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Exhaust needs back pressure? Myth or Truth?

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Old 09-30-2010, 10:47 AM
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I agree Easy, this is getting really deep.

For the masses, let me add this. Referencing the link from SAE, Mazda did an awsome job making the emissions California compliant. (Leave it up to Cali. Damn near everything causes cancer there for some reason.) A lot of research and design make the RX8 deliver the most hp and torque while still passing emissions. For those of us who want to get that extra juice, discussions like these open up questions that will eventually get answered.
Old 02-10-2011, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by robertdot
My dad used to tell me stories about mounting spark plugs on the far end of the muffler, then having a switch to put power to them. Apparently there was enough un-burnt fuel to make some really cool flames. But this was back before the 70s... maybe even before the 60s...

I wonder how well this would work for the '8? Might be a fun project...

the reason that worked so well is because back then they were carbureted. most people back then would run a choke cable into the cab to make them run rich, which in turn would cause them to have large amounts of unburnt fuel. fallowed by the ignition from the spark plug. BLAM. flames
Old 02-10-2011, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by robertdot
My dad used to tell me stories about mounting spark plugs on the far end of the muffler, then having a switch to put power to them. Apparently there was enough un-burnt fuel to make some really cool flames. But this was back before the 70s... maybe even before the 60s...

I wonder how well this would work for the '8? Might be a fun project...
Uh, who needs plugs, many of us already throw steady fire or fire *****...
Old 02-11-2011, 12:44 AM
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rote8 makes a very good point
Old 02-11-2011, 12:52 AM
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sure, if you ignore the zero overlap reality, pulling a vacuum against a closed small chamber and a flow path are two entirely different things

try porting the hole in your head to relieve the excessive cranial backpressure
Old 02-11-2011, 03:08 AM
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Back pressure is never a good thing, but the myth comes from people that make the mistake of modifying their exhausts in a way that it would mess up with the resonance tuning of the OEM exhaust (in case it existed in the first place), which would cause overall performance to drop because the OEM system used resonance tuning to have the best scavenging effect with the REQUIRED muffler and cat's installed so that it made the best power under those conditions.

But there is no denying that a well designed and tunned free flowing exhaust is going to produce more power than a restricted system. There are a lot of factor that contribute to a good exhaust, like gas velocity, length and diameter of the headers, design of the collector, if its a 4-1 or 4-2-1 system etc... too much to explain for the sake of this argument but if you're is interested there's a book I read this past summer that explains all this in depth, its called Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems by Philip H. Smith and John C. Morrison. its a really interesting read if anyone is interested.
Old 06-23-2011, 01:03 PM
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I want to make this clear that I'm re-posting this from a local automotive forum. I'm curious what the rotary community has to add to this.

Back pressure, Exhaust velocity and scavenging.
The myth: “engines need some backpressure.”

One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what its consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "engines need some backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

How the myth came about:

It is easy to see how this misunderstanding arises. Lets’ say that Max puts a 3-inch system on his normally aspirated car. He soon realizes that he has lost power right through the power band. The connection is made in his throbbing brain….

Put on 3" pipe = loss of backpressure = loss of power.

Max erroneously concludes that you need backpressure to retain performance. He has ignored the need for exhaust gas velocity to get that scavenge effect.

The other myth: “engines can get burned valves from not enough backpressure”


How this myth came about:

The other reason why people say "backpressure is good" is because they hear that cars (or motorcycles) that have had performance exhaust work done to them would then go on to burn exhaust valves. Now, it is true that such valve burning has occurred as a result of the exhaust mods, but it isn't due merely to a lack of backpressure.

The internal combustion engine is a complex, dynamic collection of different systems working together to convert the stored power in gasoline into mechanical energy to push a car down the road. Anytime one of these systems are modified, that mod will also indirectly affect the other systems, as well.

Now, valve burning occurs as a result of a very lean-burning engine. In order to achieve a theoretical optimal combustion, an engine needs 14.7 parts of oxygen by mass to 1 part of gasoline (again, by mass). This is referred to as a stochiometric (chemically correct) mixture, and is commonly referred to as a 14.7:1 mix. If an engine burns with less oxygen present (13:1, 12:1, etc...), it is said to run rich. Conversely, if the engine runs with more oxygen present (16:1, 17:1, etc...), it is said to run lean. Today's engines are designed to run at 14.7:1 for normally cruising, with rich mixtures on acceleration or warm-up, and lean mixtures while decelerating.

Getting back to the discussion, the reason that exhaust valves burn is because the engine is burning lean. Normal engines will tolerate lean burning for a little bit, but not for sustained periods of time. The reason why the engine is burning lean to begin with is that the reduction in backpressure is causing more air to be drawn into the combustion chamber than before. Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion often could not adjust for his.

Once these vehicles received performance mods that reduced backpressure, they tended to burn valves because of the resulting over-lean condition. This, incidentally, also provides a basis for the "torque increase" seen if backpressure is maintained. As the fuel/air mixture becomes leaner, the resultant combustion will produce progressively less and less of the force needed to produce torque.

Some basic exhaust theory

Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficiently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle; a 6 cylinder has 6 pulses and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

Backpressure and velocity.

Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much, much, faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity.

Backpressure in its most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your power band is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your power band is located at 8-9000RPM.

Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.

So why is exhaust velocity so important?

The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).

Conclusion.

SO it turns out that engines don't need backpressure, they need as high a flow velocity as possible with as little backpressure as possible.


Cited from various diffrent website.
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