so on a note.

as you a person of do....

if you were charging 50 bucks an hour to do this, how much would it cost, note. 50 bucks an hour would never happen, but.

this is not a diy, unless you have a shop. !!!

but good for you.. give us a total when you have it dialed in.

beers :beer:

As I mentioned earlier, I would do this job (no rebuild, just a straight used engine drop in with the swap) for a grand in labor. I don't usually do hourly labor, I quote by the job ahead of time whenever possible. Usually my labor works out between 25 and 50 per hour, but due to the intermittent nature of my work schedule, I don't like to do hourly, I like to do flat rate for a job, plus any materials or extra options/modifications.

Again this would obviously not include any PCM programming etc. which would have to be done at a dealer with a WDS/MDS.

man i so would have paid you to do this if u lived in socal

I guess that's the one nice thing about the tall gearing in the 4AT. Even with the 4.77, at highway speed I'm still at only about 3000 rpm at around 70mph. Of course I find it hard to keep it that slow :)

UPDATE:

I managed to track down the ABS module from the same car that the PCM came from. I switched ONLY the black electrical half of that module, onto the existing ABS unit in my car, leaving all the hydraulic line conections untouched. I was able to do this in the car without removing anything except the harness plugs and engine cover. Once I installed the new electronic control unit onto the ABS module, the ABS and TCS lights went off, and the ABS does function properly in my car now (I stabbed the brakes at 30mph to verify). The DSC button also responds normally now and the TCS light is no longer lit, so I assume those functions work properly as well (since they apparently route through the ABS module).

So as of now I have a 100% functional AT to MT swap with cruise, ABS, TCS/DSC, AC, PS, etc. and no CEL or codes. THe only loose end for me to tie up is the trim ring that holds the shift boot in place to the underside of the console trim, which is on order.

I have updated the original post accordingly to prevent confusion among those who might not read the entire thread.

good job..

damn trim ring!! :)

beers :beer:

Hey, Rotary Resurrection:
Do you think its possible to use the old AT engine with just MT tranny and clutch with some computer tuning with Cobb access device. Because you knoe its quite expensive buying a MT engine.

IT would be possible, but you would most likely always have a hard CEL and codes for the lack of auto transmission inputs to the original AT PCM. IT might be something Jeff can take out of the PCM code list, but the dealer said there was definitely no way he could get rid of it, for what it's worth.

Plus you'd still be down about 30-40hp versus a manual engine...UNLESS you already have the 06+ 6 port automatic.

Okay, If you swap Do you get the extra 40 hp?

The extra HP comes from the intake. if you've got a spare 6 port engine, then yes you'd get the Horsepower too.

IT would be possible to simply put a flywheel-back MT drivetrain behind an existing 04-05 4 port AT engine...in this case you would not generate any more hp, but more hp would make it to the wheels so it would feel like a 15-25hp increase versus the old slushbox.

The 40hp increase would come from a 6 port engine with 6 port intake, and MT PCM programmed for 9000+rpm. In reality, the 4 port and 6 port engines seem to make similar power up to the 7000rpm limit of the 4 port. The additional HP from the 6 port MT comes because it can rev higher and flow more air, and of course the PCM has to be able to control it, so it needs to be swapped too.

So short answer, yes the way I have done the swap, I got the 40hp increase (at the engine) and closer to 60-70 at the wheels (auto's seem to dyno 130 at the wheels and manuals 190-210), so it depends on how you look at it.

This hasn't taken into account the 06+ AT cars that already had the 6 port engine, but had the AT PCM programming and low redline.

RR, you said 06+ AT car makes it easier to do a conversion?. so you just need a transmission, PCM, and clutcth pack?

If you already have the 6 port engine, you can reuse that without swapping it. I am not sure, but it should have the same injectors and sensors as the MT 6p.

You'd still need the MT pcm, engine wiring harness (since the transmission control wires are part of the engine harness), starter, flywheel (a lightweight aftermarket flywheel would be a direct bolt on in this case as well), driveshaft, shift stuff, clutch pedals, clutch hydraulics, clutch kit, etc.

hay RotaryResurrection how are you today. just got a question do you think it possible to put 6port motor in to a 4at ? with out changeing the trans ?

Yes...it would have to be the 06+ AT version of the 6 port though. You could not put a MT version of 6 port in front of an AT, because there would be nowhere to mount the starter.

And you'd also need to find a way to engineer the 6 ports to be open...since the 4 port PCM is not going to be able to operate the additional valves. Even if you get the 6 port PCM with the engine, you probably couldn't use it, because it expects to see a trans with 6 speeds instead of 4, so likely the shifting would be screwed up if you tried that.

I have a question...any of you guys know that the 4speed AT in japan is called type-E and the 6 -speed MT is called type -S, and the 4 port engine not only comes with 4 speed auto but a 5 speed MT
is that possible the swap our 4 speed auto to 5 speed MT so that we dont have to change so many stuff,just change the trannie and the computer??

quote from post above:

You could probably just keep the existing PCM, and you'd have some error lights to deal with. Or you could swap the PCM if you could find the proper one from the MT model.

I wonder...are the 5sp transmissions any stronger or more reliable than the aisin 6 speed units? What are the gear ratios of the 5sp transmission plus rear end final drive ratio?

i dont know the 5speed transmission is any stronger than the 6-speed one or not
but i found the gear ratio
1st 3.483
2nd 2.015
3rd 1.391
4th 1.000
5th 0.806
R?? 3.288
final drive 4.300

sry i got a noobie question, how much did the whole process cost u? and estimate how much would it cost for the shop to do everything?

please read the body of the thread again, this was discussed at least twice already.

wow nice, Congrats

nice ninja edit, I was about to post a fail pic of facepalmpicard.jpg for you, lol.

Hey man, is there any chance that you would come out with a package for sale for the AT to MT swap? I've been looking all over for all the parts and i can't seem to find everything.

multiple and consistent supply of parts cars would be required for such a "kit" and I am not really interested in paying 3-4 grand of my own money up front for a wrecked rx8 from insurance auctions so I can sell MT swap "kits" for what the members here are no doubt willing to pay (2 grand or so max, plus some labor, I'd guess) and then having to try and sell the small parts of the rest of the car off on ebay or elsewhere to make my money back off the car.

hey there can you just you the one oil cooler from the auto or is not possible?and do you need the manual starter?

While it would be *possible* to use the AT fluid cooler as an MT oil cooler, it would require a lot of custom plumbing that most people would find hard to pull off...so it is simpler to just find the factory plumbing and the cooler with it.

As stated in the first post, third item on the list of required parts, the manual starter is necessary. The auto starter is totally and entirely different.

alright i have a 2006 at shinka and i was looking into this and i already have the 6 port so what would i have to do to swich over to a mt?

I give up.

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...rum/picard.jpghttp://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...orum/sisko.gifhttp://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...forum/worf.gif

did you read the first 3 pages?

Long post RR and I forgot who said if it would be cheaper to just buy a used MT RX8. I don't think so because for $2000-$3000, that probably is not a bad price. I was thinking about doing it myself but then reading your post, I officially changed my mind and said "screw that shit"! So have you been on a dyno yet, lol. Gonna go FI, or are you just leaving it as is?

It now has about 1 year and 6k miles of NA driving...compared to other rx8s I've driven it makes standard power for a 6MT. No plans for significant mods to the renesis...however long term I'd like to do a 13brew swap and stop playing games with NA rotaries. :)

lol really interesting thread and omg some ppl ...

Yeah, I cannot believe the guy who asked did not read all that shit:yelrotflm

cost
 

so how much overall did it cost you?

I'm not trying to be mean here, but can we possibly ban bkkkk93 from making further posts in this thread?

very good info. does the car feel oem or do you have any problems as a daily driver.

.....

Great thread you have here.....quick question so all i need is a tranny swap how much did this cost you in the end....:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: cuz four pages is way too much to read ppl are lazy On a serious note overall not a bad amount to spend on a swap wish I could do it on my own

i was tring to swap my engine for a long time to manual, but decided got to be happy with what you got and im just looking for upgrades.

RPM issue
 

on an auto at the speed of 100KM/H the RPM used to be at 2000.
now after change to manual transmission, the RPM is at 3000 for 100KM/H.
Is this normal ? do you hv such issue ?

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/rpm-increase-aft-change-manual-transmission-184455/

Of course the rpm will be different...you now have 6 gears instead of 4, and the ratios are all different.

it's from 6AT to 6MT.

more details of the car here - https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=184455

THE GEAR RATIOS ARE DIFFERENT BETWEEN AUTO AND MANUAL

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ode=RX8&bhcp=1

Gear Ratios (:1)
------6MT 6AT
1st 3.82 3.54
2nd 2.26 2.06
3rd 1.54 1.40
4th 1.18 1.00
5th 1.00 0.71
6th 0.79 0.58

you're very nice to spell it out for him.

also did he change the rear end?

Doesn't matter. The speed and rpm will be different because the ratios IN THE TRANSMISSION are different.

Of course changing the rearend (if his AT has the 4.3 instead of the 4.44) will also change the speed/rpm.

But he is trying to compare the way the car is now, to the way it was before...most of the difference is in the transmission gearing. Just look at the difference in overdrive (6th) gearing. The AT has about 25% more overdrive than the MT so of course the rpm/speed will be a lot different.

thanks for the info.

Wow Kevin- I was wondering what year RX8 you bought. But I had no idea you bought an auto RX8 and converted it. Though I should have assumed you got it dirt cheap. :beer05:

(I had been avoiding this site for some time now because it seemed to just point out more and more possible flaws with my car... but whatever. Voluntary ignorance is not smart. And that's why I just now read this thread.)

Wow- converted it. That's quite an ambitious task on any newer vehicle. Though it sounds like you swapped out everything needed to make the auto a full US 6 speed model. Have you considered auto-crossing it? The ETR SCCA uses the safety test area across from Walters State (other side of 25E) several times during the year. The RX8 is amazingly capable in stock form on a tight auto-x course.

I'm curious- did you consider swapping a 5 speed RX7 transmission onto the four port Renesis? IIRC- Mazda actually sells or sold the RX8 in four port Renesis form in other countries with a 5 speed manual, and they had suprisingly decent real world performance and fuel economy.

FWIW- I think Strange has a complete wrecked RX8 right now. Not sure if it's auto or 6 speed though.

Good luck selling conversion packages. :)

10 grand 2.5 years ago, at the time they were still bringing 13-16 grand all day long.

BTW I have seen you around town in yours. It looks almost as small with you in it as your 1st gen did.

Thats the main reason I bought the car to begin with, to learn to work on the car and learn their tendencies, strong and weak points, etc. to utilize in my business in the future.

It kinda fell in my lap. I would never have gone out and purposely bought one. I liked them okay, they were interesting, but not awesome or anything. After owning, driving, and working on it, I like it a lot, but it's still not all that and a bag of chips IMO.

If you were to look at it right now...inside, under the hood, underneath the car...you would never be able to determine that it used to be an auto. Everything works. In fact I went from automatic touring (I guess?) to basically a manual GT. I added the rear wing, front lip, sideskirts and rear aeros. I changed the interior from base cloth to power/heated leather, and made the seats work like stock.

The only part that was remotely difficult was the electronic programming part...transponder key programming, pcm programming, and the abs/tcs issue. Everything else was easier than swapping an FC or FD (except for the engine swap).


Behind walmart? I have never even went back there...


No, its a totally different 5MT trans. The rx7 trans comes nowhere near mounting up or the shifter lining up properly without major modification.

I am pondering on an REW swap with an FD 5sp trans and probably a small/conservative single (twins are garbage most of the time) for the future. I am not happy with the gearing of this car, nor with the stoutness (or lack thereof) of the transmission. I can make more power and more torque while getting better MPG and having a stronger drivetrain for well under 4 grand, and I should be able to keep almost everything functional except for perhaps cruise control.

Strange is sometimes hard to deal with. They want to sell to insurance and bodyshops more than anything. They want real money for everything they have. They won't let you pull anything yourself or even look at the car most of the time. They just want to look up something in the computer and make you hold 10 minutes while they make up a (high) price, and you either want it (in which case they will pull it one day this coming week) or not.

As indicated earlier in this thread I have no intention of selling packages. I would offer the conversion service if someone provided their own parts.

Appearances can be deceiving. The non sunroof RX8 is actually quite accommodating for a tall driver, for this class of vehicle.

The chassis is a great handling chassis (rivaling cars costing twice and more at this ride/handling balance). But that's the car's strong point. Everything else seems to be a weak point (if you believe everything you read on the internet).

I'm surprised you didn't drop a sbc in there. But that might hurt your image here. :pfanndina

I didn't realize you were that adept with modern engine stuff. Wait- is the FD OBDII or I?

The light at the top entrance to Wally World- stay on College Park Road instead of turning into Wally World. There's a large oval paved area back there used for police driver trainer (check google maps).

And I kicked myself several times in the nuts for not trying SCCA auto-x before this year (I had to dislocate my knee- but it was worth it). Honestly- it's mainly great down to earth car people. Even the PCA (Porsche Club Association) event sponsored (open) auto-x I went to at Pellissippi State was full of (surprisingly) down to earth car people. And I honestly think running your AT to MT swap RX8 at some event (SCCA or other) will eventually return some RX8 business. You are a straight up down to earth guy, and that's refreshing (and very unusual) for somebody in your line of specialty work (at a fair price). And the RX8 is a very popular club sport car, which will probably grow as these get cheaper used.

See what I did there- I just turned a fun time into a work related event. That's called spin... for a justifiable reason for doing this.. for your wife. :nono:

And beyond that- it's just dang fun. Where else can you push a car in corners at 11/10ths legally? As they say- if you don't spin at least once, then you ain't driving hard enough.

Gotcha. I know that sounds like a nubee mistake, but when I first come across a 3+ page thread, I tend to skim. :dunno:

And what about that sbc conversion? :smoker:

j/k.... j/k.