New TSB from Mazda Australia says mineral oils only!
08-18-2006, 03:37 AM
#51
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Could be, but I believe carbon deposits from the oil burnt in the combustion chamber would account for a fraction of what may come from low quality fuels with no additives.
Considering most racing teams run race oils with race fuels (with few cleaning additives), and most have experienced next to no carbon deposits, I wonder if this is more related to operating the engine at very low speeds for prolonged periods (as Druck, one of our UKOC members suggests).
I have been running mine from the second top up of oil with PAO semi-synth oil, and switched to PAO fully-synth 12k miles ago and I have yet to experience any negative side effects.
I do want to keep an open mind and will observe this thread, but considering I am on the track next weekend, I don't really fancy going there with an under performing oil...
I would appreciate if Mazda published the research that led to the TSB rather than just issuing a blanket statement that could be mistaken for a hoax of international proportions (as it has been for a few days in the UK)
Considering most racing teams run race oils with race fuels (with few cleaning additives), and most have experienced next to no carbon deposits, I wonder if this is more related to operating the engine at very low speeds for prolonged periods (as Druck, one of our UKOC members suggests).
I have been running mine from the second top up of oil with PAO semi-synth oil, and switched to PAO fully-synth 12k miles ago and I have yet to experience any negative side effects.
I do want to keep an open mind and will observe this thread, but considering I am on the track next weekend, I don't really fancy going there with an under performing oil...
I would appreciate if Mazda published the research that led to the TSB rather than just issuing a blanket statement that could be mistaken for a hoax of international proportions (as it has been for a few days in the UK)
Last edited by fnegroni; 08-18-2006 at 03:41 AM.
08-18-2006, 07:32 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by timbo
What would be the point of this? Mazda makes its money on cars, not on the piddlin' margin it might get on oil. And I note the Euro TSB talks about "...other mineral-based oils" not just MRO.
There's no conspiracy here, despite what others might think
There's no conspiracy here, despite what others might think
08-18-2006, 08:33 AM
#54
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Mobile manufactures a mineral only oil, the "5000".
May I dare suggest that this may have something to do with oil drain intervals?
In Europe (don't know about Australia), oil is changed only once every 12.5k miles (20k kms).
May I dare suggest that this may have something to do with oil drain intervals?
In Europe (don't know about Australia), oil is changed only once every 12.5k miles (20k kms).
08-18-2006, 12:12 PM
#55
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i think this is more of the same as we saw in the CD here (never have seen it myself) and we have talked about here for years.- its spelled out clearly in the UK bulletin- Mazda does not recommend any oil it hasnt tested. that has been the basis of the stance from the begining- Mazda will not spend the Money to test every variation of synth and semi synth onm the market. since there has been eveidence that there can be issues it is cheaper for them to say "dont use them" then to bother with all the testing to weed out the specific ones you shouldnt use. Its a "CORPORATE" stance not a scientific one- the science would cost them more than they are willing to spend.
on the flip side- here int he states because of the issues in vegas et al, the dealers are now required to send an oil analysis of the brand they buy for use in their service departments so mazda can approve or not the use of that brand and weight. so it could be there is an additive they are wary of....
on the flip side- here int he states because of the issues in vegas et al, the dealers are now required to send an oil analysis of the brand they buy for use in their service departments so mazda can approve or not the use of that brand and weight. so it could be there is an additive they are wary of....
08-18-2006, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
i think this is more of the same as we saw in the CD here (never have seen it myself) and we have talked about here for years.- its spelled out clearly in the UK bulletin- Mazda does not recommend any oil it hasnt tested. that has been the basis of the stance from the begining- Mazda will not spend the Money to test every variation of synth and semi synth onm the market. since there has been eveidence that there can be issues it is cheaper for them to say "dont use them" then to bother with all the testing to weed out the specific ones you shouldnt use. Its a "CORPORATE" stance not a scientific one- the science would cost them more than they are willing to spend.
on the flip side- here int he states because of the issues in vegas et al, the dealers are now required to send an oil analysis of the brand they buy for use in their service departments so mazda can approve or not the use of that brand and weight. so it could be there is an additive they are wary of....
on the flip side- here int he states because of the issues in vegas et al, the dealers are now required to send an oil analysis of the brand they buy for use in their service departments so mazda can approve or not the use of that brand and weight. so it could be there is an additive they are wary of....
08-19-2006, 03:42 AM
#58
Originally Posted by Cam
Hmm, My dealer (University Mazda) used to use Chevron oil, but recently (last 6-12 months) moved to Castrol. Could this be why?
beers
08-19-2006, 03:47 AM
#59
Originally Posted by 4 years to Supercharge
I have read that MNAO is close with Mobil but their synth is not good for the Renesis. Can anyone shed some light on this? RG?
i had to work to find that one!!!!! btw, thx rg.
beers
08-19-2006, 04:44 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by fnegroni
We just got a similar bulletin here in the UK, addressed to the European market (see attached picture)
08-19-2006, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubo
It says the owners' manual will be revised. Then in the very next sentence it says the owners' manual will not be revised.
That's the way I read it.
08-19-2006, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fnegroni
Mobil manufactures a mineral only oil, the "5000".
May I dare suggest that this may have something to do with oil drain intervals?
In Europe (don't know about Australia), oil is changed only once every 12.5k miles (20k kms).
May I dare suggest that this may have something to do with oil drain intervals?
In Europe (don't know about Australia), oil is changed only once every 12.5k miles (20k kms).
Here in Australia the oil changes are due every 10,000kms (6000 miles).
08-19-2006, 04:57 AM
#63
Originally Posted by Gomez
Yeah, that's way too long, IMO.
Here in Australia the oil changes are due every 10,000kms (6000 miles).
Here in Australia the oil changes are due every 10,000kms (6000 miles).
funny,
how the marketing works..... in the usa every 3k miles or you are DOOOOOOMMMMMED....
i have been doing every 5 k miles.... and have no more or less problems...
btw, that ambrose guy can drive a truck... go figure..
beers
08-19-2006, 08:03 AM
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I think we should focus on why Yamamoto states Mobil 1 is the worst synthetic to use in the rotary. How much different can Mobil 1 be than Royal Purple? They both use PAO for base stocks. So other than different amounts of additives they are very similar.
However, I would also point out that we assume RP is a group IV. This is controversial and it is felt by members of BITOG that RP is actually a hydrocracked group III. Nowhere, is there a product spec sheet listing the base oil used in RP, not even on RP's website, in fact, RP will not say what they use. If this is the case than it would make sense why RP is safe in rotaries, that is because RP is actually a highly refined mineral base stock.
However, I would also point out that we assume RP is a group IV. This is controversial and it is felt by members of BITOG that RP is actually a hydrocracked group III. Nowhere, is there a product spec sheet listing the base oil used in RP, not even on RP's website, in fact, RP will not say what they use. If this is the case than it would make sense why RP is safe in rotaries, that is because RP is actually a highly refined mineral base stock.
Last edited by turbodiesel_1; 08-19-2006 at 11:24 AM.
08-19-2006, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by swoope
funny,
how the marketing works..... in the usa every 3k miles or you are DOOOOOOMMMMMED....
i have been doing every 5 k miles.... and have no more or less problems...
btw, that ambrose guy can drive a truck... go figure..
beers
how the marketing works..... in the usa every 3k miles or you are DOOOOOOMMMMMED....
i have been doing every 5 k miles.... and have no more or less problems...
btw, that ambrose guy can drive a truck... go figure..
beers
08-19-2006, 02:43 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by turbodiesel_1
I think we should focus on why Yamamoto states Mobil 1 is the worst synthetic to use in the rotary. How much different can Mobil 1 be than Royal Purple? They both use PAO for base stocks. So other than different amounts of additives they are very similar.
However, I would also point out that we assume RP is a group IV. This is controversial and it is felt by members of BITOG that RP is actually a hydrocracked group III. Nowhere, is there a product spec sheet listing the base oil used in RP, not even on RP's website, in fact, RP will not say what they use. If this is the case than it would make sense why RP is safe in rotaries, that is because RP is actually a highly refined mineral base stock.
However, I would also point out that we assume RP is a group IV. This is controversial and it is felt by members of BITOG that RP is actually a hydrocracked group III. Nowhere, is there a product spec sheet listing the base oil used in RP, not even on RP's website, in fact, RP will not say what they use. If this is the case than it would make sense why RP is safe in rotaries, that is because RP is actually a highly refined mineral base stock.
08-19-2006, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
Royal Purple is a Group IV PAO. I've been there and had a tour of the place. They have no problem saying what it is. It is not a Group III.
I'm sure they can say whatever they want, but that is not going to fly. How do you know it is not a group III? because they told you so?? Can you produce a document? Fact is there is no such documentation from RP. Yeah, I'm sure they can say all kinds of BS during a tour.
Last edited by turbodiesel_1; 08-19-2006 at 04:18 PM.
08-20-2006, 03:25 AM
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These guys make an oil scan for 45 bucks, maybe someone interested can pay them to analise one of the RB oils they sell (or probably they already know):
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog...otor_oils.html
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog...otor_oils.html
08-20-2006, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by juanjux
In Europe is every 15.000 kms (9300 miles)
Regular maintenance is 20.000kms (12.5k miles). At least this is what my European service manual says, and what my dealer does.
08-29-2006, 05:00 PM
#72
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RG: blah, blah, blah.
Raise your hand if you think a mere consumer knows more about rotary engines than the company that produces them.
But you know, some people will defend their false statements to the grave.
Raise your hand if you think a mere consumer knows more about rotary engines than the company that produces them.
But you know, some people will defend their false statements to the grave.
Last edited by valpac; 08-29-2006 at 05:15 PM.
08-29-2006, 05:21 PM
#73
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valpac: blah blah blah.
Raise your hand if you think a company will mention not to use x company product due to lawsuites?
But you know, some people will blindly believe any corporation despite decades of testing, by the manufacturer themselves, and other aftermarket companies. Though its funny that the type of product the company tells the consumer to use, causes the same issues.
I think I will go with the company that has done the most research and testing on said subject. Looks like Mazda is one of them...
Raise your hand if you think a company will mention not to use x company product due to lawsuites?
But you know, some people will blindly believe any corporation despite decades of testing, by the manufacturer themselves, and other aftermarket companies. Though its funny that the type of product the company tells the consumer to use, causes the same issues.
I think I will go with the company that has done the most research and testing on said subject. Looks like Mazda is one of them...
08-29-2006, 05:27 PM
#74
He's as bad as Can
Originally Posted by valpac
Raise your hand if you think a mere consumer knows more about rotary engines than the company that produces them.
08-29-2006, 05:52 PM
#75
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Dont know why the diff in viscosity between US and Australian cars. The service bulletin does state that Synthetic oils/blends are prohibited in all Mazda rotary engines...
I'll say this, corporations have agendas and Mazda is no different than most. It is your choice whether to believe lawyers dreamed up this bulletin to "cover their ***" and mitigate potential lawsuits or Engineers drafted this sb because they have tested synth oils in rotary engines and found them to be detrimental. Why risk it? Your choice.
I really hate reading statements from self-professed experts on this forum that say "using synth oil is fine". Such statements are irresponsible in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.
I'll say this, corporations have agendas and Mazda is no different than most. It is your choice whether to believe lawyers dreamed up this bulletin to "cover their ***" and mitigate potential lawsuits or Engineers drafted this sb because they have tested synth oils in rotary engines and found them to be detrimental. Why risk it? Your choice.
I really hate reading statements from self-professed experts on this forum that say "using synth oil is fine". Such statements are irresponsible in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.