I've read a few replies on the flooding threads lately to the effect that if you flood an MT, you shouldn't need to be towed to the dealer - you should still be able to push start your car. I know nothing about cars, but it seems to me that if the plugs are fouled, push starting wouldn't clean them any better than the flooded start procedure (i.e. not very well).

So, has anyone actually tried this (successfully or not)? Can anyone explain why push starting would be effective in a case when the flooded start procedure wasn't?

 

The manual says not to push nor pull start the RX8.

It does say to start a flooded engine use the following procedure:

1) try to start it for not longer than 10 seconds. If it doesn't start

2) wait 10 seconds

3) go to step 1

I had to do the above last week and it finally worked. If you keep the gas pedal pressed to the floor during the procedure, it actually prevents more gas going into the engine and flooding it more.

 

I roll started my FC rx-7 when it flooded (down a hill) and it fired up fairly readily when it was most definately not starting with the starter.

I think roll/push starting can be better because you may get higher engine rpms than with the starter (depending on how fast you push it obviously) and also the plugs may fire better due to the absence of the heavy load of the starter motor.

 

Ditto, I too have done this to the 7 when starter was hopeless and a spark plug socket wasn't handy.

 

The only times I ever had trouble with rotary flooding was twice when my car was in the panel shop (once with one of the RX-3's, and once with the first RX-7). Each time, after sitting for several days, they started it to move it out for predelivery cleaning, turned it off, and it immediately flooded. No amount of coaxing would get it to start on the key, and a push start didn't help either.

Both times, we eventually hooked it to a tow rope and pulled it behind another vehicle at around 10-15mph, eased out the clutch and it fired after a couple of seconds.

 

Right - when my FC flooded it was after backing it 10 yards out of the driveway to the front of the house then leaving it there overnight. Next morning - no dice (and really not much surprise on my behalf either, since I knew I was being lazy not running it around the block and I knew I could roll-start it down the hill if I needed to)

The '8 has yet to flood, however I generally don't make a habit of shutting it off cold. If it ever does I'll be certainly charging the battery up before I try too hard to start it as I think that's a pretty major factor in getting them going again (crank speed and good electronics function)

 

I've had very little trouble starting the RX8 tho I did sense a hesitation and had to do it twice or three times. Coming from the Lexus ES 300 with no gas necessary to start it took a little getting used to. I find that if I turn the key and push the accelerator all the way down and give it one good pump I have no issue starting it. Almost like the old days - lol. The one time that it felt like it had slightly flooded a kept the gas pedal compressed all the way and it started right up. Also something I remembered "from the old days"

 

I speculate that the higher RPMs would give the engine a better chance to evacuate excess gas and oil from the chamber. Also, in a flooded condition I'd think the apex sealing is compromised from raw fuel washing away the oil film from the housing. No compression = no start. Higher RPM might help the apex seals build compression. From what I've read; an RX-7 flooding trick was to squirt ATF down the intakes to help re-establish a seal as well as dissolve carbon deposits that could lead to rotor lock.

Well, at least we haven't had a rash of "rotor lock" complaints for RX-8

 

Has anybody that has had the car towed back to a service shop after flooding asked exactly what they do to get it back to normal?

I'm another one that has push-started an RX-7 several times in the past. Though I doubt flooding will be much of an issue at my elevation and ambient temp, I still have the fear of having to tow a brand new car because I was too giddy showing off to remember simple anti-flood measures.

 

I pull started my FB MANY times with my buddies RX-5 Cosmo [mint condition]. My RX-8 once with my Xtrerra. I went to the dealer, and they were totoally OK with the pull start as it saves them time. In a flooded condition, the car simply needs a 2500+ spin and it starts very quickly. My Xtrerra has a tow strap, very handy.

I tried ATF with mixed results. It also requires pulling\cleaning plugs which is annoying. Sometimes workd, sometime does not. The pull start works every time.

 

Mazda also says to only used a genuine Mazda certified mechanic when work needs to be performed on the vehicle. They also say to use ONLY genuine Mazda air filters as well as many other things. "The manual says" argument isn't a valid one. No one listens to it in regards to anything else as far as aftermarket mods are concerned so why this?

I have pushed and pull started so many different rotaries that I've lost count. All of them started, even one with a blown engine. It ran like absolute crap, had no power, needed to be floored just to continue running at all but it still started. This should be a good idea of how reliable this method is. Unfortuately you're SOL is you have an automatic.

If it floods, push start it. If this doesn't work then you'll either need to be facing down a decent hill or need to pull start it behind another car. The factory service manual recommendation should be used every time you get in the car. I know, I know, the manual doesn't say this. I don't care. Every time you start the car be sure to have the gas pedal planted to the floor. Crank it over for a couple of seconds and then remove your foot while it is still cranking over. You won't flood this way. Don't do this for 10 seconds or anything. Just a few revolutions of the engine should be enough.

I know many people swear by the atf method but logic alone dictates that it is a strange way to go about it. If we are trying to unflood an engine, why add more fluid to it? You can also use engine oil. The key to the atf is that it is thicker than water and therefore harder to get under the apex seals and let pressure bleed by. This is how it seems to promote compression building. Still a weird sort of logic. The only time you really need atf is if you have not run the engine in a couple of years. If carbon has built up within the seal areas, the seals may stick. Atf eats carbon and will unstick them. Just stick to a push/pull start. Atf also isn't spark plug friendly.

 

Concur. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to pop the clutch on an 8.

 

Ayep, I drove my RX-3 racecar home on one lung after it lunched all the apex seals in the front rotor during a race. Had to get it up to about 30km/h on a tow before it fired, but fire it did, and it got me home (albeit slowly).

(Had to heel-and-toe the throttle at traffic lights all the way home - I had to keep the revs over about four grand or it'd just die.)

 

I was wondering... (I know this isnt a major issue like many are making it to be) but is a MT more common to flood than an AT?

 

From the reports on this board, most of the floods have been ATs.

 

I dont think pusing the car would make the car "rev" higher, because the engine is still off, but what does the "RPM" mean. Revolutions of what? the Wheels? or something turning in the engine. ANyway I think the push starting actually "charges" the battery as if you were jumping it, since the battery recharges itself while in motion.

 

Revolutions of the eccentric shaft.

 

The battery is not recharged by being in motion. It gets recharged by the alternator which produces power when the engine is running.