Cumulative Synthetic Oil Discussion
02-06-2010, 09:52 AM
#1126
One thing resurfaces in my thinking every now and then, just often enough to make me nervous. Brian Goodwin, who should know something about the subject, remains adamant against synthetic oil for our engine only. You probably all know his reasons. Racing Beat and others are equally strong with pro-synthetic oil views (could it have something to do with racing applications being torn down to "clean" status frequently and also not using catalytic converters?). I guess we are never going to have definitive answers.
and if you think Racing Beat kind of company based their findings on racing engines only, you are totally wrong.
02-06-2010, 04:37 PM
#1127
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some people looks healthy, but then they found out that they have 4th stage of cancer , hey, no symptoms at all ~
and a lot of these "so called" expert has close to none rotary engine experience.
and if you think Racing Beat kind of company based their findings on racing engines only, you are totally wrong.
and a lot of these "so called" expert has close to none rotary engine experience.
and if you think Racing Beat kind of company based their findings on racing engines only, you are totally wrong.
Just put a Good Quality Oil in your CAR... whatever you use will not "SAVE" your engine if it goes to 'Yamamoto Heaven'..
You know I could also throw up Facts and tell you 95% of your RX-8 engine uses the same design parts used 40 years ago when Dino oil was the ONLY oil used.
Blah..Blah..BLAH.....
Blah Blah
02-06-2010, 06:53 PM
#1128
JEEEZZZZ...Not this BS again...the old Dino or Synth debate...that is...
Just put a Good Quality Oil in your CAR... whatever you use will not "SAVE" your engine if it goes to 'Yamamoto Heaven'..
You know I could also throw up Facts and tell you 95% of your RX-8 engine uses the same design parts used 40 years ago when Dino oil was the ONLY oil used.
Blah..Blah..BLAH.....Blah Blah
Just put a Good Quality Oil in your CAR... whatever you use will not "SAVE" your engine if it goes to 'Yamamoto Heaven'..
You know I could also throw up Facts and tell you 95% of your RX-8 engine uses the same design parts used 40 years ago when Dino oil was the ONLY oil used.
Blah..Blah..BLAH.....
Blah Blah
but I just hate ppl bashing Synthetic oil when all they got is "because blah blah blah he/she said is not good" lmao.
I use it and I have no problem, Bite me !
Last edited by nycgps; 02-06-2010 at 11:14 PM.
02-06-2010, 10:57 PM
#1129
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02-09-2010, 09:09 PM
#1130
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I think it's fair for owners to use whatever oil they like in the RX, .....personally I will stick with what Mazda advises, which is "don't use synthetics or semi synthetics".
The way I see it is dino oil is sooo less expensive, seems to burn better in the rotary (which is how it's supposed to) and it's cheaper to change the oil more frequently.
The way I see it is dino oil is sooo less expensive, seems to burn better in the rotary (which is how it's supposed to) and it's cheaper to change the oil more frequently.
02-10-2010, 08:23 AM
#1131
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There's about 6-7 quarts of oil in the RX8. Only about 4 quarts come out when you do an oil change. This is why frequent oil changes are necessary. It doesn't matter what you use as long as it is good quality oil. If you use synthetic, make sure it is a good quality full synthetic and not one of those synthetics that think they are synthetics.
So again, it isn't really about what oil you use, just the frequency. I don't see the point of using synthetic since you really need to change the oil every 3,000 miles or so. Although if there is ever a good sale on some I wont turn it down.
End of Dino/Synthetic debate
So again, it isn't really about what oil you use, just the frequency. I don't see the point of using synthetic since you really need to change the oil every 3,000 miles or so. Although if there is ever a good sale on some I wont turn it down.
End of Dino/Synthetic debate
02-10-2010, 09:26 AM
#1132
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I think there have been some major recalls to change engines and the reasons given are that RX's most affected are those in hot climates using synthetic oil. I think Mazda have said many times, "don't use synthetic oil". It was the second or third item on the salesman's lips when he sold me the RX8. Mazda mechanics have been on other forums (allegedly mechanics) saying don't use synthetics or semi synth because the long term effects are detrimental to the normal (not racing) situation, with engine rebuilds required quite early.??
^It won't end because of people trying to subject their own "expertise" when in fact they have none. If synthetics were so bad for the rotary, then racing engines wouldn't use them. And no, they don't use synthetics because they rebuild so much it doesn't matter. Rotary's get a few races per rebuild while piston engines get 1-2 races per rebuild and the piston engines are using synthetic as well.
Mazda will never say synthetics are ok because all synthetics are not ok. All good quality FULL synthetics like eneos and rp are fine. It's just easier for Mazda to say dont use synthetics instead of telling people which ones they can and cannot use.
Mazda will never say synthetics are ok because all synthetics are not ok. All good quality FULL synthetics like eneos and rp are fine. It's just easier for Mazda to say dont use synthetics instead of telling people which ones they can and cannot use.
02-10-2010, 09:28 AM
#1133
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for sure they are not going to say this because there have been a number of engine failures where the owners have used synthetics.
02-10-2010, 10:01 AM
#1134
I think there have been some major recalls to change engines and the reasons given are that RX's most affected are those in hot climates using synthetic oil. I think Mazda have said many times, "don't use synthetic oil". It was the second or third item on the salesman's lips when he sold me the RX8. Mazda mechanics have been on other forums (allegedly mechanics) saying don't use synthetics or semi synth because the long term effects are detrimental to the normal (not racing) situation, with engine rebuilds required quite early.??
Most car salesman doesn't know **** about the car they're selling. Listening to them means you're asking your girlfriend how to fix your car.
Same thing goes for Mazda mechanics, they will listen to whatever the corporate tells them. Generally speaking there is nothing wrong with that, but remember they're working for Mazda so at some point of view they can't(or won't) have their own opinion over the matter. Anyway, fine lets just say your Mazda mechanics told you this, but my Mazda mechanics told me to use 20w50 + Premix. and guess what he is a Rotor head himself and he has 500+rwhp FD. Should I listen to yours or mine ?
Renensis failed because of a few things. OMP is one of them, suck *** 5w20 mineral oil is another, the oil "dripping" location, and a few other things. NOT because of Synthetic oil use.
02-10-2010, 06:54 PM
#1135
Amsoil recommends their Group III (so called "fake" synthetic), not their Group IV synthetic. Anyone could take that with a grain of salt. Valvoline synthetic is also Group III, and its been recommended by people "in the know". Group III's are just hydro-cracked mineral bases.
Mazda's Rotary synthetic oil in Japan is Group IV, so is RP, Mobil 1 (depending on specification now), etc.
Not arguing, just saying there is no right or wrong answer based on the base oils, but more on a additive packages and what they leave behind when burned, which is what Mazda is getting at. There are probably some dirty ones out there (I don't know what those are).
02-10-2010, 08:23 PM
#1136
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ouch!...chill out man, like I said u can use whatever u like, even vegetable oil if u think it's best. I'm just sharing an opinion here, not preaching! I prefer to leave my *** out of it!! The recall came from a TSB in North America, you can check for yourself if you like. For sure a lot of engine failures occurred for other reasons, that were running on mineral oils, but by reverse logic, a lot of these engines were not "saved" by using synthetics!
My acquaintance was a mechanic at Mazda for 12 years, at senior level, and he left with no hang ups about "working for Mazda" so I guess he did have some insider knowledge about these failures.
I just don't want to spend 3 times as much on engine oil that isn't going to give me a tangible benefit.
My acquaintance was a mechanic at Mazda for 12 years, at senior level, and he left with no hang ups about "working for Mazda" so I guess he did have some insider knowledge about these failures.
I just don't want to spend 3 times as much on engine oil that isn't going to give me a tangible benefit.
Where is the "major recalls to change engine and the reasons given are that RX's most affected are those in hot climates using Synthetic oil." came from. your *** ?
Most car salesman doesn't know **** about the car they're selling. Listening to them means you're asking your girlfriend how to fix your car.
Same thing goes for Mazda mechanics, they will listen to whatever the corporate tells them. Generally speaking there is nothing wrong with that, but remember they're working for Mazda so at some point of view they can't(or won't) have their own opinion over the matter. Anyway, fine lets just say your Mazda mechanics told you this, but my Mazda mechanics told me to use 20w50 + Premix. and guess what he is a Rotor head himself and he has 500+rwhp FD. Should I listen to yours or mine ?
Renensis failed because of a few things. OMP is one of them, suck *** 5w20 mineral oil is another, the oil "dripping" location, and a few other things. NOT because of Synthetic oil use.
Most car salesman doesn't know **** about the car they're selling. Listening to them means you're asking your girlfriend how to fix your car.
Same thing goes for Mazda mechanics, they will listen to whatever the corporate tells them. Generally speaking there is nothing wrong with that, but remember they're working for Mazda so at some point of view they can't(or won't) have their own opinion over the matter. Anyway, fine lets just say your Mazda mechanics told you this, but my Mazda mechanics told me to use 20w50 + Premix. and guess what he is a Rotor head himself and he has 500+rwhp FD. Should I listen to yours or mine ?
Renensis failed because of a few things. OMP is one of them, suck *** 5w20 mineral oil is another, the oil "dripping" location, and a few other things. NOT because of Synthetic oil use.
02-11-2010, 08:17 AM
#1137
ouch!...chill out man, like I said u can use whatever u like, even vegetable oil if u think it's best. I'm just sharing an opinion here, not preaching! I prefer to leave my *** out of it!! The recall came from a TSB in North America, you can check for yourself if you like. For sure a lot of engine failures occurred for other reasons, that were running on mineral oils, but by reverse logic, a lot of these engines were not "saved" by using synthetics!
My acquaintance was a mechanic at Mazda for 12 years, at senior level, and he left with no hang ups about "working for Mazda" so I guess he did have some insider knowledge about these failures.
I just don't want to spend 3 times as much on engine oil that isn't going to give me a tangible benefit.
My acquaintance was a mechanic at Mazda for 12 years, at senior level, and he left with no hang ups about "working for Mazda" so I guess he did have some insider knowledge about these failures.
I just don't want to spend 3 times as much on engine oil that isn't going to give me a tangible benefit.
Im not sure about Malaysia, but in North American, no dealership/tech is allowed to open the engines up. so only a few "rotor heads" tech will be able to know what is really going on, and guess what, we know one of them. and he told me something completely opposite.
yea sure, you can use whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me. but from a "technical" stand point. a Real Synthetic oil can resist thermal breakdown MUCH better than ANY Mineral oil.
There you go.
02-11-2010, 09:12 PM
#1139
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for sure you are right, I am from Boston originally, been living here a while...my first RX was a 2002 model, got it just after the launch in US, used mineral oil from day 1 until 186000 miles. Absolutely nothing wrong with the engine, no re-builds and when I sold it on (at a very low price I should add) it was still going fine, good compression etc..we followed the servicing, starting, warming up etc.."religiously", and exactly as per the manufacturers recommendations, with cheap "dino oil" changes every 4-5000 miles depending on driving style. Never did any "red lining" for the sake of clearing out the carbonation either. Didn't add any super greased lightning additives to the engine or gearbox oil, just drove it around and enjoyed it.
My new RX is the 6AT 2009 facelifted with about 212bhp because that is the only one sold here officially and it cost me US$73000 because of the crazy car tax system here! (How much is it in the States now...make me weep!!) This one too I am driving on dino oil with no worries, and following all Mazda service schedules etc...
My view is this car is not that good (compared with a conventional engine) for "tinkering"...because the results are not as predictable as with conventional engines. For sure synthetics are more stable at higher temperatures, but that only is meaningful in race car situations, or for extended drain intervals and pollution control. All oils break down at high temperatures eventually, including the finest synthetics. What does that mean? Just change your dino oil more frequently, so when I did the cost/benefit equation, running on mineral and changing more frequently worked out cheaper in the long run, and I didn't take any "risks" (however small, because of other Mazda failures) and saved me a lot of headache. Don't want to flog this synthetic/dino dead horse any more, just sharing my experiences with this marvelous car.
My new RX is the 6AT 2009 facelifted with about 212bhp because that is the only one sold here officially and it cost me US$73000 because of the crazy car tax system here! (How much is it in the States now...make me weep!!) This one too I am driving on dino oil with no worries, and following all Mazda service schedules etc...
My view is this car is not that good (compared with a conventional engine) for "tinkering"...because the results are not as predictable as with conventional engines. For sure synthetics are more stable at higher temperatures, but that only is meaningful in race car situations, or for extended drain intervals and pollution control. All oils break down at high temperatures eventually, including the finest synthetics. What does that mean? Just change your dino oil more frequently, so when I did the cost/benefit equation, running on mineral and changing more frequently worked out cheaper in the long run, and I didn't take any "risks" (however small, because of other Mazda failures) and saved me a lot of headache. Don't want to flog this synthetic/dino dead horse any more, just sharing my experiences with this marvelous car.
Which part of the TSB did it say not to use Synthetic oil ?
Im not sure about Malaysia, but in North American, no dealership/tech is allowed to open the engines up. so only a few "rotor heads" tech will be able to know what is really going on, and guess what, we know one of them. and he told me something completely opposite.
yea sure, you can use whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me. but from a "technical" stand point. a Real Synthetic oil can resist thermal breakdown MUCH better than ANY Mineral oil.
There you go.
Im not sure about Malaysia, but in North American, no dealership/tech is allowed to open the engines up. so only a few "rotor heads" tech will be able to know what is really going on, and guess what, we know one of them. and he told me something completely opposite.
yea sure, you can use whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me. but from a "technical" stand point. a Real Synthetic oil can resist thermal breakdown MUCH better than ANY Mineral oil.
There you go.
Last edited by Onyx57; 02-11-2010 at 09:23 PM.
02-12-2010, 08:20 AM
#1140
Yeah this and the premix thread just talk themselves in circles of nonsense...lol.
Has anyone suggested getting some of the Mazda Rotary Synthetic and having of VOA done on it? We already know its a Group IV, and the VOA will give everyone a look at the additive package.
Then, you can find compare it to other oils more readily available at retail stores, then pick the closest ones.
Has anyone suggested getting some of the Mazda Rotary Synthetic and having of VOA done on it? We already know its a Group IV, and the VOA will give everyone a look at the additive package.
Then, you can find compare it to other oils more readily available at retail stores, then pick the closest ones.
02-12-2010, 09:46 AM
#1141
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I have run both synthetic and dino in two different failed motors so really it's all guess work because I never got to see the inside of either of the two motors. But neither of the first two were premixed for any substantial amount of time. This motor (third in 105,000 miles) has run the SOHN adapter, premix, and synthetic 0W-30 and then 0W-40 from the beginning so we will see, it has 9k on it and I will be installing the Mazmart OP kit this weekend. Oh, and yes I revved both of the previous motors and had on time 3,000 mile oil changes (proved to Mazda through receipts).
If your not running the SOHN then I don't think synthetic is necessary but it is a better oil based on UOA I have seen on the Renesis. BUt my secodn motor lasted the longest (73k) and I ran 10W-30 Castrol GTX and if I had premixed maybe that engine would be going strong today.
But that is what this forum is for, to discuss things
If your not running the SOHN then I don't think synthetic is necessary but it is a better oil based on UOA I have seen on the Renesis. BUt my secodn motor lasted the longest (73k) and I ran 10W-30 Castrol GTX and if I had premixed maybe that engine would be going strong today.
But that is what this forum is for, to discuss things
02-12-2010, 10:08 AM
#1142
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I have found from my UOA's that all oils are not created equally. The German Castrol 0W-30 (highly regarded) I tested was the "worst" of all the oil I have tested. But honestly you can't really compare UOA's from previous motors. the 0W-40 Mobil1 I am running tested good in terms of viscosity but I am having a high percentage of fuel in my oil so I am watching that. I may try Rotella T6 this weekend since its only $19.95 a jug at Walmart and I have seen some really good UOA's of it.
02-12-2010, 11:24 AM
#1143
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I really wish I had run the SOHN and premixed in my second motor from the start. But I have used Castrol GTX forever in many cars and it has done well. It also consistently does well in UOA's.
02-12-2010, 02:35 PM
#1144
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http://www.rotaryinsider.com/diy-tac...pter-gap28.htm
I am sure you can spot my 2 stroke reservoir
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 02-12-2010 at 03:58 PM.
02-12-2010, 03:23 PM
#1145
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The install is a bit tricky but I think it's a great part. Just keep in mind that any dealership that knows you have one will probably freak out.
I'd suggest a good quality multi-purpose 2 cycle oil and you'll be all set!
02-12-2010, 03:59 PM
#1146
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Oops!! Fixed.
http://www.rotaryinsider.com/diy-tac...pter-gap28.htm
It's not hard at all man, the install difficulty is overrated.
http://www.rotaryinsider.com/diy-tac...pter-gap28.htm
It's not hard at all man, the install difficulty is overrated.
02-12-2010, 11:07 PM
#1150
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it says 3 times in my owners handbook under owner maintenance "Do not use synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil." ......Can you get more specific than that?