paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

yea I just meant for myself lol.

Posted From RX8Club.com Android App

ASH8

10W30W engine oil hey...so where is Jackson!..

Glad to know someone else (Star Mazda) knows which coloured Injectors go into an S2, as MNAO DON'T, their advice to their Mazda Dealers is appalling wrong (yet again)....been this way for over 10 months..

I did not want to post this 'M-tip', I have been sitting on it since January this year in the 'hope' it will be fixed, but, communication from myself and a few US Dealers I know have tried, it all falls on deaf ears @ MNAO, including the useless J Barnes...is it any wonder this Upper Managerial mob at MNAO all need sacking!....and yeah it make me mad!.

You have a "President" that is an old FORD hack!
The old Ivory Tower of management...BS castle!

You guys pick the error in this M-Tip..

ASH8

BTW, Unless Star Mazda uses a different Injector in the Secondary LIM Ports (N3R2-13-250) in production S2's RX-8's are actually Dark Red, not Brown?

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Lotsa good tidbits of data there... this slide jumped out at me moreso than the others. Hopefully it dispels the belief that there some magical combination of events controlling the SSV in the stock ECU.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Ash...

I have no idea what you just said.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Edit: apology to Ash, thought you were referring to Shelldudes statement about the SSV, which is incorrect.

They are using a MoTeC racing ECU, not an Rx8 PCM. So they are controlling everything directly, not something that can be done on an Rx8 with the Cobb AP etc.


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ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

^^^ this ... I'm not sure it was obvious to everyone ... didn't see it called out previously. team can you link back to the S1 version?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Shell, here is the information regarding the OEM operation of the valves for the street RX-8 (original pdf attached).

The street RX-8 is RPM only according to this.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Load and rpm, you are assuming that 1 + 1 = 3

ASH8

What is so hard to understand...

The Star Mazda PDF says secondary Injectors are Brown, well in factory S2's they are Dark Red,
perhaps they are using a different secondary injector...obviously...but they are using the S2 green Primary's..so I hope their information is correct.

I have genuine (OEM) parts stock of S2 Injectors for Series 2 Engines...they are Red and Green...
not Blue with Red or Green with Brown.

The MNAO 'M-Tip" I just uploaded has the wrong color Injectors listed for factory S2, Primary's are GREEN, not RED...Secondaries are Dark Red not Blue.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Not making any assumptions, especially about math.
Engine speed does not equal load.


As I said, "The street RX-8 is RPM only according to this."

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

They make it a point to mention the 4 port in that slide so I dunno if it's even S2 specific.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The PDF I attached is for S1, and they detail both 4 port and 6 port. Only place where both aren't referenced is in the RPM-opening chart at the bottom, which only references the 6-port. The PDF doesn't have a similar chart for the 4-port.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Your assumption is that they are telling you ALL the details, which they aren't

Raise your hood and have some start and run the engine from the driver seat while you watch the SSV actuator assembly. Tell them to slowly raise the rpm above 4000 - SSV doesn't move. Then tell them to wail on the engine hard with sharp WOT bursts - SSV actuates.

Here is a later post I made with several documents from the original Pro Mazda series using the S1 engine

https://www.rx8club.com/engine-tunin...3/#post3907774

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You are assuming that because I am posting a document and pointing out things that it says in the document that I am making assumptions about it. I have done nothing more than point out what it says. I'm not even making a statement of if I believe it or not.

No assumptions made at all on my end. Just yours.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

I was referring to the injectors slide in the star mazda pdf regarding injector colors.

I've referenced the diagram you posted previously ... didn't help to convince some otherwise .... thanks RIWWP!

I agree with team to an extent here. Load is certainly taken into account but I'm not sure to what extent.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, I expect that load can prompt them to open before the stated RPM, but also that they will open by the stated rpm regardless of load.

ASH8

Shell, here is their (SM) PDF where they say they are phasing out the 6 injectors in 2010 to the 4...I assume it is S2 (most of it) as S1's never had green injectors...but yeah..agree.

Got to go, Bathurst 1000 is about to start now..50 years old.

Edit...Even this 2010 info on the use of 4 Injector colours is back to front to what is in the August 2012 PDF??

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

The debate about the load dynamic on port actuation seems to defy common sense. Taking load into this equation is useless, I'm not saying it does or does not differentiate between actuation of the ports or not I'm saying it is useless to worry about it. When acceleration of a certain rpm is achieved it will trigger the solenoids to engage opening the different ports at different ranges, from readin the PDF it notes that these actuators have about a 500rpm buffer meaning the close at a lower rpm then they opened. With all of this in mind if you are entering the given rpm range of these ports it is due to acceleration which in turn is a load. Who cares if these actuators open or close during none load revs your not going anywhere if your not under load why do you care how many ports are open. In this instance both variables go hand in hand. And it seems unnecessary to be concerned with load, fact is if your not under load your not doing anything relevant to require additional intake volum.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

For the Star Mazda cars, yes, I'd say that anything dealing with partial load activation of the valves is pretty much a moot point. If you want full power, you have the pedal to the floor. Anything other than full power needed and the valve alignment isn't really all that important, since you are still going to use the gas pedal by feel of how much power you need at the moment, regardless of what the valve configuration currently is. If it's not optimal configuration, you will just have the pedal down a bit further is all.

For the OEM ECU, Team is correct in that there does appear to be a load based component to the activation, simply because of how the valves respond. Mazda's official documentation doesn't appear to back this up anywhere that I have found, but that is probably because they didn't feel that it needed to be published. For street cars, I would think the only reason partial load valve configuration would matter would be for cruising economy.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

oh geez... I'm sorry Ash8, but now that you pointed it, I do remember reading about there only being 4 injectors at some point with the S2s.

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

I'm wondering if the engine damage is solely from the fuel and spark cut on throttle lift? I can't imagine Mazda would put a car out that can damage itself by going through the normal rev range. I think I'll be keeping it below 9k on the dial just in case....

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Did you not read the whole statement about fuel and spark cut?

And this is referring to the race car still, which has a different ECU and different rev cut point than our street cars. That being said, shifting in the 8,000s and not crossing 9,000 is still a good idea for us.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Thoroughly enjoyed reading the PDF and the thread while having my morning coffee.

Thanks all

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Since you clearly have noted a personal expectation I can then concretely inform you that your expectation is wrong. I previously informed you how to confirm this for yourself. The SSV will not open prior to the condition occurring that requires the secondary P2 injectors to come on line. Regardless of the rpm, if there is insufficient load, such as revving the engine slowly higher and higher in neutral, the P2 injectors will not come into play and the SSV will not open.

Instead of hiding behind silly word games and making guesses why not try doing something productive like trying it out and then come report what you observed ....

according to your expectation the SSV will open at 3750 rpm regardless. Maybe every Renesis I have personally observed free revving above this is malfunctioning

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