Fastest RX-8 Auto
12-01-2006, 02:03 PM
#1
Fastest RX-8 Auto
I know this is damn near blasphemy, but in the interest of improving the performance of RX-8 Autos I wanted to discuss this.
I have a 04 RX-8 Auto that I bought used at a very good price. I pretty much love the RX-8, except I want it to go faster in short distances. Thus I bought a Passport GT2 G-Timer to track performance as I upgraded parts. I also have a friend that has an RX-8 Auto, so I put the G-Timer on his for comparison or whenever he upgrades anything to see how it performs.
My understanding is that "book" performance for an RX-8 Auto is suppose to be around 9.0 to 9.5 seconds in 0-60. Ah... that's not good and Mazda techs and executive should be publicly whipped for pulling this. Nevertheless, I like the Auto for many reasons like traffic, eating in the car, playing with the girlfriend, watching DVD videos, etc... (I know manual lovers hate to hear/read such things, but such is life). Anyway, I've been on a mission to get my times into 5 to 6 second territory.
Of course, any hope of doing this WILL need FI, but NA performance limits intrigue me as well.
Things done so far:
1. ECU Flash
This made a big difference.
2. ATF cooler and changed AT fluid (Redline).
3. 2nd Oil cooler
4. RB RAM duct on stock box. I know it seems weird, but I wanted to see the effect of the RAM duct by itself.
I also did maintenance related stuff like change oil, oil filter, coolant, etc...
My very best 0-60 times are now around 7.5 seconds but often between 7.5 to 8.0 seconds. Before any RX-8 manual people get high and mighty on me, I tested a friend's RX-8 manual with the G-Timer and he and I was doing high 6s (including floating into low 7s) and could NOT get far into the low 6s or near that 5.8 "book time".
At this point I'm stuck, because the new RX-8 superchargers like Axial Flow, Pettit (though close), and Hymee are not ready. In the mean time my mind has been wondering on trying something weird.
I was thinking about giving the e-RAM electric supercharger a shot with a 12 volt charger series Unorthodox Pulley (Ultra SSc). If it does NOT work than I will get a "REAL supercharger" and I can get most of my money back (don't ask me how, cause I will not tell you... hehehehehe...). The reason why the combo intrigued me is the possibility to get around 35 HP for CHEAP and the e-RAM people swear their sh*t works (but I'm still in the process of sending e-mails to them and waiting for responses to decide and checking if it would work on an RX-8). Anyway, I calculated that around 35 HP would get me down around another second, thus high 6s.
If I get a "real supercharger" I basically want at least 75 HP gain from it (but 90 HP would make my d*ck hard), but that will cost at least $5,000 dollars ( and more like $7,500 dollars or higher). The e-RAM and Unorthodox Pulley would be around $900 dollars.
Anyway, I'm rolling at 7.5 seconds and have read on some threads of RX-8 Autos that may have time in the low 7s. Basically, I want to know what those guys are doing, especially if they are NA RX-Autos. I would expect a FI RX-8 Auto to hit low 6s and with the right PSI, tune, and HP to the wheels to hit 5s.
Anyway, feel free to comment.
I have a 04 RX-8 Auto that I bought used at a very good price. I pretty much love the RX-8, except I want it to go faster in short distances. Thus I bought a Passport GT2 G-Timer to track performance as I upgraded parts. I also have a friend that has an RX-8 Auto, so I put the G-Timer on his for comparison or whenever he upgrades anything to see how it performs.
My understanding is that "book" performance for an RX-8 Auto is suppose to be around 9.0 to 9.5 seconds in 0-60. Ah... that's not good and Mazda techs and executive should be publicly whipped for pulling this. Nevertheless, I like the Auto for many reasons like traffic, eating in the car, playing with the girlfriend, watching DVD videos, etc... (I know manual lovers hate to hear/read such things, but such is life). Anyway, I've been on a mission to get my times into 5 to 6 second territory.
Of course, any hope of doing this WILL need FI, but NA performance limits intrigue me as well.
Things done so far:
1. ECU Flash
This made a big difference.
2. ATF cooler and changed AT fluid (Redline).
3. 2nd Oil cooler
4. RB RAM duct on stock box. I know it seems weird, but I wanted to see the effect of the RAM duct by itself.
I also did maintenance related stuff like change oil, oil filter, coolant, etc...
My very best 0-60 times are now around 7.5 seconds but often between 7.5 to 8.0 seconds. Before any RX-8 manual people get high and mighty on me, I tested a friend's RX-8 manual with the G-Timer and he and I was doing high 6s (including floating into low 7s) and could NOT get far into the low 6s or near that 5.8 "book time".
At this point I'm stuck, because the new RX-8 superchargers like Axial Flow, Pettit (though close), and Hymee are not ready. In the mean time my mind has been wondering on trying something weird.
I was thinking about giving the e-RAM electric supercharger a shot with a 12 volt charger series Unorthodox Pulley (Ultra SSc). If it does NOT work than I will get a "REAL supercharger" and I can get most of my money back (don't ask me how, cause I will not tell you... hehehehehe...). The reason why the combo intrigued me is the possibility to get around 35 HP for CHEAP and the e-RAM people swear their sh*t works (but I'm still in the process of sending e-mails to them and waiting for responses to decide and checking if it would work on an RX-8). Anyway, I calculated that around 35 HP would get me down around another second, thus high 6s.
If I get a "real supercharger" I basically want at least 75 HP gain from it (but 90 HP would make my d*ck hard), but that will cost at least $5,000 dollars ( and more like $7,500 dollars or higher). The e-RAM and Unorthodox Pulley would be around $900 dollars.
Anyway, I'm rolling at 7.5 seconds and have read on some threads of RX-8 Autos that may have time in the low 7s. Basically, I want to know what those guys are doing, especially if they are NA RX-Autos. I would expect a FI RX-8 Auto to hit low 6s and with the right PSI, tune, and HP to the wheels to hit 5s.
Anyway, feel free to comment.
Last edited by sosonic; 12-01-2006 at 02:12 PM.
12-01-2006, 03:27 PM
#4
did you do any runs before the mods ? what times did you get stock ?
You must compare against your own car not the "book values ".
Also - with the manual - driver skill comes more into play than the auto . 7s is pretty slow for any stock manual .
with the e ram - try it . We'll all laugh it is no good but if it does anything you can have a good laugh at us
You must compare against your own car not the "book values ".
Also - with the manual - driver skill comes more into play than the auto . 7s is pretty slow for any stock manual .
with the e ram - try it . We'll all laugh it is no good but if it does anything you can have a good laugh at us
12-01-2006, 06:24 PM
#7
if your really lookin to step it up find a good company to get a customized torque converter.
read this thread i made before kinda interesting:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-specific-performance-mods-97/pros-cons-customized-torque-converter-100956/
read this thread i made before kinda interesting:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-specific-performance-mods-97/pros-cons-customized-torque-converter-100956/
12-02-2006, 12:21 AM
#9
I usually brake launch. The problem is that you can not brake launch faster than 2,500 RPM. This is because of the torque converter on the auto.
The customized torque converter is a solution, but its a LAST STEP. You need to make your OTHER modifications FIRST, including going FI (supercharger/turbo) if thats what you want, BEFORE you customize your torque converter (based on my understanding of the issue). Also, the customized torque converter is a plus versus minus thing. It will raise your brake launch limit, but we are not talking about 6,000 RPM. Its more like you go for 3,500 RPM launches. But that 1,000 RPM raise is going to cost you serious cash. You also have to weigh this against just doing a neutral slam at 3,500 RPM, which is another plus vs minus with your auto transmission. This is why an instant boost supercharger makes so much sense for an RX-8 Auto, and again that will cost some cash too.
Neutral slams present another issue too. You will get better performance by using the MANUAL MODE (not manual transmission... its like a clutchless shifter) on the RX-8 Auto. Especially if you remove your rev limit (ECU flash). A Neutral slam is done in Automatic mode. Staying in automatic mode will give you less control and often less performance than switching to manual mode. You could do a combination of a neutral slam and then switching to manual mode for your gear shift from 1st to 2nd gear, but this is tricky and requires practice and technique. Try it sometime, but you will need to remove your rev-limit (ECU flash) and make sure you get an ATF cooler and change your AT fluid.
The Agency Pulley is a VERY GOOD CHEAP MOD (since it will help your RX-8
Auto engine REV UP FASTER), BUT its underdriven. If I play with the e-RAM electric supercharger than I can't use an underdriven pulley. Thus the Unorthodox Pulley Ultra SSc, because it will not underdrive. Also, the underdriven Agency Pulley is an issue if you go supercharger, because it will have a negative effect on "real" superchargers like RP's Axial Flow, Pettit, Hymee, etc... For NA RX-8's the Agency Pulley is a good mod thoug.
High RPM neutral slams will destroy your auto transmission. You may get away with up to 4,000 RPM launches, for a little, but the damage will accumulate. Its far better to put in a lighter Pulley and/or go supercharger than doing neutral slams. I like my RX-8 and want to keep it around for a while and I'm not fond of buying a new auto transmissioin every 6 months.
I will defintely upgrade the exhaust. The whole exhaust thing is a bit annoying, as choosing the right one and weeding through the claims is annoying. I still want to keep my CAT though and keep it street legal. So this means I'm limited to about a 10 to 15 HP gain for somewhere between $500 to $1,000 dollars.
My immediate goal is to get in the 6s with my RX-8 as oppose to have the fastest drag car around. But to get 1 second faster, we are looking at 30 to 40 more HP. Of course, having the fastest RX-8 Auto around intriques me a bit. For the Auto, low 5s, are not going to happen without neutral slams or custom torque converters and of course FI providing high HP (that will be in the form of instant boost supercharger). That HP will come at the cost of $5,000 to $10,000 dollars.
Even with the RX-8 MT, getting low 5s ( 0-60 )appears to require some massive HP boost. Which is weird since a RX-8 MT (with its correct HP of around 235 HP) should be able to pull 5.8 to 6.0 with a massive clutch dump. I question what turbo is doing for some these guys because I've yet to see people post low 5 times or 4s from any of the turbo kits. Feel free to correct me. If any kit should be able to do it, it should be Mazsports or PTPs turbo kits. Yet, I have not seen them put out the numbers. Though 1/4 mile times should defintely improve. You would think that putting down 350 RWHP would get you there (low 5s and high 4s) on RX-8 MT, but there appears to be limiting factors. Turbo lag? Tire grip? Instant boost of a high psi supercharger should help, but that kit is not out yet and I have not seen the numbers to prove it.
Anyway, I'm of course looking at HP gains that are cost effective. What gives the most HP gains for the price??? Also, I want to see PROOF. Not for somebody to tell me that something will equal X horsepower, but better 0-60 or 1/4 times. That is my question and what I'm looking at. The RX-8 is a great car. A bit faster and the RX-8 would be damn close to perfect in my book.
I'm NOT interested in an RX-8 manual, but I would like to see what can be done with RX-8 Auto. I think its a fun challenge. An RX-8 Auto running in the 6s or 5s is just way cool in my book. But then the question is who has an RX-8 Auto that is that fast and HOW did they get there? Also what MODS are giveing what type of performance? That's why I like the G-Timer. We all can't get to a Dyno, but buying a G-Timer, doing some runs, and exchanging the information is very possible
The customized torque converter is a solution, but its a LAST STEP. You need to make your OTHER modifications FIRST, including going FI (supercharger/turbo) if thats what you want, BEFORE you customize your torque converter (based on my understanding of the issue). Also, the customized torque converter is a plus versus minus thing. It will raise your brake launch limit, but we are not talking about 6,000 RPM. Its more like you go for 3,500 RPM launches. But that 1,000 RPM raise is going to cost you serious cash. You also have to weigh this against just doing a neutral slam at 3,500 RPM, which is another plus vs minus with your auto transmission. This is why an instant boost supercharger makes so much sense for an RX-8 Auto, and again that will cost some cash too.
Neutral slams present another issue too. You will get better performance by using the MANUAL MODE (not manual transmission... its like a clutchless shifter) on the RX-8 Auto. Especially if you remove your rev limit (ECU flash). A Neutral slam is done in Automatic mode. Staying in automatic mode will give you less control and often less performance than switching to manual mode. You could do a combination of a neutral slam and then switching to manual mode for your gear shift from 1st to 2nd gear, but this is tricky and requires practice and technique. Try it sometime, but you will need to remove your rev-limit (ECU flash) and make sure you get an ATF cooler and change your AT fluid.
The Agency Pulley is a VERY GOOD CHEAP MOD (since it will help your RX-8
Auto engine REV UP FASTER), BUT its underdriven. If I play with the e-RAM electric supercharger than I can't use an underdriven pulley. Thus the Unorthodox Pulley Ultra SSc, because it will not underdrive. Also, the underdriven Agency Pulley is an issue if you go supercharger, because it will have a negative effect on "real" superchargers like RP's Axial Flow, Pettit, Hymee, etc... For NA RX-8's the Agency Pulley is a good mod thoug.
High RPM neutral slams will destroy your auto transmission. You may get away with up to 4,000 RPM launches, for a little, but the damage will accumulate. Its far better to put in a lighter Pulley and/or go supercharger than doing neutral slams. I like my RX-8 and want to keep it around for a while and I'm not fond of buying a new auto transmissioin every 6 months.
I will defintely upgrade the exhaust. The whole exhaust thing is a bit annoying, as choosing the right one and weeding through the claims is annoying. I still want to keep my CAT though and keep it street legal. So this means I'm limited to about a 10 to 15 HP gain for somewhere between $500 to $1,000 dollars.
My immediate goal is to get in the 6s with my RX-8 as oppose to have the fastest drag car around. But to get 1 second faster, we are looking at 30 to 40 more HP. Of course, having the fastest RX-8 Auto around intriques me a bit. For the Auto, low 5s, are not going to happen without neutral slams or custom torque converters and of course FI providing high HP (that will be in the form of instant boost supercharger). That HP will come at the cost of $5,000 to $10,000 dollars.
Even with the RX-8 MT, getting low 5s ( 0-60 )appears to require some massive HP boost. Which is weird since a RX-8 MT (with its correct HP of around 235 HP) should be able to pull 5.8 to 6.0 with a massive clutch dump. I question what turbo is doing for some these guys because I've yet to see people post low 5 times or 4s from any of the turbo kits. Feel free to correct me. If any kit should be able to do it, it should be Mazsports or PTPs turbo kits. Yet, I have not seen them put out the numbers. Though 1/4 mile times should defintely improve. You would think that putting down 350 RWHP would get you there (low 5s and high 4s) on RX-8 MT, but there appears to be limiting factors. Turbo lag? Tire grip? Instant boost of a high psi supercharger should help, but that kit is not out yet and I have not seen the numbers to prove it.
Anyway, I'm of course looking at HP gains that are cost effective. What gives the most HP gains for the price??? Also, I want to see PROOF. Not for somebody to tell me that something will equal X horsepower, but better 0-60 or 1/4 times. That is my question and what I'm looking at. The RX-8 is a great car. A bit faster and the RX-8 would be damn close to perfect in my book.
I'm NOT interested in an RX-8 manual, but I would like to see what can be done with RX-8 Auto. I think its a fun challenge. An RX-8 Auto running in the 6s or 5s is just way cool in my book. But then the question is who has an RX-8 Auto that is that fast and HOW did they get there? Also what MODS are giveing what type of performance? That's why I like the G-Timer. We all can't get to a Dyno, but buying a G-Timer, doing some runs, and exchanging the information is very possible
Last edited by sosonic; 12-02-2006 at 01:56 AM.
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