saxRX-8

just ordered my new RX-8 red with black and red interior.

I am hearing that in the states engines have been replaced. Is that true? Should I be worried? How important is the breaking in period?

cwerdna

I've counted 10 people here on this forum who've needed engine replacements for one reason or another (not necessarily "blown").

ectomort
rx gr8t
miata2rx8
Kas
canzoomer
ShawnC
Judge Ito
JaChTsai
JeFfUcF
Chef RX-8

That's a bit troubling in my book given the small # of RX-8s sold in the US. I recall 1 or 2 of the above guys aren't in the US though. I've only seen 1 guy w/a light or unmodded Z on my350z.com who needed a new engine. There have been 14K RX-8s sold in the US so far vs. 52K 350Zs.

Some will downplay the engine troubles... you're welcome to take it for what it is. (ducking for cover, disclaimer: I own a Z)

saxRX-8

well i don't really care aboyt the z it is overpriced especially here in greece

i would appreciate a comment from someone who owns an 8 and could give me some feedback on the reasons engine replacement might occur

cardinal35

yeah but what about the MASSIVE Nissan recalls>? They aren't downplaying those in Newsweek!

Genom

Well, there have been some engines that failed, and that list is wrong on a couple of points (Ito had his tranny replaced for example, not engine).

How bad is it? Doesnt seem that bad to me, but then again, my engine hasnt blown so I might be a bit biased. All the failures happened well in the warranty period though, so it would seem to me that if it is gonna blow, it's going to be under 10K miles. I personally am not worrying about it in the least.

saxRX-8

I feel that being able to change the engine in the warranty is valuable but still an engine replacement is a big thing and I don't think anybody would like to wait for his car to be fixed every other week. MR-2 is a good example of such a problem.
You may not have to pay for the new engine but that doesn't mean you don't lose time and probably some of the car's reliability.

paradigm

of the 14000 or so RX8's that have been sold in the states, about 40-50 have blown an engine last time I checked. That's not even 1%.

Cwerdna, you should call nissan to find out how many Z's had their engines replaced, instead of just taking the one or 2 examples you hear about on the forums. Just because more people have talked about losing an engine here, doesn't necessarily make the car less reliable.

saxRX-8

I believe that usage is also an issue. Busting the living hell out of the engine everyday could be one of the main reasons for the engine blow outs. Eventhough mine isn't delivered yet I know difiicult it is to keep your foot of the pedal driving such a car.

Speed Racer

Most of the engines that I have heard about all seemed to fail because of one of the o-rings was damaged during assembly. Which then caused a coolant leak. Canzoomer's failure was different and if I remember correctly he said that it was due to a bad oil metering pump. So far we haven't heard of any design related failures such as weak apex seals, side seals falling into the ports, or any such nonsense.

It is a little early to judge the car's reliability and the problems that we have seen so far may just be first year bugs. I guess only time will tell.

cwerdna

It sure looks like Ito got his engine replaced if you read this thread https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=14477 .

cwerdna

Did you get your 40-50 # direct fom Mazda? I personally don't think Mazda nor Nissan would be really willing to reveal any numbers at all. That'd likely be very confidential information for a car company.

All we can unfortunately go by is anecdotal numbers. Clearly not all RX-8 owners are here on this board nor are all 350Z owners on my350z.com. But, it should be clear the Z has been out a lot longer and there are far more of them and yet I see many more engine replacement threads here than I do on for Zs.

Psylence

Why are people so damn freaked out about this?

6 years ago I had a Porsche Boxster that ate the engine after 7500 miles. I wasn't the only one! Turns out there was a batch of bad engine castings..

It can happen to *any* model. What I don't get is why people try and turn this into an 8 vs. Z issue....

cwerdna

Sorry, my bad. I was just trying to put the issue in perspective w/another relatively new sports car in a similar price range. They both happen to be Japanese and tend to be compared here and in mags.

That said, yes, it can happen to any model. It just happens to seem rather frequent on the 8 given the small #s and short period of time it's been out.

RCCAZ 1

I think most people are sensitive based on the reliability problems with the Gen 3 RX-7. Bottom line is that an NA rotary engine is going to be EXTREMELY reliable as compared to it's turbocharged predecessor. Another issue to consider is that Mazda produced almost as many RX-8s in its first 6 months of production as in ALL of the 10 year production run of Gen 3 RX-7s. That kind of volume, especially considering the hand-assembly that goes into the Renesis engine, will OCCASIONALLY introduce some deviation, hence engine failures. I agree with a previous poster that most of these "assembly" related anomalies should take place early on in the life of the engine so warranty coverage should address the issues, infrequent as they may be.

klegg

Both judge ito and canzoomer were racing/modding the car...I am sure at least some of the others were too!!!

I would not worry about it.

Q121825

Your list, even if it is right, shows TEN engine replacements out of 14,000 sold. That's 0.07% which is most certainly not "frequent" as you claim.

Once again, another poor attempt to bash the 8.

rotarygod

Many of the known engine failures weren't actually the fault of the engine itself but rather the oil metering system which is external. It is an entirely new system that has never been used before. This is no different than running out of oil. Improper lubrication will always result in a failure. The engine itself has had few problems and so far I don't know of any seal issues that weren't caused by experimentation or retuning in some fashion. There are so many little things that can go wrong on a car that can lead to a catastrophic failure elsewhere. You can't just blame these on the engine. First year models all have their quirks, even the Z.

cwerdna

But, not all RX8 owners are on this forum, let alone active on this forum for that matter. Out of the 7.4K members on this board, how many actually have RX-8s?

I'm asserting that the frequency seems high given the small # of RX-8s on the road, the short period of time they've been out, and the total miles they've all accumulated.

There are 3.7x the # of 350Zs in the US and I've seen one unmodded or lightly modded Z that has needed a new engine. It's also been out about a year longer.

cwerdna

Canzoomer was stock when his engine failed.

I've taken my stock 02 Maxima to the drag strip 5 times and my engine's still fine.

Genom

late last year (when cz's car failed) it was found out at the time there was about 60 engines being replaced. I'm sure there's a few more now, but for total sales, thats pretty low. I know for a fact most computer hardware has much higher failure rates than that, and this is single compnents we are talking about, forget a complete complicated system such as a car. And as explained before, this is a brand new model. The 350 had it's issues the first year (well, there's still issues going on now that are pretty major). Happens to pretty much any car I've ever looked into buying.

88gt

Where do you guys get your figures from?

zoom44

and how manyof those engines have been produced and they are in how many cars, how many models and have been for how many years? this is a brand new engine that is in one model and it is in it's first year of production. and what we are seeing is, as a was the case in judge itos and canzoomer's, that it seems to be the oil metering pump that is failing, cuasing the engine to seize of a seal to break. what would happen to all of those nissan engines if the rings weren't being lubed? so it's not the engine but a bad run of oil metering pumps from a supplier.

rotarygod

And not all Z owners are on forums either. How many of the undocumented cases have had engine failures in the Z community?

Any argument that you can come up with we can turn right back against any other new car. You are also ignoring the fact that many of the blown engines were the result of a mechanical failure elsewhere and not actually a direct engine problem.

Every problem with a rotary powered car people suddenly blame it on a lousy engine design. This was true in the '70s when seal technology wasn't very good yet. I also remember the days when Harley Davidson was owned by AMF (the bowling company!!!) and half of their products were defective when new yet their reputation is good now since things have changed.

The rotary is an extremely reliable and durable engine design. As I said in an earlier post, it only takes one small problem in any car to cause a really big problem.

I'll put any rotary engine against anyones piston engine in the following way. We each hold our engines at 8000 rpm until one engine dies. I know it won't be the rotary. The one that fails first will probably be the result of a failed coolant system though. Like I said one small failure that leads to a catastrophic big one. That's what happened with the oil metering system on the RX-8. there are no engine issues.