partovi

Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.

Lee Chun

The dealers oftentimes know much less than the customers.

I was told by my salesperson that I probably know more about the rx-8 than anyone at the dealership. I'm glad she didn't just tell me a bunch of BS; instead she told me nothing about the car other than that it's "really nice."

There is no way I will be happy with under 190whp. Come on, the S2000s are getting into the 190s!!

Skyline Maniac

The Mazda dealership here explained to me the tire repair kit goo is specially made for Mazda. According to him, the goo won't destroy the tires because they will 'sublime' after the tire is properly repaired, thus making it as good as new. Anyone knows where I can get this type of 'special Mazda goo'?

Anyways, any news from Mazda regarding the power issue yet?

canzoomer

I have a Mazda Japan complete brochure in my hand.
3 models:
RX-8 Type S: 250PS, 6 speed, cloth seats, ABS/EBD, 18", Bose.
My Japanese is too poor to figure what else is included.
$2,750,000 Yen (Roughly 23,288 USD$)

RX-8 : 210PS, 5 speed manual, or 4 speed automatic
cloth, 16" wheels, ABS+EBD. LSD+DSC is optional.
$2400000 Yen )Roughly 20,328 USD$

RX-8 Type E: ABS+EBD, LSD+DSC, 16" wheels, Bose, leather, 210PS, 4 speed automatic.
$2,750,000 Yen (Roughly $23,288 USD$)

Add freight, etc., USA emissions and bumpers, left hand drive, perhaps another $5,000.

myrx8

It sounds like this whole horsepower issue is with the 6 speed model. Is this true?

If it is, I am glad I got the slower automatic.

BRealistic

I hope you asked for their dyno printouts. I hate the fact that you can't trust any dealer for any brand. They will tell you anything to sell a car, even if it is pure bs.

On another nore, could the U.S. spec RX-8 be making 228hp at the crank like Mazda re-spec'd the Euro version? I can't imagine the Euro version having to deal with stricter emissions that the U.S. version.

Skyline Maniac

Well, the automatic models are still slower, but only because of its transmission. The power output on the 207hp and 247hp are a lot more similar than what would appear on paper.

StretchSJE

Bah, and the 6-spd version may not be as much faster as expected, but it sure is a lot more fun that a slushbox.

partovi

I asked were they got their info they said that all the major magazines were putting out those numbers for their dynos. I was like bull **** but didnt want to make a big deal out of it. I told them i have seen posted pictures of more then one dyno with the RX-8 putting out 180 at the wheels. One of the guys said that the car is still really new and to give it some time and everything will be worked out. Thats kinda what im thinking.....hope its sooner then later. BTW when it comes down to it i would rather drive the 6 speed then the auto even if the 6 speed was only putting out 150hp at the wheels.

canzoomer

One fellow installed a GTech unit and did some runs.

Results are posted at:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...394#post101394

0-60 in 6.021 seconds.
1/4 mile in 14.037 at 101.39mph

COOL!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

RX-Nut

I dunno if you folks know this, and for what it's worth.. the RX-8's window sticker clearly states..

1.3L ROTARY ENGINE WITH 247HP

crazydrifter

okay i owned a G35C reason i said owned is cause a week ago it got totalled...if you check the G35 forums right now you will notice they are complaining about the same amount of power loss...its seems that the g35 is rated at 280 but being dyno'ed after 4k miles only gives out a reading between 220 and 240...right now i am lookin at either getting the g35c again or a rx-8...both being high compression motors i think is something we all need to take into account... for instance most of us have delt with 9.5 or lower compression motors with turbos...now we are dealing with 10:1 or higher compression...I could be wrong but maybe having a highly tuned n/a motor is what is causing the shortage in hp..cause even the e46 m3 with a rating of 333 is dyno'ed at about 280 or so... and its compression is 11.5:1... to come down to it mazda didnt make this car to be sports car...it ment it to be a fun to drive in the mountains and in the city kind of car not for a race track...also does anyone know what mazda stated the transfer loss to be...cause if they state 247 then by law they also need to tell you what can actually be expected under pre-written conditions other wise its false advertisement... i think instead of having 16 pages of posts with everyones opinions we should just write to Ford the owner of mazda and tell them we want visual proof of the 247 either on an engine dyno or a reason on why there is a 40hp loss... if you disagree with me thats cool heck i disagree with myself...

wakeech

...you're wrong.

KyngNothing

Could you PLEASE give us a link to this? (PM me if you want) I'd be very interested in seeing what was going on...

Thanks!

Skyline Maniac

The G35 power deficiency issue arised earlier this year, when people started to compare their G35's to BMW counter parts. Some people felt the BMW's 'felt' faster. Some G35 owners complain about the fact that BMW engines with lower power ratings generally performs on par with higher power Nissan engines. (Check Automobile article for the G35C vs 330ci comparison)

When people dyno their G35 sedan and coupes on the FA forum. The same was performed on the MY350Z forum. The basic complaint was that the powertran loss on these new Nissans are about 17% (optimistic owners were expecting 15% from the manual) and that lower models such as Altima, G35 sedan are underrated. Base on several dyno results, the G35 sedan generally dynos in at 220(+5)whp, the G35 coupe around 230(+5)whp, and the 350Z around 235(+5)whp. Do a search on the FA forum or G35drivers forum to see more dyno results. Seems that the difference between G35 sedan and coupes are much less than 20hp, and 350Z dynos in around 5-10whp higher than the coupe. Quarter mile slips on the G35C have been right around 14.1-14.2, which is not too bad.

I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.

Hercules

Too bad you don't know anything about the RX-8 and you're still here?

*sigh*

Skyline Maniac

No offense Herc, just passing the note from fellow moderators.

Fellow members requested info regarding G35 dynos (which as far as I know, I am the most knowledgable person here) thus I post the information for the benefit of those who are interested. If you got anything to say to me, feel free to PM me~ (Can't guarantee I'll read them, but at least you won't look like an @)#$#$ on the forum)

btw: Does anyone here know how the Miata owners back in the 90's found out about the power issue and managed to get benefits form Mazda back then? It would be great to have an experienced Miata owner here to aid the RX-8 owners.

KyngNothing

Out of curiousity, are you on those boards, howling for Nissan to "make it right!!!"

Cuz that sounds like a familiar issue, and honestly the threads look exactly the same (really, you could replace the numbers, and names, and have the exact same arguments, even down to good performance numbers against not-so-pretty dyno's), but I missed the RX-8 people over there, calling on Nissan to fix their huge mistake...

Skyline Maniac

KyngNothing, well, at first we were somewhat concerned with the power issue on the VQ35DE engine. Once the dyno numbers came in though, it was pretty obvious the Nissan engines are more or less on target. 17% Powertran loss is pretty standard on the new 6MT sequential shifter and 2 piece drive shaft on our cars, so there is nothing to complain about. If our cars had dynoed with 30% power loss (under 200whp dyno) though~ you can bet we'd be making lots of noise.

Resident Nissan engineers (real Nissan employees who knew what they are talking about) on the G and Z forums explained the transmission loss coefficiency, drive shaft difference and intake difference between the G35 sedan, coupe and 350Z promptly. Everyone came out more informed and were pretty satisfied with the explaination. Now if Mazda would release a reasonable explaination regarding the power loss, I am sure we won't have to scream bloody murder here.

KyngNothing

How long did Nissan take to release those explanations?

Ps: apparently some people missed the explanation, as there are still threads bringing it up...

canzoomer

I *used* to own a Spec V.
Nissan claimed 185hp for those.
Actual dyno was 140 - 143.
That is 22.7% below.
Then they dropped the claim to 180hp
That is 20.555% loss.

If we assume 17% loss ( not unreasonable) we see 205whp.
As the dyno results we are getting vary from around 180 to 192, I do not think we have seen much definitive yet.

If we get around 200 I would be satisfied.


As I mentioned before on these forums, my RX-8 is pulling well above 6200rpm, so I do not have any big issues so far.
If anyone is expecting to see dyno runs above 200 I think they are either naive or overly hopeful.

Just my opionion..

Skyline Maniac

As I remember.... it was less than one week before both dealership representatives and Nissan engineers provided answers and dyno data. More user dynos rolled in after that to confirm their explanations, and people were happy after that. We had drag results, dyno results, tech explanations, and G-Tech pro numbers within a month. The original suspicion of the lack of power didn't arise from dyno data, but rather 'butt dyno' from some people who test drove the car.

Honestly, the C&D 5.5s on a loaded G35C model seems exaggerated IMO, as most other publications were getting around 5.7-5.8 on a base light model. We have had G35C owners running 14.0-14.1s on a strip, but they are expert racers with years of experience. Similarly, I would question the 5.9s figure on the preproduction RX-8 until we see some time slips from forum members. We need more data from everyone who owns a RX-8 to make a better evaluation. (no, stop watch numbers don't count, and G-Tech Pro alone is not enough. We had people reporting 0-60 on the G35C 5.3s on a G-Tch..... to me that;s just BS)

ProtoConVert

sequential shifter? What do you mean by this?

crazydrifter

if any of you are into car tv programs you might know about the uk program called Top Gear if not let me explain to you who they are...they are a group of 3 guys. one being an ex f1 racer another a tech guy and the third i think is just jo somebody...but anyways they usually test cars at full throtle around town and on the track... on their site about the RX-8 http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DE...Number=02.html they declare the 6 speed to have 228bhp...and they usually dyno the car and not declare what the car company states...so maybe this will help on the whole hp thing

P00Man

seeing as thats teh Euro model, its dead on accurate


edit:
actually, i think DEAD ON accurate would be 230bhp but 228 and 230 are the same