[QUOTE=Delmeister;2570383]Don't knock the math --- the assumptions for sure. Garbage in, garbage out.QUOTE]

My math is a lot simpler. On the highway I use about 1 quart per 3000 miles. Comes down to roughly 1 drop per minute. Hard to imagine that happening in forceful spurts, but I don't know what the duty cycle is. Maybe it "saves it up".

But in any case I normally bring it up when people talk about the oil being "injected into the combustion chamber", because that conjures visions of something working similarly and in parallel with the fuel injectors. I.e., one would imagine some constant cloud of oil droplets. The 1 drop per minute visualization is a useful antidote to that concept. This engine is very miserly with oil. In operation I'd still wager it most often resembles a dribble, just on principle. The engineers would want to minimize the amount of oil "wasted" in the combustion flow.

 

"The perfect is the enemy of the good" -- Voltaire

 

Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien, mais ...

 

[QUOTE=Nubo;2570915]You can divide that drop into 50 parts or so for the volume/injection.

 

Did anyone ever have to replace their catalytic converter from using the MMO or Idemitsu?

I stopped using the premix for about 3000 miles, which in the beginning I didn't notice much difference, but I just started back using the MMO. Not only it feels smoother, I do get a little better gas mileage. I think, though, the Idemitsu Premix feels smoother than the MMO. I want to definitely keep using the premix if it won't mess up the catalytic converter.

 

While I prefer straight MMO as my premix, you could try a 50/50 mix of MMO and Idemitsu if you like the "smoother" feel.

As for Catalyst affects for MMO, I know of MANY that have used MMO 100-300k miles and never replaced their catalyst, with one that has to pass a smog sniffer test each year and has 250k on his Ford van and still passes (which shows the catalyst is still working). I have never heard of a cat failure using MMO.

As for Idemitsu, I think it is one of the safest of the 2-cycles I know of and am confident that it would not do any harm unless used in excess. This cannot necessarily be said of all 2-cycles, as many are designed for use in motorcycles/snowmobiles/boats that do not have catalysts to worry about, so make sure any others you use are cat-safe.

I do know that AMSOIL Saber Pro and Bel-Ray SI-7 (not the other Bel-Ray Products) are safe. TCW3 2-cycles are required to be ashless by specification, so most should be safe as the metallic additives (that cause the ash) are the usual culprits in harming the cats (usually though ash/deposit build-up).

 

^as jax mentioned, i use bel ray SI-7 and it is safe and really good synthetic... Do not use the other Bel-Ray stuff, probably will mess up the cat... I ust 6-7 ounces per full tank and that is close to the 1/2 oz per gal that Old Dragger mentions.. car runnign good so far (fingers crossed)..

 

TCW3 2-cycles are required to be ashless by specification

TCW -III oils only provide protection to metal up to about 300 degrees F, the temp that boat motor piston rings reach, due to the enormous cooling on marine engines.

They are vapor at the temps on a rotor face.

TC rated oils are much more suitable.

TCW oils don't usually have the stability to pass the JASO or EG-D specs, they are cheap junk - but feel free to use them, the vapor they degrade to won't lubricate, but it won't do any harm either......

 

Stealth is correct and I totally agree that TCW (for the marine specifications) oils protect better and handle heat better than TCW3 oils - but they do produce more ash and other deposits in the process. I would not agree that TCW3 provide no protection, but it is less than a TCW oil.

Essentially you have the trade-off in 2-cycles oils of "Better Protection with more deposits/ash" or " Less Protection with less deposits/ash".


That is why I think so many use Idemitsu Rotary Premix - it is a pretty good trade-off among 2-cycles. It is NOT TCW3 rated because it is low-ash oil (not no ash) so it does not leave behind too many deposits, but does protect very well as it is JASO FC+ rated (has not been tested for JASO FD last I checked, but would likely pass and thus why the + on the rating).

You really are better off looking for a JASO FC or FD, or Euro spec EGD rated oils for the best assurance of protection

 

This has worked well for me:

http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8/index_faq.htm

 

Good stuff - made for the job.

S

 

Earlier in this serpentine thread some people had pictures of some kind of flaking or distillate settling out of this Protek stuff. Didn't look good. Anyone ever figure that out?

 

I've just finished working my way through my first big jug of MMO. I should probably pull the plugs just to take a look...

A friend of ours is going to have a test where she swallows a pill and it takes pictures all the way through her gut. Wonder if I could bribe her to let me send that pill for a 1-revolution ride on each rotor.

Is there anything to be gained from a borescope examination of a rotary?

 

So what's the verdict? Any adverse effects seen from Protek? Or is it solid? I am considering starting to premix soon, and am between Idemitsu (for being generally well spoken of constantly) and Protek (I am running FI and it seems made for the job).

And quick question I bet has been covered, does premixing in general clog up the fuel filter faster? Do some clog it up worse than others?

Also, people talk about ash and all. How big of a deal is the added ash anyway? Will a treatment of a cleaner like BG44K etc every once in a while keep it in check? We should all probably give our engine a periodic cleaning with the mazda cleaner or seafoam, etc. anyway. I'll be doing that for the first time next month.

 

premix doesn't clog anything.

I use 4oz of idemitsu and 2oz of fp+

and for sohn adapter, I use half a quart of idemitsu, and half a quart of 5w20 or 5w30 dino oil.

 

hmm... along with the price/quantity I can get through Mazdatrix I think that Idemitsu is the smart way to go. Even on my car as a daily driver being as wasteful as possible, this would last me well over a year for a case! Where's the best place to get FP+? (That is a detergent type additive right? Helps keep it clean?)

 

http://lubecontrol.com/products_fuel_power.php

it lasts a long time.

i also sometimes add lc20 to crank case oil.

 

All of these products are miscible in gasoline. But, imho, the more products you mix together, the greater the chance of forming gels/gums/waxes. I'd stick to a single product instead of trying to concoct a pre-mix cocktail.

 

i traded in my 05 for an 09. what are the thoughts about continuing with pre mixing? i traded at 62000 and didn't have any problems except with the trany. I was puting in 5 oz per tank.

 

If I had an '09, I would be less concerned about using a 2-cycle oil since there i
s a third oil 'injector' for the center of each apex seal.

However, I would still add about 1 oz of FP+ per 10 gal of gas at each fill-up to help prevent carbon build-up.

 

i understand the thread but im having troubles figuring out the numbers, so say for a full tank of gas on my car (04' rx8) how much 2 stroke should i add.... of what would be the best combination of 2 stroke and gas!

 

Most companies like Pettit Racing, recommend 4oz per tank for a daily driving car. Now some of us run more depending on what the car is being used for...now in our race cars we run 1oz per gallon of gas. Strictly because the motor stays around the 7-9000 rpm range for nearly 3 hrs at a time.

 

are your engines lasting longer that your piston engined competitors ?

 

yall are still running the mop arent ya? I cant remember
OD

 

I'll just throw this out here:

http://www.shop.pricechemical.com/pr...6&productId=24

This will lean out a rich mixture and increase octane with no changes to the ECU flash, and when that tank of gas is gone, you are back to the original A/F ratio.

PS: I am already spraying Nitromethane in the Methanol cooling.....