Thanks for the help man I found the problem I have a cut harness but its no biggie i'll just rig it up

i have an 04 4 speed AT(handed down) that recieved the recall engine swap.i wanna keep the engine but i want a MT..should i trade in for a MT or would an transmission swap be logical since i already have a new engine

I appreciate your detailed explanation
My 8's value decreased dramatically since I bought it
So this thread is literally my life saver

Yeah, at this point you have nothing to lose by doing your own work and swapping one over...you won't be devaluing the market value of the car or any such foolishness.

RR your threads have helped me with my Rebuilt,., Your awesome and now my bro looking to purchase an auto to swap to stick , Ill show him this and he can decide , thanks for your threads.

A little late Kevin.....but a big thanks to you from all of us @ the great RX-8 community for freely giving over your wealth of RE knowledge to those who are our own fixers- mechanics.

All of the many many owners you have personally rebuilt their RX-8's back to former glory...without price gouging have all held you in high regard.

Thanks for this thread too on converting an AT to Manual Transmission.
While I normally would never suggest such a swap because of all the different parts which must be renewed...it can be done as you have shown.

Cheers bud.

In the process of doing this swap. Wouldn't be able to do it without this thread :icon_tup:

Same here, but with the some help from a shop.

I'm curious what all would need to be pulled to do a full PCM swap. From what I gather it would boil down to the following, enabling completion without the need for a dealer visit:

All from same 6MT donor:

-ECU
-ABS Module
-Immobilzer
-Ignition key harness
-Bound Keys (ideally two or more)

An option for me is to just keep my 4AT PCM, suppress the TCM communication CEL, and use my existing Adaptronic Select to control the APV and P2 injectors. That's my current plan, but a friend just informed me his 6MT was just totaled and I now have the option of a full blown "brain" transplant.

Thanks again, RR. It's taken me 7 years but I'm finally doing it.

So I just finished dropping everything in, went to hit the key and nothing. Not sure what it is but it's doing almost what it would do when I had the car in any gear other than park. No click no nothing, just radio turns on and off. Pretty sure everything is wired up right, went ahead and skipped the clutch wiring because I can live without hitting the clutch to start

Any suggestions?

You might need that clutch wiring. I have to push the clutch in to start, otherwise I get the same behavior as your symptoms... Not saying that's the only thing, but I think it's something...

From my understanding of reading through this thread countless times is no wiring is needed unless the want for full oem style starting is wanted.

Interesting. I haven't read the whole thread.

Finally have a fully funtional 6speed swapped rx8. The wiring from the ignition to the starter has to be done to bypass the lock. I wired mine directly together instead of hooking it up to the clutch. Many thanks for the info, couldn't have finished the swap without this thread

Was it a easy swap? How much was the total damage?

As easy as pulling the motor with tranny out and putting it back in. That probably had to be the hardest part honestly. Total damage was 1500 from a single parts car roughly plus 200 for reprogram and an extra key

used this as a guide
 

I used this guide to convert my 04 At, to 6 port MT, thank you very much this helped me all the way through it.

I just went through the exact same process. Thankfully because of your thread I had the ABS unit pulled from the same car that the 6MT ECU came from.

I was about to go outside and swap the modules and it started raining here. I may have to wait till tomorrow to be 100% done with this swap.

Thanks again for this awesome post!

Shell

FINALLY DONE!


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...5d532712aa.jpg

For others that have successfully done this conversion have you noticed throttle overrun kicking in when you have the clutch pedal depressed and the car in gear stationary at idle?

I've noticed a periodic rise above 1300 RPM then overrun kicks in and it settles down to 800 rpm to rise again... rinse and repeat... AFRs look like an sine wave between 20 and 14.7.

Pretty sure I've ruled out my clutch switch as a potential source... Will be taking a look at my neutral switch on the tranny next.

I read through Mckerran's thread, and he did something similiar, but dumped the car because it wouldnt pass California emissions. I dont know a whole lot about emissions laws. ShellDude, are you concerned about having that problem, or was that because he used a JDM ecu?

I'm assuming I'll be fine with inspection... All readiness tests have passed. There is a discrepancy between VINs though as the dealer kept the original VIN on the 6MT ECU so now I have my stamped VIN and the ECU reported VIN (which are obviously different).

I do have a mileage discrepancy too between the two clusters but I plan on going in for inspection with the AT cluster installed (which matches reported mileage).

When I sell I'll disclose the swap and VIN difference... having (assumedly gone through inspection beforehand) I should be able to assure the buyer that it won't be a problem.

I'll give them both clusters and make that their problem to deal with. Perhaps leave the AT cluster installed with instructions on how they can install the MT one (at their own risk).

But none of that has anything to do with the problem I'm trying to figure out. I want a nice steady idle regardless of clutch / gear state.

Have ruled out overrun kicking in. Moving it up to 1600 doesn't affect when it cuts.

Load jumps from about 12.6 to 13.3 when you go in gear. Oddly enough I don't see the PCM reporting any change in the neutral / in gear indicator.

I haven't gotten underneath it yet to trace wires for the neutral switch on the transmission but I did find that lowering my idle down to 750 (maps A,B,C,D,F,G) and E to 100 (I don't think E really matters here) did the trick.

It still jumps up an elusive 300-400 RPM when I go in gear but I guess the difference in load between 1200 and 1300 is sufficient for whatever triggers the fuel cut to not kick in.

There's got to be a table somewhere that controls this jump but it isn't exposed in MEP.

If things hold steady after the next couple drive cycles I'll probably just move along.

Hey guys did the swap using jap import w27k on car . (half cut)
I ran eng before pulling . transferred eng/trans /
went beautiful till i went to crank spins fine no run.
tried 4port ecu still no run.
programmed jap ecu to car still have fast flashing sec lite.
what did i do wrong ? i didn't run starter wires from switch, just jumped (grn/red and wht/blu) under ecu @ big plug . cranks just fine, no comm w/pats

went so far as to get locksmith to try to program keys to no avail
:cussing: :scratchhe :icon5:

Things to try
 

Spelling
Punctuation
Grammar
Capitalization
Speaking in complete sentences

Seriously, I have no idea what I just read

what did u miss
broke it down does that help

No spark, no fuel, or both?

It should still fire up with your original ECU.

I'm thinking harness / wiring.

i got it don't kow what did it but it runs now

next ? immobilizer location? same as rke module??

couldn't find rke module on donor car (jap half cut)

Trip to dealer... Limp in with 4AT ECU connected. Hand them the 6MT one and request they flash it "as built" marrying it to your existing immobilzer and keys.

They'll likely forget to reset the ESS so do the 20 brake stomp procedure and when you get home install the electronics module portion of the ABS module from the same car as your donor ECU and you should be good to go minus a periodic CEL for your clutch sensor.

Post back here if you figure out how to fix the clutch sensor CEL. I ended up suppressing it with MazdaEdit.

can they make the japanese ecu work or can i use my j2534 programmer to complete this task, I've done it for a mazda mpv ecu installation what is so different for rx8?
which "Mazda edit"did u buy? how much was it?

I don't think they are going to touch a JDM ECU.

It is my understanding only a MDS can do this procedure.

Mazdaedit Personal Edition by Epifan software. Google it.

i have a m/t ecu if ya need one but it would probably need to be flashed at the dealer to work with your keys

ive got access to a complete car wrecked with almost the exact mileage as my car. thats why was trying to figure out which module actually held the immobilzer part of the system to coin your term "brain transplant". shopkey only shows rke module @ pass kick panel. my japanese car don't have same box anywhere.

Take the ECU and ABS module (it too is under your hood, right next to the fuse box) from your donor.

Limp to the dealer with the 4AT ECU. Hand them the donor (USDM) 6MT ECU and ask they marry it to your Immobilzer (commonly called as built).

They will likely not know how to pair the ABS so when you get home just drop in the ABS from the same donor.

I have a 2007 A/T (RHD/JDM - GT with Bose & 18").. anyone know if the 3rd gen rx7 gearbox can work for the swap and if so what else would be required?

shell and rotary ressurcation both have threads on doing the swap. idk if a 7 trans will work but it might. if you need ecu, abs, driveshaft, rear end etc lmk i have it all

The gearbox will not mount up. The bell housing and tail shaft were changed from rx7 to rx8.

I have hopes again �� Thanks everyone, even the dumb ones - for showing me what not to do. Special thanks to RR. Love the no BS write up.
Xlrx8

Well this is half wrong. The rx8 and FD rx7 use the sale bell housing bolt pattern. In fact all rotary engines do. There is a discrepancy between auto and manual, the 93-11 auto trans models have more bellhousing bolt holes than the manual models. But this is not a problem if for instance you want to put a manual trans behind a 93-11 auto engine block, because the manual trans bellhousing holes line up with the same holes on the auto block, you have an extra hole on the auto block that do not get used, you have one hole on the auto block that is missing for the manual trans but its no problem.

So whether you are trying to mount the FD gearbox behind an rx8 auto or manual block, yes it will "mount up" to the engine.

Now you are correct that it will not "mount up" to the rx8 PPF on the rear side. Im also unsure of shifter alignment or driveshaft length.

having completed this swap a couple of days ago [lazily swapping an 04 4 port automatic to 6 port 6 speed over the past four months], i have some additional input to provide.

without modifying any harnessing whatsoever, when you try to start the now swapped MT engine, nothing will happen. this is because the starter interrupt "test" with the AT chassis harness actually makes a trip through the AT engine harness, down the trans tunnel, to the park/neutral position switch on the AT trans. without the switching in place to complete the circuit, starter relay doesn't get energized. on MT vehicles, the starter interrupt "test" is the clutch starter interlock switch, and then it runs down to the starter relay with no further interruption.

on my vehicle, i did two things. first, i cut and soldered the LIGHT GREEN/RED and WHITE/BLUE wires together at the large bulkhead that connects between the chassis harness and the engine harness in the PCM box.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...3c318e3f1d.png


this now completes the starter relay circuit. at this point, the key can be turned, and the starter will run. and second, i spliced the WHITE/BLUE wire a little after it runs off the back of the ignition switch, and soldered in between the spliced wires an appropriate length pigtail connector, to plug in to the stock clutch starter interrupt switch.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...afba93de9c.png

with this done, the wiring travels pretty much how the MT chassis harness did, minus the brief jaunt away from the fuse box, over to the engine bulkhead, through the solder joint, and to the starter relay.

now, after driving it a little bit to work on breaking in the engine [rebuilt courtesy of RotaryResurrection], i have noticed the issue experienced by ShellDude, and i can explain why.

let's assume the car is running, and the shifter is in neutral. right now, the PCM is aware that the transmission is in neutral, due to the neutral position switch, and the engine is idling correctly.

now, let's assume that the car is running, and the shifter is in gear. right now, the PCM is aware that the transmission is in gear, due to the neutral position switch, and the engine has some type of load placed on it, to propel the car.

NOW, let's assume that the car is running, and the shifter is in gear, AND the clutch pedal is down. right now, the PCM is aware that the transmission is in gear, due to the neutral position switch, and the engine has some type of load placed on it...but...it's now revving with no load. the RPMs keep blipping.

enter the "clutch pedal position switch" [CPP switch]. with the second switch on the clutch pedal installed and wired correctly, the PCM is aware that the clutch pedal is down, and the engine idles as it should.

when the clutch pedal is down, the PCM must see pin 4F grounded.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...cd140ea0e0.png


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6bf95b8d63.png

run a pin from PCM pin 4F, into the cabin, to the CPP switch, to ground.

this switch being sensed as not present, or malfunctioning, can actually trip a DTC, and illuminate the MIL.

sooo...yeah. chalk me up as someone else that has successfully swapped AT -> MT, and 4-port -> 6 port.

dude, this is huge.... now I need some decent weather to run the wire!

well, here's my idea. [this assumes that you did what i did, and did not actually convert any of the automatic harnessing in the car, aside from the engine]

there's about 17 wires of interest that run from the now-useless AT TCM module plug, that lives by the clutch pedal [because the AT TCM bolts in place of the clutch pedal]. these wires run alll the way out to the engine bay, into the PCM compartment, where they pass through bulkhead X-18. from X-18, they're supposed to continue through the engine harness, down the trans tunnel, into the AT trans.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...c3b99570e9.png


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...c48f990802.png


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6e59b2e9a4.png


the TCM module plug even has a ground we can use to ground the other side of the CPP switch!

so, pick one of the 17, snip from X-18, appropriately crimp/extend/solder/whatever and connect to PCM pin 4F. take that wire selection from the TCM module plug, wire it to one side of the CPP switch. wire the other side of the CPP switch to one of the grounds on the TCM module plug [looks like we might have pins 2M and 2Q available, the wires are BLACK/GREEN], and that's it.

if we do it right, we can make use of parts of the now-dead AT wiring in the harness, and we don't have to run any additional wire.

once it's not so dang cold up here, i'll make those harness adjustments on my car.

Was wondering about where you’ve been hiding lately ...


and thanks SN for sharing the other info above, glad to see people figuring this stuff out.

you still have the car shell? shoot me a text buddy

So how about the reverse of this; 4-port turbo in a 6-port chassis. Do you think it can be made OBD2 compliant with a Cobb AP and possibly also a piggyback ecu?

CPP switch pigtail
 

extra tidbit: the harness plug for the clutch pedal position switch that one would be looking to get is available as a pigtail designed as ford/motorcraft WPT-721. comes with a fully populated [5 pins, versus the 2 required by the switch] connector, wire for the pigtail, and appropriate heat shrink tubing. plugged in to the connector is the clutch pedal position switch that came with my new mazda clutch pedal.

if you get lucky and are able to get a pigtail snipped off from a manual RX8 [or from another car that makes use of the same switch], more power to you. i decided to get the pigtail.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...1e1ad525fc.jpg

Nobody? I need to figure out how to put a 4-port turbo with 5-spd manual trans in a 6-port chassis and get it OBD2 compliant which I’m sure there will be a number of CEL issues to address.

I really can't see that being an issue . Just use the same ecu and wiring loom . The only cels you should get is the ones for the APV and air pump. Delete those with flash software .

Well if you read this thread it wsn’t actually that simple going from 4-port to 6-port, but I’m thinking the one advantage is that in that direction they’re missing some wiring in the 4-port chassis needed for the 6-port engine. So I should have all the wiring covered. I’m concerned about the pcm though because the 6-port pcm is going to be looking for signals that won’t exist for the 4-port engine. Pretty sure that you can’t just delete them and it won’t likely trigger OBD2 emissiin compliance with those issues unresolved.

It will work no problem . Going the other way (AT to MT) is complicated ...this way isn't. There are certain compliance issues that some strike when fitting a turbo ........ the only extra one you have is the APV cel.
I've seen people fit the air pump under the car to get around that one...... no reason you couldn't have an apv motor spinning around in a housing doing nothing to get around that.
I think the M/E software has another level of deletion that the Cobb doesn't have that could possibly avoid all that but as I've never needed it I can't be sure.

Yeah, I may have to go there if that's the case. I believe on the Cobb certain components have to be plugged in to get past the CEL. Not sure because I never had to do any of that on my previous builds. Leaving the APV motor, etc. plugged in is no problem though. I suppose plumbing the air pump in by using an emission-legal manifold flange to start with (already have one) and using it is a possibility that I need to consider.

Thanks for the advice.


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