paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Not lying here, when i bought my 8 the dealer told me i dont need an oil change till then as well ... i was like 'wtf'

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

heres the thing. the best oils for your car are extremely high in zinc like rotella t. zinc is also a culprit in destroying cats. I was told by an engineer at hendricks when I first started driving that the additives and detergents in all oils wear out in 2000-3000 miles for engines with cats. they do use much higher zinc level in oils for diesels and older cars because you don't need to worry about cat burnouts. I change my oil every 2500 miles. If you want to do the reading for yourself though look up Chemical activity of antiwear additives for oils.

Woody77

I used it when I switched a Pathfinder from dino to synth at roughly 150K miles, and when I switch a Dodge Ram at roughly 50K miles.

Both vehicles typically had dark-maple-syrup colored oil when draining for a service. After running the flush (mostly kerosene, IIRC), it was more like blackstrap molasses (but thin).

The Amsoil synth that went in (and/or the flush) made a major difference on idle quality for both vehicles. The pathfinder's oil would drain as clear as it went in from then until it finally lost it's exhaust and cat to rust (250K+ miles).

The flush directions clearly states not to rev the engine, and certainly not to drive it while it's idling to circulate the stuff through the system.

No experience with it in a rotary. I personally wouldn't use it until I had a rotary-specialist mechanic and a oil engineer have a good long talk about the effects in an engine and the apex seals... But I'm just cautious about such stuff, especially as most US mechanics probably have never heard of a rotary engine.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

^ Thanks. Might be good to use if you are high mileage and nothing to lose. Not for me though

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Myth.
Zinc was a stop-gap measure back in the day when street cars were still transitioning from flat tappets.
Today's oils have very little use for large amounts of zinc.

tony.colombo

I use royal purple in gearbox,engine, and rear diff very happy its not much but to me it does feel smoother

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

it will ruin your transmission--over some time.
Engine--ok i guess
diff-- ok

On the Z/P additive--I like those in my catless car.
I understand what MM is saying and he is right. But that lodgic is mostly given by people that work/drive/modify recip engines and dealing with cats.
I am under the impression that the stationary gears/flat bearings in our engine can benefit from a higher Z/P additive package?
Has anyone measured any wear on the stationary gears? You dont hear much talk about those things?
Gear to gear contact like that is hard on an engine oil?
OD

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

The only thing I have seen anyone measure is the viscosity over time, but the additives over time I have not seen measured by anyone. At least as far back as I have read.

As for measuring the bearings, gears, position sensor, plates, and other parts. There haven't been a lot of published tear downs on here. I have found a couple, and at what mileage should the tear down be done? I also know that breaking in an engine on synthetics is an incredibly horrible idea, so how was the engine broke in? What kind of fuel was used with what percentage of ethanol? There is just to many variables here.

Woody77

Blackstone probably has that data, as the additive package shows up in the oil analysis. Now if they'll hand it out someone I don't know. Maybe to the BHR or RB guys that have done some longer-term testing studies with Blackstone on fluids they use in their test cars.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

How so? Please enlighten me.

rz-jacks

it makes it harder for the parts to "wear in" because synthetics are usually better at wear protection that normal motor oil.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

Royal purple and Amsoil both state its a bad idea. Royal purple makes a mineral based regular oil for breaking an engine in and Amsoil provides this:

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d...._to_amsoil.htm

I can remember when I worked for GMC that they actually sold new cars with break in oil in them. It was a reddish color and we changed it at 500 miles.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

many many synthetic oil company said (Royal purple included) they do not recommend using Synthetic oil for break-in's.

who gives a ****, 1/2 the "Full Synthetic" oils are "fake"(Grp III) anyway. I use those for break-ins. I think its perfectly fine

Cuz even those are not "real" Synthetic, its still better than most of the regular stuff + most of the time these "fake" Synthetic stuff cost just a bit more than regular stuff. I don't see why not.

after the couple thousand miles switch back to the real deal. thats all.

rotarygod

When you "break in" and engine, you are basically letting many components self clearance themselves by rubbing against each other until they are perfectly flat. Normally we don't want anything touching each other. However we wouldn't have good compression if everything wasn't clearanced well. The only exception to the break in rule is the bearings. Bearings do not break in and should NEVER touch!!! If we are using a good oil that protects well, the engine has a harder time breaking in as the components just don't want to touch. The solution is to use an oil that protects a bit less desirably during this period.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I ran the factory fill and followed the RB break in procedure for the first 1500 miles before switching to GC 0W-30. But if 5W-20 is really a synthetic anyway so is there really any weight to the idea that synthetic is bad during break in?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Been common proceedure (for the reasons RG mentioned) since i can remember

Woody77

Except that all the high performance cars (truly high performance cars) come factory-filled with synthetic.

As the pars "self-clearance", they're just wet-sanding themselves with oil as the lubricant. Probably gives a really nice finish, as it's well-cooled during the process.

If you doubt this, go take some 2000+ grit wet-dry sandpaper, some bar-stock steel, and some synthetic oil of choice. Go to town on the bar, you'll see that it still sands. This is still happening at a micro level in an engine.

http://blackhaloracing.com/technical...nding-oil-103/

That stribeck curve explains it pretty well. As the parts you want to wear-in are wearing in, the contact pressure is extremely high on the rough surfaces. Plus, the contact velocity of something like a ring or apex seal is nearly 0. There's no rolling motion to setup the wedge of hydrodynamic lubrication, but there is enough roughness to allow oil into the gap, but there's enough "tooth" on the rings and cylinders that they'll still push through the film level and wear against each other, regardless of synthetic or not.

The additives, however, could very well make a difference, due to how they bond with the surfaces, and specifically how they "plate" up the microscopic valleys in the surfaces. Moly is a good example. But, these are still making a very smooth, well-sealing surface (by filling the valleys as much as the peaks are being worn off).

rotarygod

Most of your engine "break in" is done in the first 20 miles! ALL engines today are run for a period at the factory before they are installed in cars thereby "breaking them in" before you ever get it. Most new cars have about 10 miles or so on them by the time you get them anyways so most of the work is done for you. When you buy it, just floor it off the lot and leave a pair of tire marks down the road as you leave. You'll be fine. When you get the car home for the first time, immediately change the oil. If anyone doubts the validity of this, send a sample of your brand new engine oil to Blackstone labs for a test. You'll be absolutely shocked at the percentage of wear metals present in that first few miles. If you got those same oil results at 100K on the engine, they'd be telling you that your engine is about to die or that you need to change your oil more often!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I watched the Super Factory show on History channel on how they build Porsches and and the episode on how they build Corvettes and both cars get dynoed prior to sale just make sure power output is where it is supposed to be. I was surprised to see them roll it up on the dyno and flog it right off the assembly line.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

We are talking about a rotary car here.
No reason to inject fantasy into the discussion.

Pico

iTrader: (2)

Their ATF is much more reliable than the manual fluids

Woody77

The SAE specs for how to measure engine output (crank) on an engine dyno also include how to break in the engine from assembly. They used to use a very aggressive, high-rpm/load break-in to get a less "tight" engine, which has less internal friction (and more hp). Not as good of a break-in procedure for an engine that you want to seal well for better mileage (higher loads at lower rpms).

The SAE revised this a few years ago, and it caused a bit of a stink because some engines saw some BIG drops in rated crank output as a result.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Maybe that is why the RX-8 was rated at like 250+ when it first came out.