w-30, but don't run in winter and our summers are on the cool side. The OP was asking about the experiences of those using the high pressure mod, which I provided along with the rational for doing so. I apologize if I seemed abrupt in my "nope" to 20w-50; I was thinking at the time more along the lines that the effect of using it is not the same as the effect of the oil pressure mod, not that it is bad for all people under all circumstances. Racing in Arizona, yeah, commuting in Alberta, probably not. If anyone holds the 'key' to guaranteeing longevity in these things, I've yet to see it. (Though perhaps using 5w-20 with no oil or filter changes after 50k miles is a way to reach 140k as was the experience of a poster in another thread.)
YMMV
03-06-2012, 10:21 AM
#29
They tend to run either too hot (blown coolant seals) or too cold (milky oil).
as for too cold, it's bad for every car. not just rotary, again, ppl don't give a **** about their cars.
Driving used to be a luxury thing, something u should enjoy. but nowdays, wayyy too many ppl that's not supposed to drive are actually driving. totally kills the enjoyment.
The OMP system is lacking center injectors, were set to supply too little oil in the early cars, and the hoses/tips are prone to plugging.
too little oil is Mazda's fault.
as for center injectors, it's mazda's fault agian.
The seals are prone to carbon-fouling compared to PP 13b's.
None of these issues are fixed by heavier weight oil or higher oil pressures. I agree that 5W-20 is probably too light. I use 10w-30, but don't run in winter and our summers are on the cool side. The OP was asking about the experiences of those using the high pressure mod, which I provided along with the rational for doing so. I apologize if I seemed abrupt in my "nope" to 20w-50; I was thinking at the time more along the lines that the effect of using it is not the same as the effect of the oil pressure mod, not that it is bad for all people under all circumstances. Racing in Arizona, yeah, commuting in Alberta, probably not. If anyone holds the 'key' to guaranteeing longevity in these things, I've yet to see it. (Though perhaps using 5w-20 with no oil or filter changes after 50k miles is a way to reach 140k as was the experience of a poster in another thread.)
YMMV
YMMV
just like any other things in life, some people got really lucky, 140K without changing oil. I just feel sorry for his engine, cuz it can probably go over 250K with oil change.
Last edited by nycgps; 03-06-2012 at 10:27 AM.
03-06-2012, 10:23 AM
#30
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I run the Prosport oil filter adapter plate as well with no issues at all, just do as hiflite outlined, takes two seconds. A relocation kit just gives you more potential points of failure. I have learned the hard way, K.I.S.S.
03-06-2012, 11:07 AM
#31
There is another huge thread on the subject. My step-by-step is part of that: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=1180
I briefly looked into relocation. The RR kit anyway doesn't come with the "stock" thread size and I chose not to use anything but the SII filter.
03-06-2012, 11:48 AM
#32
Bad maintenence can be make things worse of course. However, many here have suffered blown engines even with good maintenance. My ~110 hp 1978 RX-4 ran over 100k miles being treated just like an ordinary car (with more frequent oil topoffs). The first couple of RX-7 series had a similar reputation of robustness. (I don't know enough about the FD and FC to comment). I'm told that all ran with the higher oil pressure. Mazda didn't have to create a 8 yr/100k warranty for them, nor set up a small factory dedicated to rebuilds. It seemed reasonable to take my Renny to the higher pressure. Will it work? Haven't a clue, and especially so considering there are so many other issues to look at with these engines.
Oil pressure mod, oil weight increase, aftermarket coils, etc, etc, is all working on the margins of an engine with problems designed-in at the factory. One can see where they realized the flaws were by what they fixed with the Series II.
[/quote]
03-06-2012, 12:45 PM
#33
Older rotary engines except fd are very reliable.
I dunno about fb and older but for fc na, it can go over 200k miles easily and turbo ii models can go over 100-150k without too much problem. If the engine is build with viton seals and fd corner springs, their life will be significantly longer, cuz its usually the soft seals that gives out first, then its the pathetic wire type corner seal springs.
Fd had much less than optimal reliablitiy, factory build stock early engines can give out as soon as 60k miles. Mazda made some changes later so the engine last longer, but most still needs an overhaul around 100k miles. Part of the failure is due to the crappy cramp up design in the engine bay, poor cooling. 99 spec improved it a lot, plus a twin turbo that flows better. You can get those parts here from mazda, but its not cheap and most ppl just stick with their own cooling mods. Thats also why ots hard to find a complete stock fd these days, but its easy as **** to find a completely stock fc.
I dunno about fb and older but for fc na, it can go over 200k miles easily and turbo ii models can go over 100-150k without too much problem. If the engine is build with viton seals and fd corner springs, their life will be significantly longer, cuz its usually the soft seals that gives out first, then its the pathetic wire type corner seal springs.
Fd had much less than optimal reliablitiy, factory build stock early engines can give out as soon as 60k miles. Mazda made some changes later so the engine last longer, but most still needs an overhaul around 100k miles. Part of the failure is due to the crappy cramp up design in the engine bay, poor cooling. 99 spec improved it a lot, plus a twin turbo that flows better. You can get those parts here from mazda, but its not cheap and most ppl just stick with their own cooling mods. Thats also why ots hard to find a complete stock fd these days, but its easy as **** to find a completely stock fc.
03-06-2012, 12:53 PM
#34
Back to oil pressure.
Mazda is so stupid on this issue, its well known fact that even fc is under pressure from factory at 70 psi, and they are doing it again for 13b-msp, which is the highest output na engine with a holy moly 10 ish psi increased ...
Well at least they know they f up and fix it in s2 ... plus a few other fixes, but damages have been done there is nothing they can do to reverse that. *sigh*
Lets just hope they will not mess up the next one. Jeeze
Mazda is so stupid on this issue, its well known fact that even fc is under pressure from factory at 70 psi, and they are doing it again for 13b-msp, which is the highest output na engine with a holy moly 10 ish psi increased ...
Well at least they know they f up and fix it in s2 ... plus a few other fixes, but damages have been done there is nothing they can do to reverse that. *sigh*
Lets just hope they will not mess up the next one. Jeeze
03-06-2012, 03:49 PM
#35
Super Moderator
ASH8 knows and has posted - can't find it now.
There is another huge thread on the subject. My step-by-step is part of that: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=1180
I briefly looked into relocation. The RR kit anyway doesn't come with the "stock" thread size and I chose not to use anything but the SII filter.
There is another huge thread on the subject. My step-by-step is part of that: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=1180
I briefly looked into relocation. The RR kit anyway doesn't come with the "stock" thread size and I chose not to use anything but the SII filter.
S2 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 20.3—26.1 PSI
S1 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 11.4—17.1 PSI
Last edited by ASH8; 03-06-2012 at 03:57 PM.
...much better than the 15 micron that most filters will let by
03-06-2012, 05:20 PM
#40
I looked those up on your recommendation before, the initial price is kind of high but not too bad in the long run.
03-07-2012, 10:17 AM
#42
ok, lets stick to the facts, help us out here:
S1 oil system flow rate: ?
S2 oil system flow rate: ?
S1 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
S2 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
how do you ever know if your filter is actually in bypass mode or not?
what we have here is a bunch of moron's pretending to be engineering experts using nothing more than assumptions pulled out of their @ss as the basis for their insisted expertise
S1 oil system flow rate: ?
S2 oil system flow rate: ?
S1 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
S2 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
how do you ever know if your filter is actually in bypass mode or not?
what we have here is a bunch of moron's pretending to be engineering experts using nothing more than assumptions pulled out of their @ss as the basis for their insisted expertise
03-08-2012, 12:37 AM
#45
what's going on here is no different than this thread starting at Post#108
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...53#post4207153
all the wrong assumptions and assessments ...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...53#post4207153
all the wrong assumptions and assessments ...
03-08-2012, 03:56 AM
#46
Super Moderator
I am surprise none has reacted sooner.
The main reason the S2 Oil Filter has a higher (50% max) by pass trigger is because all the engine oil from the new Oil Pump goes through the Oil Filter FIRST, it can not be diverted at any stage like all previous Rotaries can via their rear OP Relief Valve, where at higher RPM/Loads can return some unfiltered oil to Oil Pan before it even reaches the Oil Filter.
IMO the main reason the S2 Oil Filter was made 25% larger is because Mazda obviously found a longevity deficiency with the smaller 25+ year old one they once used...when you crack open both (OE which I have done) the S2 filter cone is longer therefore larger and the BP Spring Plate is slightly thicker. Most 'other brands' of S1 Oil Filters use a coil spring, not a tension plate.
Perhaps Mazda found that after a short period of use/age the original S1 Oil Filters were going into by-pass early?....it is a possibility...and I agree no one knows if and when their Oil Filter goes into that mode.
The main reason the S2 Oil Filter has a higher (50% max) by pass trigger is because all the engine oil from the new Oil Pump goes through the Oil Filter FIRST, it can not be diverted at any stage like all previous Rotaries can via their rear OP Relief Valve, where at higher RPM/Loads can return some unfiltered oil to Oil Pan before it even reaches the Oil Filter.
IMO the main reason the S2 Oil Filter was made 25% larger is because Mazda obviously found a longevity deficiency with the smaller 25+ year old one they once used...when you crack open both (OE which I have done) the S2 filter cone is longer therefore larger and the BP Spring Plate is slightly thicker. Most 'other brands' of S1 Oil Filters use a coil spring, not a tension plate.
Perhaps Mazda found that after a short period of use/age the original S1 Oil Filters were going into by-pass early?....it is a possibility...and I agree no one knows if and when their Oil Filter goes into that mode.
Last edited by ASH8; 03-08-2012 at 04:01 AM.
03-08-2012, 04:55 PM
#50
Super Moderator
ok, lets stick to the facts, help us out here:
S1 oil system flow rate: ?
S2 oil system flow rate: ?
S1 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
S2 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
how do you ever know if your filter is actually in bypass mode or not?
what we have here is a bunch of moron's pretending to be engineering experts using nothing more than assumptions pulled out of their @ss as the basis for their insisted expertise
S1 oil system flow rate: ?
S2 oil system flow rate: ?
S1 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
S2 oil system differential pressure across the oil filter when new: ?
how do you ever know if your filter is actually in bypass mode or not?
what we have here is a bunch of moron's pretending to be engineering experts using nothing more than assumptions pulled out of their @ss as the basis for their insisted expertise