JackBob

back story real quick on my 2004 Rx-8. Bought it last year off a guy for 6k. 125k miles 6spd mt and the whole nine yards.

When I bought it I put new coils wires and plugs on it and she ran great for 6 months then decided to flood and never start.

So here in the past month I finally got enough money to get new plugs. After 2 or 3 weeks its starting to start up rough (like its on one rotor) and lots of white smoke comes out the exhaust. This is what it did before it quit on me last time. It starts running great after revving it for like a minute. So I went to the dealership to see if I had any pcm flashes ever done and if not if I could and they wouldn't look at.

They brought up a warrenty sheet and said it didn't cover it and that it'd cost $130. Is this right? as it says on my warranty sheet that Msp16 flash is a recall
So what would be cheaper. the $130 or getting accessport?
I've done a lot of research on this site to see anything about the rough start up. Haven't found much so far. I am assuming its a flooding issue since it gets better after start up.

I can push the gas pedal to the floor (disabling fuel right?) and she'll still start up lol and also there is no stick under the hood on the hood of any pcm flash.
Please help? I know this is a lot to read and I'm sorry. Just posting any links to something like this so I can read it would be help to. Thanks

bse50

Bring it to the dealer for a compression test and ask them to update to the latest reflash.
At 125k the engine may easily be the culprit, especially if the previous owner didn't perform the recalls and the needed maintenance.

xexok

If they wont give you the flash then call up mazda on their 1-800 number and complain about that dealership. I am pretty sure you don't need warranty to get flashed.

A new accessport with MM tuning is around $600 I think, so if you were to pay for tyhe flash at $130 that would be quite a bit cheaper, but you get much more with the access port. I would say be prepared for a failing motor possibly(alwyas be prepared for this) so you may want to save that $600.

Why did you get the car for only 6k? Sounds like maybe that guy knew something about the car that he did not tell you.

I was gonna suggest a compression test, but if you had to save up to get plugs then I am doubting a new engine is in the budget.

JackBob

I used to have the money at the time. When I bought it we(me and my mechanic) went over everything to make sure it was functioning properly. One thing we never did figure out is what is the proper compression for the motor? when we were rolling it over and testing we got around 30 for all 4. Which I know is low on a piston motor

I'm surprised that in 125k miles the motor has never been replaced. He was a rich guy who got tired of it once the cat melted and screwed up the coils. So I gutted the cat and put new coils and it started up and ran just fine for 6 months

only reason I had to save up was because I wasn't gonna drive it till I got it legal which cost me like $700 =(
but I'm assuming a new engine would cost about half of what I paid for the car wouldn't it?

04Green

iTrader: (1)

JackBob,

Something to look at is the $100 thread below. All of that helped with my 04. I would specifically look at the grounding mods. That was what finally smoothed out my car, and that was with old plugs and coils. I think you can forgo the kits and just get some nice SS star washers and electrical grease. Put a greased washer under every ground you can find and tighten it down. Cleaning them first helps, but a SS washer will cut through most of the crud.

After that, do an ECU reset and see how it goes.

bse50

your mechanic should learn to use his tools of the trade like workshop manuals etc.
The data you're looking for is right there...

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

You can't get proper readings off a standard compression tester. You need one made for rotary's which is why people are suggesting to go to the dealer and pay for it.

It should be about $80 for the compression test at the dealer, some charge $100 though. As for the flashes those are free and are considered recalls. If you are not on the current flash then the deal needs to update that for you.

ken-x8

Hope this link works. If it does, look at post #8 by RotaryResurrection on how to do a compression test with a conventional piston engine tester.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...mpression+test

Not as accurate or official as the actual Mazda compression tester, but it will tell you if the engine is any good or not. (Ignore the nay-sayers who argue with him. RR is in the rotary rebuilding business and knows his stuff.)

As others have said, you should get the latest flash for free. 4206f was a recall, and they're required to do it. MSP16 was a special program, and the instructions to dealers were to do it to any RX-8 that came in for any kind of service.

Absence of stickers means nothing. A lot of dealers just don't put them on. But Mazda has records.

Ken

xexok

Just the engine alone before you even pay to install it would cost more than half of what you paid for the car, if you get a newly rebuilt one. I'm sure you could fins a used one somewhere, but your probably better off getting a rebuilt one.

I know mazmart is selling rebuilt engines, but about 3 months ago their price was $4600 + your engine core. They said they are more expensive than mazda but have a higher quality product also. Call up a dealership and ask the price for a engine from them.

You only paid 6k for the car, as long as it does not have a rebuilt title you could probably recoup a decent amount of money back even with the busted engine if you sold it.

bse50

I'm not sure how correct your pricing is xexok on Mazmart's engines, the last time i heard it was different than that.

expo1

He is not that far off, They are no longer making engines with rebuilt housings. I guess I am not the only Mazmart customer to have a engine lose compression after 40,000 miles on a rebuilt that used 2nd hand housings. In order to keep the quality up Paul told me they were moving away from the rebuilds with used housings which increases the costs. They still might have some $3,500 engines left over, one would have to ask.

With the builder they have in house (Rick Engman ) I guess working with used parts like housings is like Picasso painting on cardboard.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

most of the time the lots of the stuff in the core is not even reusable. I "guess" that's why Paul would rather have more new parts than try to do it with used parts.

when you break open a Rotary engine you will know why most of the time, especially true for higher mileage engines, have really little usable part.

Mazdatrix said you cannot lap Rx-8 side housing, I forgot to ask why tho. maybe I should ask.

even at 4600, I think its worth it to get it from Mazmart.

We should be thankful that 13B-MSP's parts is actually the cheapest compare to older rotary. try it with REW or any older 13B/12A engine parts, it will give you a heart attack.

oh btw OP, MSP16 is FREE ---- I repeat, FREEEEEEEEEEEE !!!! if it hasn't been done, tell the people @ dealership you went to to go suck on his own pee pee and call Mazda directly, its a god damn recall and they HAVE to do it for free (they will bill Mazda for the 0.2 hours, that's their problem lol)

xexok

I'm not sure on the exact price, the post I saw was from February and nobody has posted in that topic since then. https://www.rx8club.com/mazmart-88/remanufactured-rotary-engines-104255/page14/

bse50

That's why I said i was unsure
Prices tend to fluctuate a lot!

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

White smoke at start up is indicative of a failed coolant seal. Coolant enters the combustion chamber and burns off in the hot exhaust. Creating white smoke. Check your coolant overflow tank for foaming and bubbling during idle.

JackBob

Thanks you guys first off for the info.

First off my mechanic is unemployed and recently moved away to try and find a job. He's good at what he does and knows about rotories since he's built some back in the day. Never knew about compression I guess haha

but so far I've been able to fix my problem with making sure my car is fully warm before I shut it off and after I shut it off I roll it over with my foot to the floor to burn up excess gas. Which I have to tap the starter at first so it doesn't start. I know it has to be bad on the starter but its atleast a temp fix.

Now the grounding idea sounds very logical. Since when like a fan kicks on my car goes from revving at 4k to 3500 and my left front speaker drops out. And this happens all the time. Not to mention the navigation doesn't work. The battery I have in it is not to spec i'm pretty sure. I'm guess I might want to start there to get my electicals back to normal?

also when it idles it always bubbles out of the coolant tank and goes everywhere. When I got it we sat there for hours and hours and hours flushing the system and its still kinda muddy but not as bad as it was. But even after 3 hours of "burping" it she still bubbles out. My coolant tank level generally sits at the bottom as it doesn't expand far enough then to blow out. And she always has white smoke coming out when its on. Just a little bit but I thought that since with no cat and it burns oil that maybe it was the oil and when it was really bad just unburnt gas or something of the sort?

and on my sheet the 4206f was an voluntary emission recall. All they did was upgrade the pcm?

and also ken for the compression test thread. If I can borrow one I'm going to do that. Just to make sure the motor is good

also 04green, I think i'm going to do all those things for the $100 or below. That was a really good read and helpful =)

ken-x8

It was voluntary in the sense that Mazda declared they would do it, rather than be ordered to do it. But once in place it was required.

They did some tests to see if the engine was OK. If it was, then the only action was to do the reflash. MSP16 was just a reflash. I suggest printing that one out, reading the part where they say it has to be done, then showing it to a dealer.

Ken

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

You have a coolant seal leaking into your combustion chamber. Hence the never ending bubbling. And the constant low coolant level. Have your favorite mechanic do a cooling system pressure test. If pressure drops and there are no external coolant leaks then it's time for a rebuild.

MrSinister

I just stopped in at my FORD dealer and he said MSP16 is only if you have problems. That is also what they said about the clutch recall thing. Is that correct or do I need to call mazda also. Man I hate shops that don't care at all.

JackBob

If it was leaking into the chamber wouldn't the motor always run really hot? It runs at normal temps just when it warms up it boils out of the coolant tank. And it doesn't even bubble all that much. Just normal expanding water/coolant kinda bubbles. I'm not trying to deny what your saying is true. I just don't want that to be the case. As that would blow *****.

I'm reading on the warranty sheet printed out that the last thing done to the PCM was 5-02-2005. Sounds like that is really out of date.

and thank you ken, if I can find it and print it out I will lay that on them. I mean it may not fix my problem but it sure as hell can help.

and if you look at youtube for deflooding videos of this car and how it smokes. That is what mine will do on start up if I don't roll over the motor after shutting it off

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

That's complete bull. not to mention. why would you believe **** from a FORD dealer about your MAZDA.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

5-02-2005? that's way too outdated.

it sounds like MSP16 might NOT solve your problem, but you should get it done, its free anyway.

Tell them you experience massive smoke and LOST OF POWER WHEN HOT.