Why not use a 4 port JDM ecu? If I recall correctly a forum member did that when his 4 port engine crapped out, he bought a complete JDM drivetrain and did an auto to manual swap. Seems to me that the JDM would be closer to your final goal than a US 6 port.

I had considered that, but wrt the Copp AP I don't have that particular software. If I have to purchase M/E t]software I could consider it. However, there were some software upgrades I know of for JDM ECUs that are known to cause CEL issues; one was for a ignition coil CEL code that was unique for Japan, and then there might be complications with upgrading it then maybe. M/E might still be able to handle that, but I don't really want to spend the money for add'l pcm software control if I don't have to.

had a break of warm-ish weather where i wasn't busy, so, i successfully completed this modification today.

went to my sacrificial AT 4 port engine harness and de-pin'd one wire [GREEN/BLACK] from the X-18 bulkhead harness plug and one wire [VIOLET] from one the PCM to engine plugs. [picked those colours because pin 4F, per the FSM, is violet, and picked green/black because it was the next wire up on the MT-wired bulkhead] after getting those wires, i crimped and soldered on a 1 pin molex connector. i felt the connector was "needed" because the engine side of the plugs in the PCM compartment include the X-18 bulkhead, along with plugs 1, 2, and 3. plugs 4, 5, and the male pinned section of the X-18 bulkhead are part of the car harnessing. if i ever had to remove the engine loom [say, to pull the engine again], i'd rather unplug the 1 pin molex and have the harnesses separated, vs. having to do more intrusive actions. also, i didn't feel like digging out the car side of X-18, snipping another wire, and extending it to PCM pin 4F.

in the cabin, snipped the GREEN/BLACK and BLACK/GREEN wires from the TCM connector next to the clutch pedal, crimped and soldered in a 2 pin molex connector, and did the same on my WPT-721 clutch pigtail. plugged everything together, fired up the car, held the pedal down, in gear. no throttle blipping. :ylsuper:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d070ca1673.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...edd9f37940.jpg

Need help
 

I’m doing this swap and was wondering if there a way you can contact me plz help

Help with...what? I don't mind helping, but we need *something* to work with.

What's going on?

I still have the 8. At least for a while longer. It will be visiting the local dealership on Monday to get all the outstanding recalls processed (front control rod / bushing or similar, both front air bags, and the fuel pump).

I might have a buyer lined up. It is really hard to let her go, but she's been sitting the driveway for far too long and needs a good owner.

Hi guys.
I'm about to swap 5MT -> 6AT and wanted to ask several questions:
1) Are powerplant frames same on MT and AT? I know that 5MT and 6MT frames are the same but are MT and AT?
2) Same question about the driveshaft. I have a carbon fiber driveshaft on my 5MT. Do I need to get metal one from 6AT (or 4At if they are the same) or I can just use mine

1. PPF is the same on all cars.
2. Driveshafts are dimensionally identical. Use the carbon fiber one if its in good shape

BigBadChris, thank You.
One more question: is the spline part of the driveshaft same too? Will MT spline yoke fit AT?

That I do not feel confident answering. I had a local rotary shop do my swap! That being said, I believe the Original Poster indicated that he used the (heavier) AT driveshaft on his manual swap without issue.

Wait, if you have the 5-speed, that means it's a 4-port, right?

I don't think there would be an ECU that would work with both the 4-port engine and 6AT. The 6AT was paired with the 6-port, so you would need the 6-port engine as well. The 4AT was paired to the 4-port engine.

BigBadChris, thank you for the information. I've already ordered a 6AT from USA, it would take a month for it to be delivered to my place. But I haven't ordered a driveshaft and a powerplant frame. Hope mine will fit otherwise it will take me a month more to get right PPF and driveshaft.


UnknownJinX, you are right. But to be honest i must say I'm swapping piston engine using stock 6AT transmission from RX-8/Miata and Miata TCM (it has the same CAN data transferred between ECM and TCM but more suitable for piston engines shifting map). The trick is I don't want to face issues fitting non-RX-8 transmission to RX-8 frame and also I don't want to remove RX-8 powerplant frame facing issues with rear diff case mount and weakened body frame.

Excellent work on the rev blipping guys!
I've just done a Auto to manual swap in the UK on my Black Cherry JDM 4 port Auto.
Kept the 4 port engine as running great and only 50k miles with great compression. Fitted a 6 speed manual gearbox. UK ECU, UK engine loom and ABS brain.

...only issues were
1, no power to starter motor (as per previous posts) we sorted this with an additional wire from the relay to the ignition.
2, the revs blipping to 1200 rpm when stationary and in-gear with clutch down.

Will now run the work around as per your posts.

Update - clutch wired in and grounded and the rev blipping has gone away - all good.:worship:

By the way - I had a dyno run earlier in the year as an auto and the results were predictably bad, with the manual gearbox on and no other mods (same stock intake, exhaust etc) it pulled 20% more torque and 15% more hp at the wheels - all measured on the same dyno which runs on the rear wheel hubs. So the swap over is well worth it.

I understand the want to run a 6 speed instead of a 5 speed, but for a 04/05 AT wouldn't it make it at least a little easier to put a 5 speed in it? Both 4 port motors as far as I'm aware, so maybe the AT ECU would play nicely?

PC being slow I asked this already didn't show me tho

It's been done... there's a (related) thread about it.

it was fun (but i felt bad for your wallet) watching your car transform over the years shell

I swapped an AT 6 port to a manual transmission, and I will say it’s a lot of work. You will need to change the transmission, starter, clutch, flywheel, proper harness and ecu if you wanna do it right, you’ll need the clutch pedal and linkage, the slightly smaller manual brake pedal (for clearance; or you can cut the regular one), there’s two clutch switches that need to be put in with the pedal, and you will likely have to swap out the ignition switch or rig something up because there’s a switch in the parking gear on the automatic selector so you can’t start the car unless it’s in park, it connects to the bottom of the ignition switch. And last but not least the shifter itself and the guage cluster will also need to be swapped.

it doesn’t make a big difference because regardless, the ecu doesn’t receive any of the signals it normally does from the automatic transmission because the manual ones don’t even have the connections for the automatic harness to connect to.

Would the manual harness hook up to the auto ECU? I don't see why not, but I haven't been hands on with a manual 8 ECU/harness

When I had the website rebuilt and hosted on a new platform, the old pics/directory went away and all the forum writeups with pic links went down.

I still have all the pics in folders backed up on my computer. If some mod etc. wants to take the time to upload all my pics to the forum somewhere then go back and edit all the posts and re-link the pics in order I will gladly supply the pics for you to do so. It's not something I have the time to do at this point.

That would be greatly appreciated, if any mods are still going through here. Worse comes the worse I'll use a JDM ECU

It will but it might have issues because it is not receiving info from the automatic tranny inputs/outputs. The engine should still run but it’s better to use a manual ECU. Speaking of which there is also an anti theft system consisting of the ECU, a keyless entry module (located under the passenger dash), and the ignition switch, if these parts are not all from the same car with matching programming the anti theft system will immobilize the car and it will not crank or start without some sort of bypass.

That's why I figured the auto ECU would be easier to use, because it's already be paired to the parts in the car. I guess I'll see for myself, if anything goes wrong I can use the ECU that comes with the motor I'm getting, and have it reprogrammed using FORscan or what have you.

understandably, I had to change my ignition switch anyway because someone attempted to break in and steal it, however I have heard the auto ecu will have less power and might go into sort of a limp mode that really effects performance capabilities

it’s unlikely you’ll find a shop willing to do this unless they specialize is Mazda/Rx-8s, dealerships most likely won’t unless they’re super cool where you live for some reason. I found an 04 6 port automatic, I believe it was a 6sp auto but I can’t remember. I found a perfectly good 6spd manual tranny for $100, don’t ask how cuz tbh I don’t know, I bought a new flywheel, counter balance, dual friction stage II/III clutch disk, and stage III pressure plate, but obviously you could use the stock ones, and I just used a stock brake and clutch pedal from a junk yard car. You’ll also need a starter to fit the Manual transmission and I’ve heard about the starter not matching the iron but I think that’s just for the 4 port engines because mine fit fine. That’s basically it for the mechanical parts, but in order for everything to run smoothly, you’ll want to get a donor car, maybe with a blown engine or something so it’s cheap, then pull the entire ignition switch dash guage cluster, ECU, and the keyless entry module from underneath the passenger side glovebox. There are also 2 clutch safety switches that attach to the pedal and will need to be hooked up to the harness. The harness for my car had been chewed by rats so I had to replace it anyway, so I’m not sure if the automatic had the connections for it or not, but I don’t see why it would, other than ease of manufacturing if they use the exact same harness on both cars. If you want to be able to use the keys to get in, I would also recommend swapping the front doors, I’m not sure if the passenger door even has a keyhole atm but I swapped them both anyway just to be safe.

Well I'll put my money where my mouth is and see for myself

let us know how it goes

Let’s be clear; 6 or 5 speed is irrelevant. It’s not any easier, it’s exactly the same as far as installation and general operation goes. The difference is the 5-spd has larger gaps between gears. In theory the 4-port had more mid range torque to offset that. In reality the 6-spd is likely faster and sportier for that same reason. The 5-spd is stronger, but maybe a moot point in a naturally aspirated 4-port.

My bet is you have a potty mouth and that’s where you’ll be flushing your money down and away in :hahano:

Not only will you not be using FORscan to reprogram this pcm, but you can’t program functions that don’t exist in it to begin with. You clearly aren’t doing due diligence to educate yourself on the subject first, then proceed with logical action second.

who exactly are you talking to ? Just for clarification but I don’t think the attitude is necessary, everyone is just here for information or to offer help...

Cool it guys...:)
Any further heated postings and a force 7 day HOLIDAY will be summoned forthwith.

Just to add, Do Not Attempt Any swaps unless you are mechanically competent, do lots of reading here and understand the process.
YES the mechanical part is relatively easy, THE ISSUE is the electrics, like control modules, some switches and yes wiring.
I don't care if it is an AT into a MT frame or a 4 Port Engine into a 6 Port or Visa Versa.
PLUS, what Your Personal 'Finished' and Working Standards are that is acceptable to you, what works and what does not work.
It is NOT a simple or easy task...PERIOD.

I didn’t mean for that to sound aggressive I was genuinely curious cuz there was no quote

That's OK, you are a new member...we wont extradite you to Siberia yet, unless you go too far :)

Generally a poster will 'quote you' directly IF they are being specific.
Or a post submitted directly after your own (not quoted) is considered to be directed to you.

Take care and '''Stop the Spread""...keep your distance from others and wash your hands regularly. :)

that’s what I figured his text just didn’t seem to relate to what I was saying which is why I asked. But thanks for the info, I’ll keep that in mind.

if you were even paying attention at all it’d be more than clear who was being referred to, because it addressed multiple statements by the same person, but let me help you out some and then maybe you can go back and review all the recent posts to be more clear about it how each point referred back to what:


after being on here for 15 years I’ve seen my share of people with hair-trigger typing fingers. My motto to all newbies is to “read more and post less”. Because you’d also then know it’s not an attitude, it’s just me. :)


.

like I said I really wasn’t trying to cause any problems or escalate things in any way I was in all honesty just trying to clarify. Again I’m sorry if I made it seem any other way

we’re just talking man, no need to blow up and or be overly apologetic, I just have an in your face style and am more often than not just joking/clowning around

So glad I found this thread I’ve been looking into doing this exact same thing on my 04 automatic since the transmission suicided recently if you’ve got any tips for me since I’ve got the same year car as you did your swap on would be much appreciated

Keeping AT PCM
 

What kind of issues could be expected if the 4-port engine and AT PCM are kept and just the transmission is swapped? The reason for this configuration is that in order to pass inspection in my state, the VIN of the PCM/ECU must match the chassis VIN.

Those of you that have temporarily used the AT PCM before you got the MT PCM sorted, did you notice any drivability issues? Did you read the CEL codes that came up?

Of the codes/faults that the PCM would throw due to the missing automatic transmission hardware, are there any that can't be cleared through VersaTuner or MazdaEdit?

I am amazed this thread is alive since 2008. Kudos to Kevin and all of you. I am in the midst of a 2005 4 port Auto Shinka conversion to 6 port Manual. Picked up a 2007 salvage from VA as a donor car and is just about a carcass at this point. My past 2008 40th Anniversary lives on the endurance track circuit with American Endurance Racing and after a bunch of cool cars in between I am ready to go full circle for my street/track car with the 2005 Shinka converted to manual and otherwise restored. I did correspond with Kevin and he is a nice and helpful gentleman. Somewhere above Kevin made comment that if you didn't like the clutch pedal switch(es) "pigtail" approach (requires one switch for starter and one for PCM to know how to manage idle with or without the clutch engaged/disengaged and to disengage cruise if clutch is depressed) by taking the whole interior out including the dash and HVAC to swap the AT body harness to the MT body harness. Totally unnecessary as Kevin said. I thought the attached photo might give you some insight on what that would involve. Also SaturnNights, your stuff above is spot on and awesome. Thanks for the tip on avoiding having to run a wire to PCM from clutch and using the AT control to PCM now unused harness for a donor wire. Fantastic.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...8093c1ed66.jpg

my AT to MT swap
 

I just returned from east TN after Rotary Resurrection did a AT to MT on my 2004 RX8.

Read more here:

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...1/#post4943313

currently in the process of swapping my 2007 CWP from 6AT to 6MT including the rear end :rolleyes:

so far i have confirmed the engine harnesses are identical between 6port motors , successfully started another 2006 AT with my 2007AT steering column and key switched out (2006AT red shinka had a bad steering column)

mazda says they want nothing to do with helping me sort the keys so im in a pickle.. the 2007AT CWP has a key for the door and trunk that now go with the red cars steering column, and ill have a ecu from 2004 MT car with old keys and not sure if its gonna start lol. i have repaired the 2006AT red shinka steering column and put it back in the 2007 CWP because of the smart key thing... probably gonna have to swap both again i guess

Progress today :D sad to see perfectly good running shinka get gutted but only because the white car is nicer!
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...f90caa01bf.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...13b9a377b4.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...62527a28c4.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...da598221fb.jpg

Installing the flywheel was super simple with the counterweight already there ... the reman block has 22k on it now and has been well tested the past 8 months.

Gonna get everything cleaned up and harness swapped tomorrow. The shinka subframe is goin in as well with the urethane (very freakin rigid stuff not foam)

Just learned that this shinka is #1499/1500.... sad to see it get stripped its so clean and the red looks nice in the engine bay. I guess i will just have to manual swap this one too :P

I have accomplished a lot today everything in the engine bay is done and all power working but havent tried starting yet its too late for straight header :P

I am struggling with the power plant frame seems like its 1 inch shorter than it should be but i know they are no different between auto and manual because of this thread and am confused atm. gonna drop the rear subframe since last step is also put the rear shocks in and see if i can get it bolted together first then install the subframe..i doubt anyone is gonna respond here in time so back at it tomorrow!

lucky you, you get a response.

the powerplant frame connects the tail of the transmission to the rear differential. the powerplant frame itself will only be able to be bolted up once those two pieces are within reasonable alignment with each other.

you might find that you have to carefully jack up the transmission to be further up in the trans tunnel before you're able to line up the powerplant frame holes with the transmission.

as an aside, i recommend that you make use of the tunnel brace that has the threaded hole in it, because that threaded hole [and an appropriate length bolt] is used for final pitch/alignment of the powerplant frame, and by extension, the pitch/alignment of the transmission and rear differential. i'm sure one can eyeball it, but there's a spec for the bolt protrusion within the FSM.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...1f1320a107.png
you're almost there. keep it up :)

Your Power Plant Frame (PPF) may be same auto and manual or not. There was a change from 4 speed auto to 6 speed auto. Earlier models you need a manual or later S1 PPF. And yes it may not fit together until everything else is in place (engine and rear diff horizontal not tilted and then the PPF is slid up in level position with two people raising it together, one in the front and one in the rear. You can do it alone if you have done it before or use jacks in front and rear and keep it level while PPF is goin up.