Gas/Oil Premix Thread
08-10-2005, 09:48 AM
#26
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It would be nice to see a picture of two engines with and without the premix to see if there's any difference between them.
Last edited by faffy; 08-12-2005 at 12:35 AM.
08-13-2005, 02:54 AM
#27
Super Moderator
What the hell are you trying to do here, re-invent the bloody wheel!!!
Mazda have been developing the rotary long before many of you were born!...
YOU ARE NOT THE EXPERTS you think you are!..
Just put the correct engine oil and fuel in your 8 and let the Metering Oil Pump do its job.
External pumps with tanks, what a load of crap, a rotary is NOT a Kawasaki 2 stroke!
DONT use any PRE Mixes!
Mazda have been developing the rotary long before many of you were born!...
YOU ARE NOT THE EXPERTS you think you are!..
Just put the correct engine oil and fuel in your 8 and let the Metering Oil Pump do its job.
External pumps with tanks, what a load of crap, a rotary is NOT a Kawasaki 2 stroke!
DONT use any PRE Mixes!
08-13-2005, 12:33 PM
#29
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So to summarize, you are using synthetic motor oil & you add pre-mix to your gas as well?
What brand and weight of motor oil are you using?
What brand and type of premix?
I also want this car to run for a long time and may consider some premix as well - FP was going to be too much to import into Canada, although I KNOW we have lots of snowmobile oils up here!
What brand and weight of motor oil are you using?
What brand and type of premix?
I also want this car to run for a long time and may consider some premix as well - FP was going to be too much to import into Canada, although I KNOW we have lots of snowmobile oils up here!
Originally Posted by StealthTL
....and I also add a dose of polyisobutylene as a super-lube. :D
S
S
08-13-2005, 08:28 PM
#30
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
Premix.....
I use a good 2-stroke oil (ISO-EGD rated, and definitely not boat oil TCW-3)
TCW oil is for boats, so let's compare a boat engine and a rotary engine -
Outboards run in lakes and use a once-thru cooling system; this means the water jacket has no problem maintaining the cylinder wall temp around 5 degrees C, and the ring-land temp well below250 degrees. An 'ashless' oil is a very heavy basestock, with nitrogen based hydrazine as a wear protector. Hydrazine only works well at these really cool temps and vaporizes leaving no 'ash'.
TCW is designed to be run in high ratios (30:1) and not to burn, but to be slobbered out into the lake - hence the addition of biodegrading agents, which hurt lubricity.
The term 'ashless' is a total misnomer - if the oil does actually burn it can leave horrendous carbon deposits.
TCW is not designed to be run in hot-running, highly tuned, highly stressed or high revving motors.
Boat engine designs cannot have reed valves, catalytic convertors or anything else that can get gummed up.
A modern two stroke engine (Rotax or Skidoo) uses an oil that admittedly produces an white powdery metallic 'ash' when it burns, but this is not a problem due to the velocities in the chamber. (nobody has ever seen an engine clog up with white powder!) and their makers warranties absolutely forbid the use of TCW - it is just not up to the job.
The rotor in our engine runs hot, revs very high and has lots of small gaps and seals to hold carbon and gunk. It has much more in common with a Rotax type of two-stroke rather than an outboard.
The single job of our oil is to prevent the tip seals wearing away the chrome from the housings.
We need an oil that burns away leaving minimal deposits, but essentially has the highest lubricity.
The JASO series of oil tests is fascinating reading, even if you know the subject - they use Yamaha 200cc test engines and basically run them on leaner and leaner ratios until they seize, then extrapolate how well the oil protected the internals, how much smoke was produced, deposits etc.
I do have a little background in lubrication, thirty plus years in a synthetics refinery.
I would however be interested in the opinions of any experienced rotary mechanics, who have examined wear patterns on housings; I think that if the oil film protection seen around and after the injection points could be achieved all around the circumference of the chromed face, the results would be tangible. The chrome surface has been electro-perforated, to form a matrix for the oil to adsorb into, but there is just insufficient oil present, from the stock pump, to achieve these benefits.
S
TCW oil is for boats, so let's compare a boat engine and a rotary engine -
Outboards run in lakes and use a once-thru cooling system; this means the water jacket has no problem maintaining the cylinder wall temp around 5 degrees C, and the ring-land temp well below250 degrees. An 'ashless' oil is a very heavy basestock, with nitrogen based hydrazine as a wear protector. Hydrazine only works well at these really cool temps and vaporizes leaving no 'ash'.
TCW is designed to be run in high ratios (30:1) and not to burn, but to be slobbered out into the lake - hence the addition of biodegrading agents, which hurt lubricity.
The term 'ashless' is a total misnomer - if the oil does actually burn it can leave horrendous carbon deposits.
TCW is not designed to be run in hot-running, highly tuned, highly stressed or high revving motors.
Boat engine designs cannot have reed valves, catalytic convertors or anything else that can get gummed up.
A modern two stroke engine (Rotax or Skidoo) uses an oil that admittedly produces an white powdery metallic 'ash' when it burns, but this is not a problem due to the velocities in the chamber. (nobody has ever seen an engine clog up with white powder!) and their makers warranties absolutely forbid the use of TCW - it is just not up to the job.
The rotor in our engine runs hot, revs very high and has lots of small gaps and seals to hold carbon and gunk. It has much more in common with a Rotax type of two-stroke rather than an outboard.
The single job of our oil is to prevent the tip seals wearing away the chrome from the housings.
We need an oil that burns away leaving minimal deposits, but essentially has the highest lubricity.
The JASO series of oil tests is fascinating reading, even if you know the subject - they use Yamaha 200cc test engines and basically run them on leaner and leaner ratios until they seize, then extrapolate how well the oil protected the internals, how much smoke was produced, deposits etc.
I do have a little background in lubrication, thirty plus years in a synthetics refinery.
I would however be interested in the opinions of any experienced rotary mechanics, who have examined wear patterns on housings; I think that if the oil film protection seen around and after the injection points could be achieved all around the circumference of the chromed face, the results would be tangible. The chrome surface has been electro-perforated, to form a matrix for the oil to adsorb into, but there is just insufficient oil present, from the stock pump, to achieve these benefits.
S
08-13-2005, 11:01 PM
#31
Go Texas Longhorns!
Pettit Racing swears by pre-mixing even with the OMP working. They torn down a 20K engine with some 8K from the supercharger to see how it was holding up. They reported that they could not detect any wear on the housings.
Just FYI.
I've been premixing since we've been playing with the MS ECU just to be on the safe side.
Just FYI.
I've been premixing since we've been playing with the MS ECU just to be on the safe side.
08-13-2005, 11:11 PM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
It looks like you have a good program going there StealthTl 
GC should be a good match for the RX8. All of the GC around Houston has been snatched up by some of the BITOG members, or I would be tempted to try it. I would be interested in seeing a UOA on your RX8 with GC :D
GC should be a good match for the RX8. All of the GC around Houston has been snatched up by some of the BITOG members, or I would be tempted to try it. I would be interested in seeing a UOA on your RX8 with GC :D
08-14-2005, 09:57 AM
#34
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I'm sorry but I don't know what GC is... I've never heard of an oil that has that name (or is this a pet name for a certain oil?)
Originally Posted by OMCWankel
It looks like you have a good program going there StealthTl
GC should be a good match for the RX8. All of the GC around Houston has been snatched up by some of the BITOG members, or I would be tempted to try it. I would be interested in seeing a UOA on your RX8 with GC :D
GC should be a good match for the RX8. All of the GC around Houston has been snatched up by some of the BITOG members, or I would be tempted to try it. I would be interested in seeing a UOA on your RX8 with GC :D
08-14-2005, 09:58 AM
#35
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Fill it until the oil reaches the top level on the engine oil dipstick. (maybe you will need 1/8 quart of oil per fillup, maybe not)
If you have just drained your oil and replaced the filter you will need between 4 and 5 quarts.
If you have just drained your oil and replaced the filter you will need between 4 and 5 quarts.
Originally Posted by EyeBall Fixer...(o)(x)
For us "Rotary Retards"....
How much oil should I add when I fill up (approx 12.5 to 13.0 gal)?
How much oil should I add when I fill up (approx 12.5 to 13.0 gal)?
08-14-2005, 10:09 AM
#36
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Ah, never mind, I found out that it is 'German Castrol' 0W30... 
Originally Posted by Flop
I'm sorry but I don't know what GC is... I've never heard of an oil that has that name (or is this a pet name for a certain oil?)
08-14-2005, 10:12 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by Flop
Fill it until the oil reaches the top level on the engine oil dipstick. (maybe you will need 1/8 quart of oil per fillup, maybe not)
If you have just drained your oil and replaced the filter you will need between 4 and 5 quarts.
If you have just drained your oil and replaced the filter you will need between 4 and 5 quarts.
08-14-2005, 10:16 AM
#38
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lol... oops!
It was recommended to put it at a 250:1 ratio from a few people on here. That'd be around 250ml per fill
Sorry!
It was recommended to put it at a 250:1 ratio from a few people on here. That'd be around 250ml per fill
Sorry!
Originally Posted by PaulieWalnuts
Flop, I think he means how much goes in the gas. I'd like to know this too.
08-14-2005, 01:52 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Flop
lol... oops!
It was recommended to put it at a 250:1 ratio from a few people on here. That'd be around 250ml per fill
Sorry!
It was recommended to put it at a 250:1 ratio from a few people on here. That'd be around 250ml per fill
Sorry!
4 oz in 10 gal is 320:1
6 oz in 10 gal is 213:1
8 oz in 10 gal is 160:1
More than that is getting into ratios that would require the OMP to be disconnected, to avoid over oiling.
08-14-2005, 08:16 PM
#42
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I have been using 160:1 mix of TC-3 synthetic outboard 2 cycle oil since car was new , now it has 21000 miles and is doing great, very smooth idle, only observation is the stron rotary smell when idling, no smoke as this oil is designed to burn with minimal residue, I use to rev the engine to 8000-9000 RPMs very frecuently.
08-14-2005, 10:26 PM
#43
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I was at the local Canadian tire and found a case of GC today! I am pretty excited, M04 batch too, so it IS green - 0w30. Paid 7.49 CDN
I'll be on the hunt for more now!
I'll be on the hunt for more now!
08-16-2005, 09:57 AM
#44
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The best 2-stroke oil I have ever used in any of my 2-stroke atvs is AMSOIL, the stuff is amazing all of there syn oils are the best we ever used at a performance shop I used to work at.
08-16-2005, 12:23 PM
#45
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Well, I tried "Penzoil" 2 cycle oil at about 160:1. I'll try 200:1 next my tankful.
No smoke but my exhaust does have the faint smell which reminds me of my WeedEater...
I have noticed a smoother idle and I'm anxious to measure my mpg!
I regularly get 10 to 12 mpg and with fuel prices edging toward $3.00 a gallon,
I'll take any help I can get!
Al
No smoke but my exhaust does have the faint smell which reminds me of my WeedEater...
I have noticed a smoother idle and I'm anxious to measure my mpg!
I regularly get 10 to 12 mpg and with fuel prices edging toward $3.00 a gallon,
I'll take any help I can get!
Al
08-18-2005, 11:05 PM
#47
INDY RX8 CLUB - Officer
Picked up some LUCAS UCL (Upper Cylinder Lube). If this stuff actually works as it claims, wouldn't it be overkill to add 2 stroke oil? After all, it bills itself as a gasoline compatable lubricant... ?
08-22-2005, 05:04 PM
#48
09-05-2006, 06:44 PM
#50
I have been using a blend of lucas upper cylinder lube/injector cleaner and Maxima K2 2 stroke racing full synthetic premix at a ratio of 50/50. I mix that and then add 1/2 oz (of that blend) per gallon of 93 octane gas. I will have to re-study this after I get the T flash.
olddragger
olddragger