Attention Experts: Break In Oil. Needed or no?
10-21-2011, 03:16 PM
#1
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Attention Experts: Break In Oil. Needed or no?
So, I was at an engine shop this afternoon and noticed they had break in oil on the shelf. I asked the owner of the shop (40 years building all kinds of motors) about it and he said that it is definitely needed because you must bed engines in before the first normal oil change otherwise the bedding in process will never fully happen. He said if you start off with a synthetic this is even more true because the wear rate will be so low.
Rob at pineapple (built my motor) gave me a specific break in procedure and told me not to use synthetic motor oil until the break in procedure was finished. But I wonder if I should use specific break in motor oil or not? I see that Amsoil, RP, and others make specific break in oil.
I just wonder what you guys have heard about it.
Rob at pineapple (built my motor) gave me a specific break in procedure and told me not to use synthetic motor oil until the break in procedure was finished. But I wonder if I should use specific break in motor oil or not? I see that Amsoil, RP, and others make specific break in oil.
I just wonder what you guys have heard about it.
10-21-2011, 03:30 PM
#3
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Yeah that is what I have also heard. Pineapple actually recommends oil changes after 30 minutes of running, at 500, 1000. and 1500.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-21-2011 at 03:37 PM.
10-21-2011, 03:33 PM
#4
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you'll get a ton of different views on this and the reality is there's no real CONCRETE evidence to show one method is superior to another.
I know Rotarygod once mentioned he believed the best way to break in a rotary is to drive it like hell and change fluids often.
As for special break-in oil; I doubt it'll do you much good on a reman / rebuilt motor since the parts aren't brand spanking new. IF we were talking about a brand new motor with all new internals then MAYBE.
What I have always done with new cars is to change the oil at 500 miles and then at 1,000 while easing the motor into heavier engine load / speed along the way. (similar to Racing Beat's recommendations)
After that, regular oil changes and you'll be good.
I know Rotarygod once mentioned he believed the best way to break in a rotary is to drive it like hell and change fluids often.
As for special break-in oil; I doubt it'll do you much good on a reman / rebuilt motor since the parts aren't brand spanking new. IF we were talking about a brand new motor with all new internals then MAYBE.
What I have always done with new cars is to change the oil at 500 miles and then at 1,000 while easing the motor into heavier engine load / speed along the way. (similar to Racing Beat's recommendations)
After that, regular oil changes and you'll be good.
10-21-2011, 03:41 PM
#5
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Yeah I just wonder is the added zinc and phosphorus anti-wear additives would have any benefits in a rotary since it appears the break in oils are obviously catered towards piston motors. Plus I figured this site needed another oil related topic to discuss 
10-21-2011, 04:37 PM
#10
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Yeah I have always used magnets on the filter so i will continue to do so. When I pulled my oil pan I did see the fine wet sand like build up on the metal where the magnet was.
10-21-2011, 06:52 PM
#11
Rotary Evolution
more important than the arguable seating process is to get all the remnants out of the engine, which is where the 500 mile oil change comes into play.
i'd worry more about debris inside the motor circulating than components not seating properly in a rotary engine.
i'd worry more about debris inside the motor circulating than components not seating properly in a rotary engine.
10-21-2011, 07:03 PM
#12
So, I was at an engine shop this afternoon and noticed they had break in oil on the shelf. I asked the owner of the shop (40 years building all kinds of motors) about it and he said that it is definitely needed because you must bed engines in before the first normal oil change otherwise the bedding in process will never fully happen. He said if you start off with a synthetic this is even more true because the wear rate will be so low.
Rob at pineapple (built my motor) gave me a specific break in procedure and told me not to use synthetic motor oil until the break in procedure was finished. But I wonder if I should use specific break in motor oil or not? I see that Amsoil, RP, and others make specific break in oil.
I just wonder what you guys have heard about it.
Rob at pineapple (built my motor) gave me a specific break in procedure and told me not to use synthetic motor oil until the break in procedure was finished. But I wonder if I should use specific break in motor oil or not? I see that Amsoil, RP, and others make specific break in oil.
I just wonder what you guys have heard about it.
The rings just move back and forth, so the ring material has to have the right composition, spring tension against cylinder wall, and friction to bed the rings in.
From the factory all this has already been studied, and the car comes out with an oil with lots of moly, etc.
Since our compression seals mostly have once through oil like premix or sohn, I wouldn't worry about special, but it can't hurt to run any cheap dino to flush after 500 miles, etc., like Pineapple said, then go to the 0w40.
I still believe that the rotary is much easier to lube than a piston engine with cams and cylinder walls, and that break in oil is sure to be for piston engines.
I'd follow Pineapple just to make them happy, but I wouldn't put anything special which might be detrimental.
Last edited by REDRX3RX8; 10-21-2011 at 07:05 PM.
10-21-2011, 07:18 PM
#13
Rotary Evolution
the better question about break in procedures applies to the OMP and it's internal lubrication properties.
do the apex seals seat better with less lubrication? do they seat better with a properly bled OMP from the get go? do they seat better with premixing fuel for the first tank of gas?
those are better questions that apply to breaking in a rotary engine versus the internal rotating assembly which rarely has issue short of oil starvation.
piston engine crank oil has an impact on the seating of the compression seals(rings), in rotaries the crankcase oil is only used in a small amount on a small area of the internals to lubricate the compression seals(apex and side) for break in.
do the apex seals seat better with less lubrication? do they seat better with a properly bled OMP from the get go? do they seat better with premixing fuel for the first tank of gas?
those are better questions that apply to breaking in a rotary engine versus the internal rotating assembly which rarely has issue short of oil starvation.
piston engine crank oil has an impact on the seating of the compression seals(rings), in rotaries the crankcase oil is only used in a small amount on a small area of the internals to lubricate the compression seals(apex and side) for break in.
Last edited by Karack; 10-21-2011 at 07:24 PM.
10-22-2011, 03:52 AM
#15
So what about the resin that's sprayed inside new chambers as mentioned in the book. I never heard much discussion about that and when it wears off.
I would drive it easy, vary the speed, check for noises and leaks, and keep the revs low for a thousand or so miles.
I would drive it easy, vary the speed, check for noises and leaks, and keep the revs low for a thousand or so miles.
10-22-2011, 04:25 AM
#16
I agreed with rob.
What I did to my "maybe kinda new Reman engine" Was I changed the oil out at 500 miles. cuz I was thinking the engine should put out a lot of crap during break in. and it sucks to leave them running around in the oil system. I know the engine is Reman but many of the parts are new so the breakin rules should apply.
Oh yes buy some regular oil, Autozone/Advance/Whatever has all kinds of cheap oil change special every month for like 11.99 (lowest I've seen) not bad.
I bought a case of Shell Clean (Regular stuff) 10w40 for my upcoming FC break in. 12 quart for like 17 bux. not bad
What I did to my "maybe kinda new Reman engine" Was I changed the oil out at 500 miles. cuz I was thinking the engine should put out a lot of crap during break in. and it sucks to leave them running around in the oil system. I know the engine is Reman but many of the parts are new so the breakin rules should apply.
Oh yes buy some regular oil, Autozone/Advance/Whatever has all kinds of cheap oil change special every month for like 11.99 (lowest I've seen) not bad.
I bought a case of Shell Clean (Regular stuff) 10w40 for my upcoming FC break in. 12 quart for like 17 bux. not bad
10-22-2011, 08:32 AM
#17
personally i changed my 1st oil/filter at fifty miles. The magnet did catch a little--the oil was like brand new. But I didnt flush my oil coolers before i started the new engine. Oil is cheap.
I did crank mine 1st to build some oil pressure before I started it. I have always liked doing that.
I was also very careful to not get engine temps over 200F at 1st.
I have about 3-4K on my new engine and the oil is still staying very clean--it hardly discolors at all.
I am sure that will change
RG's approach makes sense to me, break it in like you are going to drive it, but doesnt he also say take it easy for the 1st couple hundred miles?
I did crank mine 1st to build some oil pressure before I started it. I have always liked doing that.
I was also very careful to not get engine temps over 200F at 1st.
I have about 3-4K on my new engine and the oil is still staying very clean--it hardly discolors at all.
I am sure that will change
RG's approach makes sense to me, break it in like you are going to drive it, but doesnt he also say take it easy for the 1st couple hundred miles?
10-22-2011, 11:44 PM
#18
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
personally i changed my 1st oil/filter at fifty miles. The magnet did catch a little--the oil was like brand new. But I didnt flush my oil coolers before i started the new engine. Oil is cheap.
I did crank mine 1st to build some oil pressure before I started it. I have always liked doing that.
I was also very careful to not get engine temps over 200F at 1st.
I have about 3-4K on my new engine and the oil is still staying very clean--it hardly discolors at all.
I am sure that will change
RG's approach makes sense to me, break it in like you are going to drive it, but doesnt he also say take it easy for the 1st couple hundred miles?
I did crank mine 1st to build some oil pressure before I started it. I have always liked doing that.
I was also very careful to not get engine temps over 200F at 1st.
I have about 3-4K on my new engine and the oil is still staying very clean--it hardly discolors at all.
I am sure that will change
RG's approach makes sense to me, break it in like you are going to drive it, but doesnt he also say take it easy for the 1st couple hundred miles?
10-23-2011, 04:41 AM
#22
Super Moderator
I agree, use a good quality Dino (gee most are cheap for you guys in the US), I would change it at around 600 miles and again at 1200 with a new Oil Filter at 1200...and then at 3000.
10-24-2011, 08:45 AM
#25
well--heck I have to be known for something?
But concerning the oil filter-- I am right my friend
The bypass valve in the oil filter changed to a higher opening pressure for the S2.
On cold starts with the S1 oil filter and a 40wgt oil--the by pass valve will open.
But concerning the oil filter-- I am right my friend
The bypass valve in the oil filter changed to a higher opening pressure for the S2.
On cold starts with the S1 oil filter and a 40wgt oil--the by pass valve will open.
Last edited by olddragger; 10-24-2011 at 08:50 AM.