My 8 got soaked into the rain and died
01-26-2013, 12:47 AM
#51
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Yes, on the OEM intake as well, cracked engine block.
I would rather pull a U-turn across double lines, in packed traffic, than risk driving through water again. Even though I was on the only one, at that intersection, with a destroyed engine that day and all the thousands of cars passed through fine.
I would rather pull a U-turn across double lines, in packed traffic, than risk driving through water again. Even though I was on the only one, at that intersection, with a destroyed engine that day and all the thousands of cars passed through fine.
01-26-2013, 10:19 AM
#52
this could have been as simple as a lot of water on the maf that caused the initial engine shut down to just a water flooded engine.
Take Karack up on his offer and take the car to him.
If you didnt need a new engine before this event it is highly unlikely that you need one now---unless it has been sitting a while with water in it.
Take Karack up on his offer and take the car to him.
If you didnt need a new engine before this event it is highly unlikely that you need one now---unless it has been sitting a while with water in it.
01-26-2013, 08:45 PM
#53
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Thanks for your help.
So while doing this procedure B, would it be good idea to swap spark plugs, wires, and coils and starter maybe? And also take out the ECU and dry it?
Even if the car fails to start after these steps, then I really need to get a new engine right?
So while doing this procedure B, would it be good idea to swap spark plugs, wires, and coils and starter maybe? And also take out the ECU and dry it?
Even if the car fails to start after these steps, then I really need to get a new engine right?
low compression results can be caused by the water it ingested. follow the mazda "engine fails to start" procedure B by adding 30cc's of engine oil or 2 stroke oil to the engine and airing out the water and fuel from the engine before attempting to start it.
and of course verify it is getting fuel and spark, your ECU may have gotten drenched with water and is offline and either needs to be replaced or dried out. i still haven't heard mention that they have verified it has spark or fuel yet. newer cars also run on a BUS, which is basically like an ethernet for computers, if once computer goes offlines it has the possibility of turning off others it is tied to as well. diagnosing newer cars can be quite costly if the car is in the wrong hands.
you can save a few bucks ordering some parts yourself as well. OE NGK plug wires and spark plugs are $120 from rockauto.com versus the $300 esitimate you were given, thats almost $200 in savings on basic parts...
another flooded 8 was just on the forum a few weeks back, but apparently that engine took in enough water to crack the block, but i'd still like to see pictures of that one because it is difficult to believe. if you have a long RAM intake system with filter at the front bumper, it's not a bad idea to create a splash shield so it doesn't ingest too much water in case of floods(something i need to do because my filter is exposed and it floods quite often here).
and of course verify it is getting fuel and spark, your ECU may have gotten drenched with water and is offline and either needs to be replaced or dried out. i still haven't heard mention that they have verified it has spark or fuel yet. newer cars also run on a BUS, which is basically like an ethernet for computers, if once computer goes offlines it has the possibility of turning off others it is tied to as well. diagnosing newer cars can be quite costly if the car is in the wrong hands.
you can save a few bucks ordering some parts yourself as well. OE NGK plug wires and spark plugs are $120 from rockauto.com versus the $300 esitimate you were given, thats almost $200 in savings on basic parts...
another flooded 8 was just on the forum a few weeks back, but apparently that engine took in enough water to crack the block, but i'd still like to see pictures of that one because it is difficult to believe. if you have a long RAM intake system with filter at the front bumper, it's not a bad idea to create a splash shield so it doesn't ingest too much water in case of floods(something i need to do because my filter is exposed and it floods quite often here).
01-26-2013, 08:51 PM
#54
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I found two documents about the repair procedure and I don't know which one is the right one
Here's one:http://tech.rx8nl.com/tsb/01-011-04-1273d.pdf
and
http://m0kwr.com/zips/Mazda_RX8_Flooding_TSB.pdf
Thanks
Here's one:http://tech.rx8nl.com/tsb/01-011-04-1273d.pdf
and
http://m0kwr.com/zips/Mazda_RX8_Flooding_TSB.pdf
Thanks
01-27-2013, 10:55 AM
#55
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this could have been as simple as a lot of water on the maf that caused the initial engine shut down to just a water flooded engine.
Take Karack up on his offer and take the car to him.
If you didnt need a new engine before this event it is highly unlikely that you need one now---unless it has been sitting a while with water in it.
Take Karack up on his offer and take the car to him.
If you didnt need a new engine before this event it is highly unlikely that you need one now---unless it has been sitting a while with water in it.
01-28-2013, 09:30 AM
#56
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Just got a phone call from the shop, they followed repair procedure B, dried ECU (which they've already done, along with letting all water out by taking out plugs and crank it), engine cranks, but does not turn over (car won't start). But they've told me that it does get the fuel and spark.
NOW what should I do... I am waiting for the plugs, wires, and coils set with new upgraded starter from Mazmart. Hopefully I get them this week and give a shot.
NOW what should I do... I am waiting for the plugs, wires, and coils set with new upgraded starter from Mazmart. Hopefully I get them this week and give a shot.
Last edited by HotBrothers; 01-28-2013 at 09:55 AM.
01-28-2013, 02:39 PM
#57
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Did everything you said, does crank, does not turn over, though getting fuel and spark. Waiting for plugs, coils and starter to arrive. Should I try the zoom zoom cleaner to clean the engine? And does the mazda's engine fail to start the same thing as deflooding the engine like in this thread? https://www.rx8club.com/do-yourself-...lumber-182410/
low compression results can be caused by the water it ingested. follow the mazda "engine fails to start" procedure B by adding 30cc's of engine oil or 2 stroke oil to the engine and airing out the water and fuel from the engine before attempting to start it.
and of course verify it is getting fuel and spark, your ECU may have gotten drenched with water and is offline and either needs to be replaced or dried out. i still haven't heard mention that they have verified it has spark or fuel yet. newer cars also run on a BUS, which is basically like an ethernet for computers, if once computer goes offlines it has the possibility of turning off others it is tied to as well. diagnosing newer cars can be quite costly if the car is in the wrong hands.
you can save a few bucks ordering some parts yourself as well. OE NGK plug wires and spark plugs are $120 from rockauto.com versus the $300 esitimate you were given, thats almost $200 in savings on basic parts...
another flooded 8 was just on the forum a few weeks back, but apparently that engine took in enough water to crack the block, but i'd still like to see pictures of that one because it is difficult to believe. if you have a long RAM intake system with filter at the front bumper, it's not a bad idea to create a splash shield so it doesn't ingest too much water in case of floods(something i need to do because my filter is exposed and it floods quite often here).
and of course verify it is getting fuel and spark, your ECU may have gotten drenched with water and is offline and either needs to be replaced or dried out. i still haven't heard mention that they have verified it has spark or fuel yet. newer cars also run on a BUS, which is basically like an ethernet for computers, if once computer goes offlines it has the possibility of turning off others it is tied to as well. diagnosing newer cars can be quite costly if the car is in the wrong hands.
you can save a few bucks ordering some parts yourself as well. OE NGK plug wires and spark plugs are $120 from rockauto.com versus the $300 esitimate you were given, thats almost $200 in savings on basic parts...
another flooded 8 was just on the forum a few weeks back, but apparently that engine took in enough water to crack the block, but i'd still like to see pictures of that one because it is difficult to believe. if you have a long RAM intake system with filter at the front bumper, it's not a bad idea to create a splash shield so it doesn't ingest too much water in case of floods(something i need to do because my filter is exposed and it floods quite often here).
01-28-2013, 03:20 PM
#58
Rotary Evolution
the TSB with the procedure can be found here:
https://www.rx8club.com/attachments/...s-no-start-pdf
procedure B calls for adding lubricant to the engine to aid in compression on washed out low compression flooded engines. you shouldn't need to use engine oil, i would prefer to use 2 stroke oil as you shouldn't need to do a decarb on it afterwards.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachments/...s-no-start-pdf
procedure B calls for adding lubricant to the engine to aid in compression on washed out low compression flooded engines. you shouldn't need to use engine oil, i would prefer to use 2 stroke oil as you shouldn't need to do a decarb on it afterwards.
01-28-2013, 03:37 PM
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Yes I indeed found that and the shop followed that direction...but the result isn't good...
the TSB with the procedure can be found here:
https://www.rx8club.com/attachments/...s-no-start-pdf
procedure B calls for adding lubricant to the engine to aid in compression on washed out low compression flooded engines. you shouldn't need to use engine oil, i would prefer to use 2 stroke oil as you shouldn't need to do a decarb on it afterwards.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachments/...s-no-start-pdf
procedure B calls for adding lubricant to the engine to aid in compression on washed out low compression flooded engines. you shouldn't need to use engine oil, i would prefer to use 2 stroke oil as you shouldn't need to do a decarb on it afterwards.
01-28-2013, 03:43 PM
#60
Rotary Evolution
i'd have them get some compression readings and go from there. if after adding oil to the intake it still isn't building some compression then the seals may have gotten damaged.
01-28-2013, 04:01 PM
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Will see what happens after new plugs,coils,wires, and starter swap.
The problem is I didn't know what compression I had before submerged with water... it did not have any cold/warm start issues even with the old starter for 70k miles 2004...
01-28-2013, 04:55 PM
#62
Rotary Evolution
well if they don't have a mazda compression gauge they can use a piston gauge with the schraeder removed from the line to the plugs. you should see at minimum 85psi for all 6 faces with a cranking speed at or over 200 rpms.
if it's rediculously low in the 0-50psi range then likely you will need a new engine.
if it's rediculously low in the 0-50psi range then likely you will need a new engine.
01-28-2013, 07:30 PM
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well if they don't have a mazda compression gauge they can use a piston gauge with the schraeder removed from the line to the plugs. you should see at minimum 85psi for all 6 faces with a cranking speed at or over 200 rpms.
if it's rediculously low in the 0-50psi range then likely you will need a new engine.
if it's rediculously low in the 0-50psi range then likely you will need a new engine.
01-28-2013, 09:13 PM
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I've been searching to find an official thread about that.
Is it basically just someone pushing the car and while they do that on some speed, place the gear into 2nd and slowly depress the clutch pedal and with pushing gas pedal and turning the key to start the car? But if my engine indeed lost compression, wouldn't pull start just be a temporary solution?
Is it basically just someone pushing the car and while they do that on some speed, place the gear into 2nd and slowly depress the clutch pedal and with pushing gas pedal and turning the key to start the car? But if my engine indeed lost compression, wouldn't pull start just be a temporary solution?
01-28-2013, 09:48 PM
#66
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trust us ... try the pull start... it's even easier if you take the tow hook out of the nook in your trunk and screw it into your front cowl (there's a little notch that when opened will expose the bung hole).
Tie one end of a decent nylon or hemp rope to the tow hook, the other the rear of a functional car.
put your 8 in neutral and turn the key on
let the towing vehicle get up to 5 or so mph
engage clutch
go into second gear
raise foot off clutch and enjoy the tow
Tie one end of a decent nylon or hemp rope to the tow hook, the other the rear of a functional car.
put your 8 in neutral and turn the key on
let the towing vehicle get up to 5 or so mph
engage clutch
go into second gear
raise foot off clutch and enjoy the tow
01-28-2013, 10:24 PM
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raise foot off clutch and simultaneously turn the key to start the engine?
What should I do if engine starts?
What should I do if engine starts?
trust us ... try the pull start... it's even easier if you take the tow hook out of the nook in your trunk and screw it into your front cowl (there's a little notch that when opened will expose the bung hole).
Tie one end of a decent nylon or hemp rope to the tow hook, the other the rear of a functional car.
put your 8 in neutral and turn the key on
let the towing vehicle get up to 5 or so mph
engage clutch
go into second gear
raise foot off clutch and enjoy the tow
Tie one end of a decent nylon or hemp rope to the tow hook, the other the rear of a functional car.
put your 8 in neutral and turn the key on
let the towing vehicle get up to 5 or so mph
engage clutch
go into second gear
raise foot off clutch and enjoy the tow
01-29-2013, 09:41 AM
#70
the shop will probably not do this man. If they really know the rotary they may--but they more than likely will not.
But in response to your question about what to do--good instructions have been given--once the engine starts just push the clutch in and keep it running. Be sure the person doing the towing knows it is time to stop and be sure they know to stop gradually so you dont hit them in the rear.
It will start-it may not want to idle, but it will start. After keeping it running for a few minutes--then see if it will idle.
But in response to your question about what to do--good instructions have been given--once the engine starts just push the clutch in and keep it running. Be sure the person doing the towing knows it is time to stop and be sure they know to stop gradually so you dont hit them in the rear.
It will start-it may not want to idle, but it will start. After keeping it running for a few minutes--then see if it will idle.
01-29-2013, 10:12 AM
#71
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Shop said one cylinder is in the range but other 3 has less than 40psi...
the shop will probably not do this man. If they really know the rotary they may--but they more than likely will not.
But in response to your question about what to do--good instructions have been given--once the engine starts just push the clutch in and keep it running. Be sure the person doing the towing knows it is time to stop and be sure they know to stop gradually so you dont hit them in the rear.
It will start-it may not want to idle, but it will start. After keeping it running for a few minutes--then see if it will idle.
But in response to your question about what to do--good instructions have been given--once the engine starts just push the clutch in and keep it running. Be sure the person doing the towing knows it is time to stop and be sure they know to stop gradually so you dont hit them in the rear.
It will start-it may not want to idle, but it will start. After keeping it running for a few minutes--then see if it will idle.
01-29-2013, 10:14 AM
#72
Rotary Evolution
it's the same procedure you would use for any car that has a low battery or bad starter.
roll the car up to a speed between 15-25mph with the ignition key to on, put it in second gear and let out the clutch. try applying the throttle slowly to see if the engine is trying to take over or not. sometimes it only takes a few seconds once the engine starts turning, sometimes it can take several blocks and sometimes it doesn't work at all.
but pull starting should get even a severely low compression engine running, assuming it does in fact have fuel and spark like the shop said.
roll the car up to a speed between 15-25mph with the ignition key to on, put it in second gear and let out the clutch. try applying the throttle slowly to see if the engine is trying to take over or not. sometimes it only takes a few seconds once the engine starts turning, sometimes it can take several blocks and sometimes it doesn't work at all.
but pull starting should get even a severely low compression engine running, assuming it does in fact have fuel and spark like the shop said.
Last edited by Karack; 01-29-2013 at 10:17 AM.
01-29-2013, 10:24 AM
#74
Rotary Evolution
unfortunately explaining to a non rotary shop how a rotary engine works is more than i would feel like doing.
have them read this test procuedure.. add in that they will need to disconnect the eccentric shaft position sensor before the test versus removing the EGI fuse(works on older RX7s)
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
it's a rough test but better than the garbled results they gave you.
or just do the pull start procedure.
Last edited by Karack; 01-29-2013 at 10:27 AM.
01-29-2013, 11:16 AM
#75
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Going to the shop with a friend to push start today... will post update
can't have one chamber(plug port) be ok but the other 3 not. and they only need to test the 2 bottom plug ports.
unfortunately explaining to a non rotary shop how a rotary engine works is more than i would feel like doing.
have them read this test procuedure.. add in that they will need to disconnect the eccentric shaft position sensor before the test versus removing the EGI fuse(works on older RX7s)
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
it's a rough test but better than the garbled results they gave you.
or just do the pull start procedure.
unfortunately explaining to a non rotary shop how a rotary engine works is more than i would feel like doing.
have them read this test procuedure.. add in that they will need to disconnect the eccentric shaft position sensor before the test versus removing the EGI fuse(works on older RX7s)
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
it's a rough test but better than the garbled results they gave you.
or just do the pull start procedure.