Finally, Engine Rebuild and…rooommmm, back to street!!
11-30-2015, 10:25 AM
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Finally, Engine Rebuild and…rooommmm, back to street!!
After a year with my RX-8 practically worn out, finished my rebuild last week. Following are some of the details: symptoms, rebuild costs, additional parts replacement and other.
Initial Data and Condition
My Rx-8 is 2004, brilliant black, manual transmission, and at the time of the rebuild was 140,000 miles. I bought it 0 miles. The only and few mods were:
Since the purchasing of the car, noted a weird way for start-ups. Since it was my first and only rotary, thought it was normal. Anyway,the same has been very reliable during all this 11 years, except for the couple of flood events. Never ask for compression test results but dealer always stated the compression was ok.
About a year ago I noted that it began losing power up-the-hill and no matter the gas pedal was down, I have to shift down. Although, it kept starting up and moving around everywhere. Then, it began heavy start-up difficulties when on short runs, as stopping to put gas in the tank. Also noticed a small oil leak, which initially thought it was from the oil pan but resulted it was also from the front engine oil seal. So, finally I stopped it for about six months. Nevertheless,I kept starting it up and giving some ridesaround the block.
At that moment, I got very mixed feelings between sell it or repair it. Finally decided to keep my RX-8 and do an engine rebuild by myself. Three things motivated me: how much I like the RX-8 and the way it runs and handle, not having or knowing of a trusty shop that doesn’t mess around with my new parts and the chance to learn during the rebuilding process. The counterpart was the costs involved but afterwards, if I sell it probably would get very few bucks in the condition it was.
Initial Data and Condition
My Rx-8 is 2004, brilliant black, manual transmission, and at the time of the rebuild was 140,000 miles. I bought it 0 miles. The only and few mods were:
- Suspension: initially Racing Beat springs with Tokico shocks, and later and current Tein coilovers
- Exhaust: Racing Beat catback and BHR Midpipe/Cathalyst
- Ignition: BHR kit
- Starter: replaced for a new OEM one, at aprox 40,000 miles, the original one was very weak
- Radiator: replaced with a Koyo all aluminum
- Battery: replaced with Yellow-top Optima
Since the purchasing of the car, noted a weird way for start-ups. Since it was my first and only rotary, thought it was normal. Anyway,the same has been very reliable during all this 11 years, except for the couple of flood events. Never ask for compression test results but dealer always stated the compression was ok.
About a year ago I noted that it began losing power up-the-hill and no matter the gas pedal was down, I have to shift down. Although, it kept starting up and moving around everywhere. Then, it began heavy start-up difficulties when on short runs, as stopping to put gas in the tank. Also noticed a small oil leak, which initially thought it was from the oil pan but resulted it was also from the front engine oil seal. So, finally I stopped it for about six months. Nevertheless,I kept starting it up and giving some ridesaround the block.
At that moment, I got very mixed feelings between sell it or repair it. Finally decided to keep my RX-8 and do an engine rebuild by myself. Three things motivated me: how much I like the RX-8 and the way it runs and handle, not having or knowing of a trusty shop that doesn’t mess around with my new parts and the chance to learn during the rebuilding process. The counterpart was the costs involved but afterwards, if I sell it probably would get very few bucks in the condition it was.
Last edited by japlaza787; 11-30-2015 at 11:41 AM.
11-30-2015, 10:27 AM
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Costs
In my case, these costs include shipping to PR and sometimes it’s pretty expensive. Also, please be aware that rebuild cost will vary depending to what you plan to rebuild/replace. I decided to replace some additional parts such as a couple of the wiring harnesses, clutch and pressure plate, water pump,and the thermostat. Also decided to replace both rotor housings basically because of the accumulated mileage, although once the old ones were inspected,these were not so bad.
The following table summarizes the costs incurred for my case:
TOOLS (important tohave) $/u
Flywheel nut tool 71.60
Flywheel stopper 26.50
Pilot bearing & Engine dowel tool 177.00
Micrometer 13.00
Cooling jacket seal tester 77.00
Instructional DVD 34.14
TOOLS SUBTOTAL $399.24
PARTS
Engine(Required)
Engine rebuild kit 1,465.00
Thrust bearings, water pump,
gasket kit, o-ring kit 505.18
rotor housings 1,514.15
Additional O-rings and Tranny seals 97.00
Subtotal $3,581.33
Other Parts
Clutch kit (exedy) 179.99
Thermostat (have a spare) n/a
Wiringharnesses (battery/starter, ps) 419.90
Subtotal $599.89
Miscellaneous
atv, threadlock, etc 73.00
PARTS SUBTOTAL $4,254.22
GRAND TOTAL $4,653.46
In my case, these costs include shipping to PR and sometimes it’s pretty expensive. Also, please be aware that rebuild cost will vary depending to what you plan to rebuild/replace. I decided to replace some additional parts such as a couple of the wiring harnesses, clutch and pressure plate, water pump,and the thermostat. Also decided to replace both rotor housings basically because of the accumulated mileage, although once the old ones were inspected,these were not so bad.
The following table summarizes the costs incurred for my case:
TOOLS (important tohave) $/u
Flywheel nut tool 71.60
Flywheel stopper 26.50
Pilot bearing & Engine dowel tool 177.00
Micrometer 13.00
Cooling jacket seal tester 77.00
Instructional DVD 34.14
TOOLS SUBTOTAL $399.24
PARTS
Engine(Required)
Engine rebuild kit 1,465.00
Thrust bearings, water pump,
gasket kit, o-ring kit 505.18
rotor housings 1,514.15
Additional O-rings and Tranny seals 97.00
Subtotal $3,581.33
Other Parts
Clutch kit (exedy) 179.99
Thermostat (have a spare) n/a
Wiringharnesses (battery/starter, ps) 419.90
Subtotal $599.89
Miscellaneous
atv, threadlock, etc 73.00
PARTS SUBTOTAL $4,254.22
GRAND TOTAL $4,653.46
Last edited by japlaza787; 11-30-2015 at 11:48 AM.
11-30-2015, 11:20 AM
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The Process
The recommendable way to rebuild is to take the engine out, disassemble it and once verified every part, then put your parts order. In my case, I took the risk of getting rotor housings in advance due to my RX-8 mileage. In addition, I decided to put all seals and springs new, including the oil seals mostly due to the high mileage. Also, I got the help of my neighbor.
Before doing anything, I gather a lot of information: vids of engine removal from youtube, searched here in the forum and read and analyze the available threads and comments/recommendations, especially the ones from Rotary Resurrection regarding taking out the engine and the one to tear down it. These werevery helpful. Also gathered and analyzed info on how to do the rebuild: got instructional dvd, got a couple of very good vids from youtubeand so on, and the RX-8 oem servicing manuals.
Taking the engine out was straight forward. The worst part was dealing with the a/c compressor, the oil lines and disconnecting every plastic connector. The oil lines were really stuck and regarding the connectors, we were lucky that only broke lightly two of these. After 140k miles, all plastics trends to be toasted. Also, we decided to take the tranny out, although we did it separated from the engine. For every part, we save the bolts/nuts with the part removed or in its original location after removing thepart.
Tearing down the engine was pretty simple. Again, plastic connectors were a challenge and also dealing with the engine harness in order to remember how it runs. We took our time to identify all connectors, although noticed that most of them match uniquely based on form or color. The ones to be careful with are the fuel injectors and the coils. Injectors are four or six depending on your model, and coils are four. There are also two equal white connectors and two equal black connectors that run to the mid of the tranny.
The engine core disassembly was quite simple. Having the proper tools to deal with the flywheel is essential. The Main Hub Bolt also was a big challenge. The only way we were able to took it out was applying heat with a soldering torch and using a long pipe with a breaking bar. After that, we spent a couple of days cleaning all parts to be reused.
Putting everything back together went well although I ended up damaging four of the new side seals during the cutting process. So, have to order a couple of extra side seals. In order to cut these, initially I used a grinding stone and a dremel, but found out the best way was using my bench drill with a grind drill bit. It allowed holding properly the seal while grinding thus reaching the proper angle toward the corner seal. Side seals were adjusted to keep a total gap toward the corner seals between .05 and .10 mm (.002 and .004 in).
After assembly the engine core, we tested the water jacket seal with air pressure at 30 psi for 15 minutes. Thereafter, completed the assembly of external parts. Also put on new clutch and pressure plate.
Finally, mate engine with the tranny out of the car and put these backtogether as one piece. Sorry my friends, we were so concentrate in the job that didn’t took more photos. But here in the forum are various photos posted by TeamRX8 showing the process. The only difference was that we took the hood out for a while, to facilitate the process and avoid any damage.
The recommendable way to rebuild is to take the engine out, disassemble it and once verified every part, then put your parts order. In my case, I took the risk of getting rotor housings in advance due to my RX-8 mileage. In addition, I decided to put all seals and springs new, including the oil seals mostly due to the high mileage. Also, I got the help of my neighbor.
Before doing anything, I gather a lot of information: vids of engine removal from youtube, searched here in the forum and read and analyze the available threads and comments/recommendations, especially the ones from Rotary Resurrection regarding taking out the engine and the one to tear down it. These werevery helpful. Also gathered and analyzed info on how to do the rebuild: got instructional dvd, got a couple of very good vids from youtubeand so on, and the RX-8 oem servicing manuals.
Taking the engine out was straight forward. The worst part was dealing with the a/c compressor, the oil lines and disconnecting every plastic connector. The oil lines were really stuck and regarding the connectors, we were lucky that only broke lightly two of these. After 140k miles, all plastics trends to be toasted. Also, we decided to take the tranny out, although we did it separated from the engine. For every part, we save the bolts/nuts with the part removed or in its original location after removing thepart.
Tearing down the engine was pretty simple. Again, plastic connectors were a challenge and also dealing with the engine harness in order to remember how it runs. We took our time to identify all connectors, although noticed that most of them match uniquely based on form or color. The ones to be careful with are the fuel injectors and the coils. Injectors are four or six depending on your model, and coils are four. There are also two equal white connectors and two equal black connectors that run to the mid of the tranny.
The engine core disassembly was quite simple. Having the proper tools to deal with the flywheel is essential. The Main Hub Bolt also was a big challenge. The only way we were able to took it out was applying heat with a soldering torch and using a long pipe with a breaking bar. After that, we spent a couple of days cleaning all parts to be reused.
Putting everything back together went well although I ended up damaging four of the new side seals during the cutting process. So, have to order a couple of extra side seals. In order to cut these, initially I used a grinding stone and a dremel, but found out the best way was using my bench drill with a grind drill bit. It allowed holding properly the seal while grinding thus reaching the proper angle toward the corner seal. Side seals were adjusted to keep a total gap toward the corner seals between .05 and .10 mm (.002 and .004 in).
After assembly the engine core, we tested the water jacket seal with air pressure at 30 psi for 15 minutes. Thereafter, completed the assembly of external parts. Also put on new clutch and pressure plate.
Finally, mate engine with the tranny out of the car and put these backtogether as one piece. Sorry my friends, we were so concentrate in the job that didn’t took more photos. But here in the forum are various photos posted by TeamRX8 showing the process. The only difference was that we took the hood out for a while, to facilitate the process and avoid any damage.
Last edited by japlaza787; 11-30-2015 at 11:56 AM.
11-30-2015, 11:36 AM
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Results
Voala….it started up in the third trial. The only issue was that it kept accelerated at 2,200 rpm and does not accelerate when pressing the pedal. After doing some research and analysis, got to the conclusion that it was the throttle valve. During cleaning we noted it was stuck in one position but thought it was because it depends on car electronics. After gathering some information, we took it out and were able to release the valve. Everything back again, started-up, and….power and acceleration restored. Also performed the memory reset of the throttle valve position. The only CELwas the O2 Sensor 2 (the one after the catalyst). Ironically it was a part we didn’t touch but I ended up replacing it and currently, no CEL’s and everything is working great. Just waiting a 600 miles break-in period to put some more revs and see how it responds. For now, only up to 4k – 4.5k rpm. Also pending to take it for a compression test.
So, after this great experience, here are some simple things to remember for those doing this for the first time:
THANKS, guys!!!!
Voala….it started up in the third trial. The only issue was that it kept accelerated at 2,200 rpm and does not accelerate when pressing the pedal. After doing some research and analysis, got to the conclusion that it was the throttle valve. During cleaning we noted it was stuck in one position but thought it was because it depends on car electronics. After gathering some information, we took it out and were able to release the valve. Everything back again, started-up, and….power and acceleration restored. Also performed the memory reset of the throttle valve position. The only CELwas the O2 Sensor 2 (the one after the catalyst). Ironically it was a part we didn’t touch but I ended up replacing it and currently, no CEL’s and everything is working great. Just waiting a 600 miles break-in period to put some more revs and see how it responds. For now, only up to 4k – 4.5k rpm. Also pending to take it for a compression test.
So, after this great experience, here are some simple things to remember for those doing this for the first time:
- Have the proper tools, it is essential: flywheelnut wrench, flywheel stopper, engine hoist, engine stand, tests kits, feelergauge, etc.
- Plastic connectors: be gentle and take your time to avoid breaking these, very probable you will end breaking a couple.
- Research and read before getting hands-on. It is the job briefing that is done in most of the workplaces. The forum has information for almost everything related. Also here you can get the servicing manuals.
- Identify your connections properly. At some point I got delayed due to improper identification.
- Engine mounts: when putting everything back, have these loose around their final location before installing the engine, it will save you time and effort. We didn’t do it and then was necessary to take aside break line to make room to handle the engine mount, specifically the right side.
- Be careful with the a/c compressor, you will end-up hitting it one or two times.
- Don’t be in a rush. If in doubt, redo the work. When putting the rotors in place, we redo the work at the minimum metal noise making sure every seal was in-place. Also did the apex seals spring installation the way the OEM servicing manual says.
THANKS, guys!!!!
Last edited by japlaza787; 11-30-2015 at 12:10 PM.
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