I just came back from track racing my AT 4 port
05-26-2010, 01:23 PM
#51
1) No, it does what radiators are designed to do. The factory temp problems are partially the 208 target temp and the obstructed airflow across the factory core. The Davis/Mazmart radiator is damned near identical to the BHR version, btw, and we both improve upon the factory unit by reducing the fin count.
You've never taken an engineering heat transfer class have you? If the fin count/density were the issue then your radiator would have solved these issues. I will grant you that. But it did not. Neither did any of the things you mentioned above. What helped was adding more surface area and removing restriction from BEHIND the radiator area.
I only bust your ***** on this issue so much beacuse I have put more data, imperical evidance and testing out there about your product than you have. And you still walk around talking like we are dumbasses and should be learning something from you.
Just the way you talked about how stupid the woman with the Supercharged Shinka was back in Tommy garage. I'm tired of it. You guys are not as smart as you think you are. You are not here teaching anyone anything.
As RedDevil alluded to and MDW have requested, I will also, if we have a setup problem than tell us exactly what results we should be seeing and exactly how to get there.
Again, cooling is no dark art, like you try to play off. I've been through an engineering program, taken heat transfer classes and done both laboratory and practical testing beyond the extent that is relevant here. It's all black and white math.
wow, all 4 wires and the off the shelf weather-pack plugs available from any electrical supply catalog on the internet? really?
PS being that the connector ends are what they are, and the wiring needed is what it is, how many ways would you find to connect a different coil than a Mazda OE?
You're doing nothing more than making a situation personal where we just want imformation about the type of testing that was done, the situations we could expect your radiator to work, and how we might attain the results you so adamently say we can expect.
If you can tell us how to make all the promises come true, I'll post a nice big long "thank you, Ray" thread.
05-26-2010, 01:29 PM
#52
I'll snap his neck.
I truly appreciate the offer of a return, and I knew that you would probably take it back even though it was 6 months from the time I purchased it till the time I track tested it, but that reason and for the other reasons stated earlier (lower trans temps and potientially better airflow with some other modifications) I decided not to even though the before/after coolant temps were the same. Plus it is already in there, so it would be a pain to take out 
We did see a 5 degree reduction from one session to the next by changing nothing other than removing the airbox tray.
I'm pretty sure the thermostat and water pump are working fine as in normal driving in average ambient temps, the coolant temps hardly ever get above the low 180s.
The cooling fans are set to come on in the mid 190s.
Can't speak for Red Devil, but as far as the series, dual pass thing goes, I believe he was referring to the secondary radiator we have used with some good results.
In some ways, RD and mac are BHR customers. He and mac have put a lot of time and effort into my car, to the point where I consider it "our car" to a big degree. I just happen to be the owner of record and driver.
We did see a 5 degree reduction from one session to the next by changing nothing other than removing the airbox tray.
I'm pretty sure the thermostat and water pump are working fine as in normal driving in average ambient temps, the coolant temps hardly ever get above the low 180s.
The cooling fans are set to come on in the mid 190s.
Can't speak for Red Devil, but as far as the series, dual pass thing goes, I believe he was referring to the secondary radiator we have used with some good results.
In some ways, RD and mac are BHR customers. He and mac have put a lot of time and effort into my car, to the point where I consider it "our car" to a big degree. I just happen to be the owner of record and driver.
05-26-2010, 01:39 PM
#53
I'll snap his neck.
Just saw mac's post. I agree that I think you are taking their intention the wrong way, Ray. Again, I can't speak for them, but I believe they are essentially customers who are frustrated with the results and looking for ways to improve the performance of the product. They also don't want to see someone else buy the radiator thinking it will improve their on-track coolant temps when it did not do that for us.
05-26-2010, 02:04 PM
#55
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Just saw mac's post. I agree that I think you are taking their intention the wrong way, Ray. Again, I can't speak for them, but I believe they are essentially customers who are frustrated with the results and looking for ways to improve the performance of the product. They also don't want to see someone else buy the radiator thinking it will improve their on-track coolant temps when it did not do that for us.
It wasn't fun for you when you lost a couple hundred of track day money because with the rad the car was overheating. And it wasn't fun for us either, or especially me as I'm the one that recommended to you talk to BHR and look into purchasing it.
If we don't say something, because it's clear no one else will, than how many more purchase this product and go to the track with false hopes? Currently, I wouldn't purchase any aftermarket factory replacement radiator for the RX-8 from any company.
05-26-2010, 03:20 PM
#56
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Hmm. I know MDW you have used ducting to the rad to force the airflow through it. have any pics? Intrested how you did it.
In my case the BHR rad did lower what I would see in a peak temp and also lowered my crusing temps. With a intercooler in front it to boot.
Cruise temps were last summer around 195-198. Peak was 238 before and after was 220.
I know my undertray is allowing a lot of air to flow around the radiator. a gas always looks for the path with the least amnt of resistance.
But could the law of physics not hold true after it passes through the front bumper?
I'm begining to wonder what the tstat housing's total fluid flow allowed really is. maybe its enough for consistant low rpm, but starts to choke at mid - high flow rates. Chokes and starts eddy currents which in turn disrupts the flow. less flow sheds less heat from the coolant.
maybe the mazmart pump overcomes these eddy current issues and cavitates none due to the impeller design.
All this is just a hypothsis. Now just have to dis-prove/prove this.
In my case the BHR rad did lower what I would see in a peak temp and also lowered my crusing temps. With a intercooler in front it to boot.
Cruise temps were last summer around 195-198. Peak was 238 before and after was 220.
I know my undertray is allowing a lot of air to flow around the radiator. a gas always looks for the path with the least amnt of resistance.
But could the law of physics not hold true after it passes through the front bumper?
I'm begining to wonder what the tstat housing's total fluid flow allowed really is. maybe its enough for consistant low rpm, but starts to choke at mid - high flow rates. Chokes and starts eddy currents which in turn disrupts the flow. less flow sheds less heat from the coolant.
maybe the mazmart pump overcomes these eddy current issues and cavitates none due to the impeller design.
All this is just a hypothsis. Now just have to dis-prove/prove this.
05-26-2010, 03:38 PM
#57
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Hmm. I know MDW you have used ducting to the rad to force the airflow through it. have any pics? Intrested how you did it.
In my case the BHR rad did lower what I would see in a peak temp and also lowered my crusing temps. With a intercooler in front it to boot.
Cruise temps were last summer around 195-198. Peak was 238 before and after was 220.
I know my undertray is allowing a lot of air to flow around the radiator. a gas always looks for the path with the least amnt of resistance.
But could the law of physics not hold true after it passes through the front bumper?
I'm begining to wonder what the tstat housing's total fluid flow allowed really is. maybe its enough for consistant low rpm, but starts to choke at mid - high flow rates. Chokes and starts eddy currents which in turn disrupts the flow. less flow sheds less heat from the coolant.
maybe the mazmart pump overcomes these eddy current issues and cavitates none due to the impeller design.
All this is just a hypothsis. Now just have to dis-prove/prove this.
In my case the BHR rad did lower what I would see in a peak temp and also lowered my crusing temps. With a intercooler in front it to boot.
Cruise temps were last summer around 195-198. Peak was 238 before and after was 220.
I know my undertray is allowing a lot of air to flow around the radiator. a gas always looks for the path with the least amnt of resistance.
But could the law of physics not hold true after it passes through the front bumper?
I'm begining to wonder what the tstat housing's total fluid flow allowed really is. maybe its enough for consistant low rpm, but starts to choke at mid - high flow rates. Chokes and starts eddy currents which in turn disrupts the flow. less flow sheds less heat from the coolant.
maybe the mazmart pump overcomes these eddy current issues and cavitates none due to the impeller design.
All this is just a hypothsis. Now just have to dis-prove/prove this.
When you went from 238 to 220, is that at the race track, or hot rodding around the desert, etc...? Also, what were the changes you made, did you incorporate any ducting at all to the radiator, etc...?
Last edited by Red Devil; 05-26-2010 at 03:42 PM.
05-26-2010, 03:45 PM
#58
I'll snap his neck.
09Factor,
I do have the Mazmart pump, and it sounds like you do too, so I'm guessing that's not the difference.
However, ff you are seeing the big drops during cruising, maybe you are onto something with flow restriction issues somewhere in the cooling system at higher rpm. Since we don't have the ambient summer temps that you do, I never had cooling issues anywhere but at the track.
Or maybe my motor is just generating more heat because I'm at higher rpms and WOT more at the track than you are when cruising.
I do have the Mazmart pump, and it sounds like you do too, so I'm guessing that's not the difference.
However, ff you are seeing the big drops during cruising, maybe you are onto something with flow restriction issues somewhere in the cooling system at higher rpm. Since we don't have the ambient summer temps that you do, I never had cooling issues anywhere but at the track.
Or maybe my motor is just generating more heat because I'm at higher rpms and WOT more at the track than you are when cruising.
05-26-2010, 03:48 PM
#59
I'll snap his neck.
09Factor,
Was the rad the only cooling system change you made when you noticed the drops? I'm guessing by the way you stated it that it was, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't another external factor.
PS- you playing any Battlefield on xbox? I'm addicted to that game.
Was the rad the only cooling system change you made when you noticed the drops? I'm guessing by the way you stated it that it was, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't another external factor.
PS- you playing any Battlefield on xbox? I'm addicted to that game.
05-26-2010, 04:05 PM
#60
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Trying to same my pennies for Reach. Going back currently and finishing up the games i do have. Most are ok for my little boy to play co-op with.
Last edited by 09Factor; 05-26-2010 at 04:06 PM. Reason: meh left out "teh"
05-26-2010, 05:02 PM
#61
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
I feel that the plastic undertray begins to sag and the gaps become to large. I'm thinking of making a Aluminum duct that would "enclose" the air path through the intercooler, the Ac condenser, and finally the radiator.
05-27-2010, 08:55 AM
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Thank you very much!
i would say hot rodding around the desert, Stop in go traffic in 115+ plus temps, and up and down 89a. No additional ducting added anywhere. Coolant mix 60 water 40 glycol w/ Purple Ice.
I feel that the plastic undertray begins to sag and the gaps become to large. I'm thinking of making a Aluminum duct that would "enclose" the air path through the intercooler, the Ac condenser, and finally the radiator.
i would say hot rodding around the desert, Stop in go traffic in 115+ plus temps, and up and down 89a. No additional ducting added anywhere. Coolant mix 60 water 40 glycol w/ Purple Ice.
I feel that the plastic undertray begins to sag and the gaps become to large. I'm thinking of making a Aluminum duct that would "enclose" the air path through the intercooler, the Ac condenser, and finally the radiator.
The two individuals that gave us some insight and helped us on MDW's car in this aspect were Cam from Pettit, and Olddragger. Both offered a lot of commentary and advice as we were pulling our hair out in the early stages. I'd have to go back through my notes but Olddragger has done some things to his vehicle - like drilling his thermostat - that we didn't do to MDW's. In that instance, because of the colder Chicago climate we chose against it.
Your comments on the undertray were also some of our concern. When we decided to fab the auxiliary setup we decided to create a separate frame for the rad for two reasons:
1. Concerns regarding putting more stress on the undertray and how it is fastened to the car, especially at higher extended speeds at the track.
2. Sealing any air from leaking under the factory radiator, or for that matter under the auxiliary radiator. To that extent, the frame for the auxiliary rad also serves as a point where we secured the undertray to it in 4 locations. This move hopefully seals most all air to go up and over the auxiliary rad so that it can be drawn through it by the pressure differential between the area in front of the rads and under pressure the car through the undertray cutouts beneath the auxiliary unit.
I was a little concerned that we may see some adverse affects from the front end at the track by guiding air through the auxiliary unit to directly through the undertray, but so far so good.
I don't know if that helps or makes any sense...
05-27-2010, 10:10 AM
#64
All of this and you have no idea how a front counterweight is supposed to be installed. So much for your "classes".
I don't recall saying anything about Pat along those lines. I do recall saying she was a very nice lady and great host to have had me as a guest in her house. I also recall telling the story of sitting up all night talking about all sorts of things. I probably said she was incorrect to follow Pettit blindly, as I say about anyone on this forum including BHR's own "fanbois". I criticize behavior, not personalities.
As we have previously argued, and as my position was supported by one of the world's leading heat-transfer specialsists, the concept of cooling engines in something other than a controlled laboratory is a moving target. If you can't understand that, I still cannot help you.
Think what you will of me, Kyle, as I never cared.
I don't recall saying anything about Pat along those lines. I do recall saying she was a very nice lady and great host to have had me as a guest in her house. I also recall telling the story of sitting up all night talking about all sorts of things. I probably said she was incorrect to follow Pettit blindly, as I say about anyone on this forum including BHR's own "fanbois". I criticize behavior, not personalities.
As we have previously argued, and as my position was supported by one of the world's leading heat-transfer specialsists, the concept of cooling engines in something other than a controlled laboratory is a moving target. If you can't understand that, I still cannot help you.
Think what you will of me, Kyle, as I never cared.
You've never taken an engineering heat transfer class have you?
Just the way you talked about how stupid the woman with the Supercharged Shinka was back in Tommy garage.
I've been through an engineering program, taken heat transfer classes and done both laboratory and practical testing beyond the extent that is relevant here. It's all black and white math.
Again, beyond you talking down at us like we are all stupid and you are all knowing all I have to say is the following:
wow, all 4 wires and the off the shelf weather-pack plugs available from any electrical supply catalog on the internet? really?
PS being that the connector ends are what they are, and the wiring needed is what it is, how many ways would you find to connect a different coil than a Mazda OE?
As the builders of that car we might as well be your customers. Same situation as if Pettit called for one of your radiators for a customer car of his. Again, I don't know who you're fooling but you're not smarter than me.
You're doing nothing more than making a situation personal where we just want imformation about the type of testing that was done, the situations we could expect your radiator to work, and how we might attain the results you so adamently say we can expect.
If you can tell us how to make all the promises come true, I'll post a nice big long "thank you, Ray" thread.
Just the way you talked about how stupid the woman with the Supercharged Shinka was back in Tommy garage.
I've been through an engineering program, taken heat transfer classes and done both laboratory and practical testing beyond the extent that is relevant here. It's all black and white math.
Again, beyond you talking down at us like we are all stupid and you are all knowing all I have to say is the following:
wow, all 4 wires and the off the shelf weather-pack plugs available from any electrical supply catalog on the internet? really?
PS being that the connector ends are what they are, and the wiring needed is what it is, how many ways would you find to connect a different coil than a Mazda OE?
As the builders of that car we might as well be your customers. Same situation as if Pettit called for one of your radiators for a customer car of his. Again, I don't know who you're fooling but you're not smarter than me.
You're doing nothing more than making a situation personal where we just want imformation about the type of testing that was done, the situations we could expect your radiator to work, and how we might attain the results you so adamently say we can expect.
If you can tell us how to make all the promises come true, I'll post a nice big long "thank you, Ray" thread.
05-27-2010, 10:23 AM
#65
Just saw mac's post. I agree that I think you are taking their intention the wrong way, Ray. Again, I can't speak for them, but I believe they are essentially customers who are frustrated with the results and looking for ways to improve the performance of the product. They also don't want to see someone else buy the radiator thinking it will improve their on-track coolant temps when it did not do that for us.
As to the issues with your particular car, all I can say is that I have plenty of these exact cores in use on both the street and the track and they perform as well as can be expected (often with wildly varying results, dependent on the additional mods made to the car), given that the Renesis is difficult to cool and engine cooling is quite a challenge no matter WHO is attempting it.
I have never claimed our radiators to be the panacea cooling mod, just one that is as well-engineered as a bolt-on product can be.
I have also supported all of our customers with 24/7 availability and a money-back guarantee.
Here's a proposal; send the BHR radiator back to me and I will refund 100% of your purchase price as soon as I receive it. Then, you can use that money to have Mac11 and Red Devil design, fabricate, and install a radiator they think is the perfect solution we have all been seeking. Then, they can sell that solution to other owners of RX-8s and then I will discontinue the BHR radiators. Maybe then they can move from one BHR product to the next, run us out of business, and the free-market will have done exactly what is it supposed to do.
Then, I will assume a job more suited to my own intellect and education;' scooping up dogshit in the Phoenix suburbs. People who do that around here make nearly as much money as I did working for Ford in the mid-west so why not......?
05-27-2010, 10:26 AM
#66
Then where would you go for a radiator that works, regardless of the mods needed to properly install it? Maybe, as I said in my previous post, you and Kyle can show us all (BHR, Mazmart, Perrin, PWR, Koyo, et al) how it is done and the rest of us can discontinue offering that particular product.
05-27-2010, 10:33 AM
#68
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Your comments on the undertray were also some of our concern. When we decided to fab the auxiliary setup we decided to create a separate frame for the rad for two reasons:
1. Concerns regarding putting more stress on the undertray and how it is fastened to the car, especially at higher extended speeds at the track.
2. Sealing any air from leaking under the factory radiator, or for that matter under the auxiliary radiator. To that extent, the frame for the auxiliary rad also serves as a point where we secured the undertray to it in 4 locations. This move hopefully seals most all air to go up and over the auxiliary rad so that it can be drawn through it by the pressure differential between the area in front of the rads and under pressure the car through the undertray cutouts beneath the auxiliary unit.
I was a little concerned that we may see some adverse affects from the front end at the track by guiding air through the auxiliary unit to directly through the undertray, but so far so good.
I don't know if that helps or makes any sense...
1. Concerns regarding putting more stress on the undertray and how it is fastened to the car, especially at higher extended speeds at the track.
2. Sealing any air from leaking under the factory radiator, or for that matter under the auxiliary radiator. To that extent, the frame for the auxiliary rad also serves as a point where we secured the undertray to it in 4 locations. This move hopefully seals most all air to go up and over the auxiliary rad so that it can be drawn through it by the pressure differential between the area in front of the rads and under pressure the car through the undertray cutouts beneath the auxiliary unit.
I was a little concerned that we may see some adverse affects from the front end at the track by guiding air through the auxiliary unit to directly through the undertray, but so far so good.
I don't know if that helps or makes any sense...
05-27-2010, 10:43 AM
#69
Reading this out of curiosity, I find it a bit funny how people over look Ray's comment on the thermostat setting the cooling, and yet it's hardly mentioned about using or installing Mazmart's thermostat which offer probably the biggest benefit seeing your radiator isn't doing **** up to 200F.
I'll quote a line used by Mazmart in nycps's thread about the thermostat:
"It doesn't matter how good our water pump is or how good your radiator is if this control mechanism keeps trying to achieve 200 plus degF . If the gatekeeper sees 184 deg it starts going "Whoa, hold up, things are getting to cool around here!" and starts to close the radiator passage while opening the bypass."
Yea...I'm a mechanical engineer with a MS degree who took heat transfer classes also, yet I'm not missing the simplest detail as to why a new radiator alone isn't doing a whole lot different from stock...
I'll quote a line used by Mazmart in nycps's thread about the thermostat:
"It doesn't matter how good our water pump is or how good your radiator is if this control mechanism keeps trying to achieve 200 plus degF . If the gatekeeper sees 184 deg it starts going "Whoa, hold up, things are getting to cool around here!" and starts to close the radiator passage while opening the bypass."
Yea...I'm a mechanical engineer with a MS degree who took heat transfer classes also, yet I'm not missing the simplest detail as to why a new radiator alone isn't doing a whole lot different from stock...
Last edited by Vlaze; 05-27-2010 at 10:45 AM.
05-27-2010, 12:40 PM
#70
I'll snap his neck.
Regarding the thermostat, I believe my stock one is open at 180. The reason I say that is that on the street in mild ambient conditions, my temps always stabilize at 180. But I will freely admit that I am not personally aware of whether it is fully open at that point.
The reason we didn't change out or drill the thermostat opening is because we get such cold weather conditions here in the winter. We were afraid that doing anything like that would make it very hard to get the car up to operating temp when it is in the low single digits or below.
However, I'm wondering if I should have two thermostats - one for the winter and one for the summer (drilled out or something along those lines). I am already planning on changing the coolant twice a year to be able to run a water-heavy mix in the summer, and then a mix that won't freeze in the winter. Shouldn't be a big deal to swap out the thermostat when I'll be doing the coolant anyway.
The reason we didn't change out or drill the thermostat opening is because we get such cold weather conditions here in the winter. We were afraid that doing anything like that would make it very hard to get the car up to operating temp when it is in the low single digits or below.
However, I'm wondering if I should have two thermostats - one for the winter and one for the summer (drilled out or something along those lines). I am already planning on changing the coolant twice a year to be able to run a water-heavy mix in the summer, and then a mix that won't freeze in the winter. Shouldn't be a big deal to swap out the thermostat when I'll be doing the coolant anyway.
05-27-2010, 12:42 PM
#71
I'll snap his neck.
05-27-2010, 12:42 PM
#72
All of this and you have no idea how a front counterweight is supposed to be installed. So much for your "classes".
I don't recall saying anything about Pat along those lines. I do recall saying she was a very nice lady and great host to have had me as a guest in her house. I also recall telling the story of sitting up all night talking about all sorts of things. I probably said she was incorrect to follow Pettit blindly, as I say about anyone on this forum including BHR's own "fanbois". I criticize behavior, not personalities.
As we have previously argued, and as my position was supported by one of the world's leading heat-transfer specialsists, the concept of cooling engines in something other than a controlled laboratory is a moving target. If you can't understand that, I still cannot help you.
Think what you will of me, Kyle, as I never cared.
I don't recall saying anything about Pat along those lines. I do recall saying she was a very nice lady and great host to have had me as a guest in her house. I also recall telling the story of sitting up all night talking about all sorts of things. I probably said she was incorrect to follow Pettit blindly, as I say about anyone on this forum including BHR's own "fanbois". I criticize behavior, not personalities.
As we have previously argued, and as my position was supported by one of the world's leading heat-transfer specialsists, the concept of cooling engines in something other than a controlled laboratory is a moving target. If you can't understand that, I still cannot help you.
Think what you will of me, Kyle, as I never cared.
We have two or three issues running concurrent, Mark, and my priority is helping YOU. The only part of this I take personally is the attack, whether explicit or implicit, on my character and the way I run BHR made by people who do not own your car, do not drive you car, and who may have personal vendettas of their own. Given their hostilities toward me their motives are immediately suspect. I understand these challenges happen and I accept them. But I will not stand by and have an improper illustration of myself, my team, nor my company be presented without responding to it.
As to the issues with your particular car, all I can say is that I have plenty of these exact cores in use on both the street and the track and they perform as well as can be expected (often with wildly varying results, dependent on the additional mods made to the car), given that the Renesis is difficult to cool and engine cooling is quite a challenge no matter WHO is attempting it.
I have never claimed our radiators to be the panacea cooling mod, just one that is as well-engineered as a bolt-on product can be.
I have also supported all of our customers with 24/7 availability and a money-back guarantee.
Here's a proposal; send the BHR radiator back to me and I will refund 100% of your purchase price as soon as I receive it. Then, you can use that money to have Mac11 and Red Devil design, fabricate, and install a radiator they think is the perfect solution we have all been seeking. Then, they can sell that solution to other owners of RX-8s and then I will discontinue the BHR radiators. Maybe then they can move from one BHR product to the next, run us out of business, and the free-market will have done exactly what is it supposed to do.
Then, I will assume a job more suited to my own intellect and education;' scooping up dogshit in the Phoenix suburbs. People who do that around here make nearly as much money as I did working for Ford in the mid-west so why not......?
As to the issues with your particular car, all I can say is that I have plenty of these exact cores in use on both the street and the track and they perform as well as can be expected (often with wildly varying results, dependent on the additional mods made to the car), given that the Renesis is difficult to cool and engine cooling is quite a challenge no matter WHO is attempting it.
I have never claimed our radiators to be the panacea cooling mod, just one that is as well-engineered as a bolt-on product can be.
I have also supported all of our customers with 24/7 availability and a money-back guarantee.
Here's a proposal; send the BHR radiator back to me and I will refund 100% of your purchase price as soon as I receive it. Then, you can use that money to have Mac11 and Red Devil design, fabricate, and install a radiator they think is the perfect solution we have all been seeking. Then, they can sell that solution to other owners of RX-8s and then I will discontinue the BHR radiators. Maybe then they can move from one BHR product to the next, run us out of business, and the free-market will have done exactly what is it supposed to do.
Then, I will assume a job more suited to my own intellect and education;' scooping up dogshit in the Phoenix suburbs. People who do that around here make nearly as much money as I did working for Ford in the mid-west so why not......?
So you're not going to answer the question of how you make that thing of any use? Ok. Thats fair enough but just say it then. No need to waste all our time typing and reading your nonsense and the personal BS you chose to drag into this thread.
I just wanted to not have to worry about one of my customers cars blowing up on the race track and get some answers. Maybe if you had a solution, I would listen to it but you refuse to include any such information. From that I have to conclude you don't have it.
I'll say exactly what Red Devil said. There is not an aftermarket radiator out there I would buy. The radiator not not what is keeping the car from being able to cool itself. Henceforth, we are back to what I origianlly said, and that you have no agred with. Look elsewhere for a cooling solution.
If Mark wants to take you up on your offer, since I am the one that will be doing the work, your radiator will be on your doorstep next week.
Then where would you go for a radiator that works, regardless of the mods needed to properly install it? Maybe, as I said in my previous post, you and Kyle can show us all (BHR, Mazmart, Perrin, PWR, Koyo, et al) how it is done and the rest of us can discontinue offering that particular product.
05-27-2010, 01:37 PM
#73
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Then where would you go for a radiator that works, regardless of the mods needed to properly install it? Maybe, as I said in my previous post, you and Kyle can show us all (BHR, Mazmart, Perrin, PWR, Koyo, et al) how it is done and the rest of us can discontinue offering that particular product.
I would keep the factory unit and do other modifications instead. No one stated anything about teaching anyone about product lines. Quit name dropping and diverting the subject; it's not impressing anyone.
Further, have you actually read this thread? I never mentioned your radiator one way or the other when I was listing what worked for us. I purposely in MY posts avoided the subject because I had little interest in this thread turning into what it now has become.
YOU chose to make it personal by stating we owed anything to you or your associates. What is so difficult regarding not acting so high and mighty and having a conversation? And then you accuse me of having a hidden agenda. Right, my hidden agenda was to recommend someone to give your company money and give your products a try. My hidden agenda was to purposely avoid the issue of your product all together until getting dragged into this crap. You're correct, I'm out to get you - good call. Not everything is about you, not everything is some personal affront against you. Get over yourself.
If you would have come to the table with tangible evidence or support on why it was that your radiator was being misused by us, or for that matter specific hints or ideas on how you optimized your product this would not have gone the way it did. But instead you answer with clear insults and clear attempts to belittle everyone that doesn't agree with you.
Last edited by Red Devil; 05-27-2010 at 01:53 PM.
05-27-2010, 01:50 PM
#74
Regarding the thermostat, I believe my stock one is open at 180. The reason I say that is that on the street in mild ambient conditions, my temps always stabilize at 180. But I will freely admit that I am not personally aware of whether it is fully open at that point.
The reason we didn't change out or drill the thermostat opening is because we get such cold weather conditions here in the winter. We were afraid that doing anything like that would make it very hard to get the car up to operating temp when it is in the low single digits or below.
However, I'm wondering if I should have two thermostats - one for the winter and one for the summer (drilled out or something along those lines). I am already planning on changing the coolant twice a year to be able to run a water-heavy mix in the summer, and then a mix that won't freeze in the winter. Shouldn't be a big deal to swap out the thermostat when I'll be doing the coolant anyway.
The reason we didn't change out or drill the thermostat opening is because we get such cold weather conditions here in the winter. We were afraid that doing anything like that would make it very hard to get the car up to operating temp when it is in the low single digits or below.
However, I'm wondering if I should have two thermostats - one for the winter and one for the summer (drilled out or something along those lines). I am already planning on changing the coolant twice a year to be able to run a water-heavy mix in the summer, and then a mix that won't freeze in the winter. Shouldn't be a big deal to swap out the thermostat when I'll be doing the coolant anyway.
This mod easily reduce my temps by 5°C with a stock radiator. Other cooling mods are just opened oil cooler vents, real fron grille, pretty empty engine bay and mazmart's waterpump so you may want to give it a try!
During winter days i tape everything off in order to let the car warm up properly so you may be able to live with just one thermostat as well!
05-27-2010, 01:57 PM
#75
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Please forgive my intromission but I live in a similar environment (40°c in summer, 0-10°c during winter) and i have to admit that the thermostat was a great restriction in cooling before modifying it.
This mod easily reduce my temps by 5°C with a stock radiator. Other cooling mods are just opened oil cooler vents, real fron grille, pretty empty engine bay and mazmart's waterpump so you may want to give it a try!
During winter days i tape everything off in order to let the car warm up properly so you may be able to live with just one thermostat as well!
This mod easily reduce my temps by 5°C with a stock radiator. Other cooling mods are just opened oil cooler vents, real fron grille, pretty empty engine bay and mazmart's waterpump so you may want to give it a try!
During winter days i tape everything off in order to let the car warm up properly so you may be able to live with just one thermostat as well!
Did you change the thermostat you use, or modify the stock unit? If modified, how?