Evans Npg Coolant
10-16-2009, 09:01 PM
#27
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LONGPATH:
it seems like all of us get different info and recommendations on the use of NPG+/NPGr...
i've researched/read as thoroghly on the product beforehand as vvell... and i remember somevvhere a commercial diesel truck has ran on the npg vvell over 100k+... the example is somevvhere on their site.
but anyvvho.... i think it vvas also tom i spoke to over the phone, and i believe caroline.
to the point... tom only recommends replacement of npg+/R if vehicle has accumulated enough atmosphere moisture over a period of time. and i asked if this is the case for a california car... in vvhich he advised that it isn't really necessary and just use it for its intended purpose as vvater/moisture is the only reason for replacement to prevent corrosion.
all he advised is that ABSOLUTELY no h2o gets in there. and its also OK to use oem pressure cap/thermostat.
trust me... the process is a bitch. i sent in 2 samples that failed the test and he eventually told me to just boil the coolant until all bubbles are gone.
but my cooling system novv is virtually vvater and contamination-free! (except for the vent tube)
so is there really another reason to need a replacement every 5yrs? i don't really see one, but if there is, then i'd like to be cautioned...
it seems like all of us get different info and recommendations on the use of NPG+/NPGr...
i've researched/read as thoroghly on the product beforehand as vvell... and i remember somevvhere a commercial diesel truck has ran on the npg vvell over 100k+... the example is somevvhere on their site.
but anyvvho.... i think it vvas also tom i spoke to over the phone, and i believe caroline.
to the point... tom only recommends replacement of npg+/R if vehicle has accumulated enough atmosphere moisture over a period of time. and i asked if this is the case for a california car... in vvhich he advised that it isn't really necessary and just use it for its intended purpose as vvater/moisture is the only reason for replacement to prevent corrosion.
all he advised is that ABSOLUTELY no h2o gets in there. and its also OK to use oem pressure cap/thermostat.
trust me... the process is a bitch. i sent in 2 samples that failed the test and he eventually told me to just boil the coolant until all bubbles are gone.
but my cooling system novv is virtually vvater and contamination-free! (except for the vent tube)
so is there really another reason to need a replacement every 5yrs? i don't really see one, but if there is, then i'd like to be cautioned...
10-16-2009, 09:16 PM
#28
is adjusting valve lash
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longpath,
if you'd like, u can try to get a dead cap out of an old rx-7 (FC) as they use a dead cap on the upper hose iirc. but as stated earlier... oem is ok. thermostat too...
and i believe u are in a cold state... so the recommended 5yrs replacement may apply if enough moisture gets accumulated over time to fail the "refractometer"??? test. (forgot the equipment name)
not sure on team rx-8's location, but some truth may be for daily cars not needing this. its just sooo easy for dealers to mess it up during service, and the moisture problem for cars that live in cold climates... i'm lucky this is a california car that is gonna see this products benefits, track miles or not. i'm happy vvith NPGR if it does turn out not needing much maintainence over the long haul and performs like it should...
if you'd like, u can try to get a dead cap out of an old rx-7 (FC) as they use a dead cap on the upper hose iirc. but as stated earlier... oem is ok. thermostat too...
and i believe u are in a cold state... so the recommended 5yrs replacement may apply if enough moisture gets accumulated over time to fail the "refractometer"??? test. (forgot the equipment name)
not sure on team rx-8's location, but some truth may be for daily cars not needing this. its just sooo easy for dealers to mess it up during service, and the moisture problem for cars that live in cold climates... i'm lucky this is a california car that is gonna see this products benefits, track miles or not. i'm happy vvith NPGR if it does turn out not needing much maintainence over the long haul and performs like it should...
10-17-2009, 06:52 AM
#29
Originally the OE t-stat, but I now have the lower Mazmart one
it doesn't get much drier than where I'm at, but again it's not something I'd recommend to just anyone due to all the factors involved. My '05 with under 8 k miles has only been to the stealership once, and that was many years ago.
it doesn't get much drier than where I'm at, but again it's not something I'd recommend to just anyone due to all the factors involved. My '05 with under 8 k miles has only been to the stealership once, and that was many years ago.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 10-17-2009 at 07:00 AM.
10-17-2009, 12:02 PM
#31
only if you have an open system, which then also allows moisture to get back in
the overflow/surge tank has to be vented to the atmosphere, so there is always the risk of some exposure to moisure over time, the amount would have to be pretty small though, just change it every year or two should be fine, no way would I try to go five years, that's dumb regardless of whether it has moisture contact or not
the overflow/surge tank has to be vented to the atmosphere, so there is always the risk of some exposure to moisure over time, the amount would have to be pretty small though, just change it every year or two should be fine, no way would I try to go five years, that's dumb regardless of whether it has moisture contact or not
10-18-2009, 08:40 AM
#32
I have yet to modify the pressure cap; but I was thinking that in order (since I do indeed live in a cold wet part of NA) to take advantage of the assets available to me (engine heat, unmodified pressure cap, etc.) I'd turn the cap to the vent position when the engine was cold right before starting up, then, using an oven mitt or something similar, turn it to the fully closed position after I arrive. Mind you, this is just my thinking and I have yet to try it as I've been home taking care of my daughter since the day after I completed the conversion.
10-19-2009, 06:37 PM
#33
I sent the following query to Evans' tech mailbox today:
I then got the following reply:
I completed the conversion last Wednesday, disconnecting and blowing out
the contents of the heater core, using the block drain, and draining the
radiator in my 2004 Mazda RX-8. I've also run the engine with the OEM
pressure cap in the vent position in stop and go traffic to drive the
coolant temperatures above 215F (carefully closing it with a thermal
mitt when I arrived at my destination); but I don't have a refractometer
and my NPG+ didn't come with test strips. I've started looking into
getting a Brix scale refractometer so I can check the mixture; but they
seem to range from $24 to over $300 and I am not certain what to look
for.
I live in Stamford, CT, and it's obviously the rainy season, so I am
concerned about atmospheric moisture contaminating my coolant; but am
not sure if this is really an issue or not (for all I know, any humidity
might just boil off). I have also considered turning the OEM cap to the
vent position when the engine is cool, prior to starting it up, and then
turning it to the fully closed position using a thermal mitt when I
arrive in order to prevent humidity in the air from contaminating my
coolant. I might be overreacting, so I wanted to know what you do with
daily drivers in the more humid areas of North America.
I have contemplated placing an electrically operated valve in the
overflow tank vent line so that the valve would be open when the engine
is running and would close when I shut the engine down; but I am not
certain if there really is any need for something like this.
Most of the people that I have communicated with who are using Evans
coolant are located in drier climes than I am located in, and they seem
to have conflicting opinions about whether the OEM pressure cap, a low
pressure cap, or a zero pressure cap is ideal.
I am presently looking into whether there are any higher than standard
thermostats available for my car as well as I would like to take full
advantage of the NPG+ cooling my car's engine; but it seems I have to do
some more research before I will be able to locate such a thermostat
(all of the 3rd party thermostats I've found for my car are set for a
lower temperature, the opposite of what I am trying to find).
Any clarification you can give me on any of these points is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks and Regards,
Lane Lombardia
the contents of the heater core, using the block drain, and draining the
radiator in my 2004 Mazda RX-8. I've also run the engine with the OEM
pressure cap in the vent position in stop and go traffic to drive the
coolant temperatures above 215F (carefully closing it with a thermal
mitt when I arrived at my destination); but I don't have a refractometer
and my NPG+ didn't come with test strips. I've started looking into
getting a Brix scale refractometer so I can check the mixture; but they
seem to range from $24 to over $300 and I am not certain what to look
for.
I live in Stamford, CT, and it's obviously the rainy season, so I am
concerned about atmospheric moisture contaminating my coolant; but am
not sure if this is really an issue or not (for all I know, any humidity
might just boil off). I have also considered turning the OEM cap to the
vent position when the engine is cool, prior to starting it up, and then
turning it to the fully closed position using a thermal mitt when I
arrive in order to prevent humidity in the air from contaminating my
coolant. I might be overreacting, so I wanted to know what you do with
daily drivers in the more humid areas of North America.
I have contemplated placing an electrically operated valve in the
overflow tank vent line so that the valve would be open when the engine
is running and would close when I shut the engine down; but I am not
certain if there really is any need for something like this.
Most of the people that I have communicated with who are using Evans
coolant are located in drier climes than I am located in, and they seem
to have conflicting opinions about whether the OEM pressure cap, a low
pressure cap, or a zero pressure cap is ideal.
I am presently looking into whether there are any higher than standard
thermostats available for my car as well as I would like to take full
advantage of the NPG+ cooling my car's engine; but it seems I have to do
some more research before I will be able to locate such a thermostat
(all of the 3rd party thermostats I've found for my car are set for a
lower temperature, the opposite of what I am trying to find).
Any clarification you can give me on any of these points is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks and Regards,
Lane Lombardia
Lane.............first thing is you are overthinking this conversion.
Don't change the cap, leave the stock pressure cap on the system and
always tighten it up. Most all the "tuner" cars have a pressure side
cooling system and if you go changing the cap to a lower pressure, you
will open the cap and push all the coolant out of the radiator into the
overflow. Leave the t-stat alone as well, no need to go to a hotter one.
On all stock conversions we tell the customer, JUST DO THE
CHANGEOVER>>>>>>>LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE.
We sell refractometers for our coolant for $69.95, but you can send
me a sample and I will test it free of charge and get back to you with
the results. I need about an ounce in a screw lid bottle, tape the lid
on and put it in a baggy. Then send it to me with your name and phone
number where I can reach you during the day, or an email address.
Don't change the cap, leave the stock pressure cap on the system and
always tighten it up. Most all the "tuner" cars have a pressure side
cooling system and if you go changing the cap to a lower pressure, you
will open the cap and push all the coolant out of the radiator into the
overflow. Leave the t-stat alone as well, no need to go to a hotter one.
On all stock conversions we tell the customer, JUST DO THE
CHANGEOVER>>>>>>>LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE.
We sell refractometers for our coolant for $69.95, but you can send
me a sample and I will test it free of charge and get back to you with
the results. I need about an ounce in a screw lid bottle, tape the lid
on and put it in a baggy. Then send it to me with your name and phone
number where I can reach you during the day, or an email address.
04-25-2010, 08:32 AM
#34
thread revival. I finally got around to doing a complete cooling system upgrade, complete with NPGR. New bhr radiator, mazmart water pump, all silicone hoses (except 2 heater hoses because I didn't buy enough bulk hose) and using a mazsport canister trio I relocated my coolant bottle.
After removing the radiator I took an air chuck and blew air through the lines which got what I thought was the last of the coolant. To be sure I had the system clear I removed the drain plug from the block and to my surprise my arm was drenched in coolant. I think I got about 2 more quarts from the system. I proceeded to use compressed air and get a little more.
After installing all the new hoses and radiator I filled the system up with approximatly 2.5 gallons (had to fill directly into radiator via the small hose, not through the overflow bottle). Once full I connected the last hose and filled my coolant bottle to the top, started it up and brought the ect up to operating temps. Once the t-stat opened the coolant bottle level dropped down and hasn't moved since. I have gotten the ect up to 210 & turned the heater on to be sure coolant is running through the heater core. Still neither a drop or rise in the coolant bottle level. I also noticed that even when the system is hot, there is no pressure when the cap is removed. Makes me wonder at what temp does NPGR even expand?
Guaging the effectiveness of converting will be difficult because I also installed the bhr radiator and mazmart pump. However, it's nice to know that if I ever do see temps in the 240 range, I won't have any boiling/vaporizing coolant. To me that makes the switch to NPGR worth it.
I have a track day coming in about a week, temps should only be in the low 80's but if I note anything pertinate I will post my findings
After removing the radiator I took an air chuck and blew air through the lines which got what I thought was the last of the coolant. To be sure I had the system clear I removed the drain plug from the block and to my surprise my arm was drenched in coolant. I think I got about 2 more quarts from the system. I proceeded to use compressed air and get a little more.
After installing all the new hoses and radiator I filled the system up with approximatly 2.5 gallons (had to fill directly into radiator via the small hose, not through the overflow bottle). Once full I connected the last hose and filled my coolant bottle to the top, started it up and brought the ect up to operating temps. Once the t-stat opened the coolant bottle level dropped down and hasn't moved since. I have gotten the ect up to 210 & turned the heater on to be sure coolant is running through the heater core. Still neither a drop or rise in the coolant bottle level. I also noticed that even when the system is hot, there is no pressure when the cap is removed. Makes me wonder at what temp does NPGR even expand?
Guaging the effectiveness of converting will be difficult because I also installed the bhr radiator and mazmart pump. However, it's nice to know that if I ever do see temps in the 240 range, I won't have any boiling/vaporizing coolant. To me that makes the switch to NPGR worth it.
I have a track day coming in about a week, temps should only be in the low 80's but if I note anything pertinate I will post my findings
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lunarx (05-17-2020)
05-24-2010, 01:00 PM
#35
I was wrong about evans npg-r not expanding. I must have had an air pocket that had to be worked out. It does expand and I had my overflow bottle too full which seemed to cause extra pressure and higher then expected temps. Once I got my level down the vehicle was running normal temps. Ont he plus side, even when I was hitting 230-240, I never once got any boil over.
07-20-2011, 12:31 AM
#37
Yah after 15 min on the track in 90 deg+ weather it was going above 230. I believe I needed to add foam around the radiator BTW, that was na, no fmic blocking the air flow. With a secondary radiator and a fmic my temps were about the same. Well see what happens when I get it back together again.
07-20-2011, 02:15 AM
#40
I left out the fact that I flushed a gallon of Sierra brand coolant through the block and once filled up I let the car run for a while with the cap off so any water would evaporate out of the system. I even sent in a sample to be tested. That was a while ago and I dont remember the exact results except that it was fine.
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