Why is forced induction always mechanical?
08-16-2010, 02:40 PM
#76
08-16-2010, 02:44 PM
#77
In other words, bench-racing is one thing but actual progress is another.
08-16-2010, 02:44 PM
#78
I divide by zero
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08-16-2010, 04:54 PM
#81
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thank you charles for getting this on the path i was hoping it would find.
ok this paxton blower http://www.wireworld.com/paxton/at800.htm
AT 800 flows up to 800cfm at a Max pressure of 106". Thats with the 15hp model. We can use the 7.5 HP motor for 400 cfm.
ok this paxton blower http://www.wireworld.com/paxton/at800.htm
AT 800 flows up to 800cfm at a Max pressure of 106". Thats with the 15hp model. We can use the 7.5 HP motor for 400 cfm.
08-16-2010, 06:19 PM
#82
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Papst do some industrial blower units for skyscraper ventilation that are 24v so viable if you use a seperate commercial alternator and battery to power it.
I've done that before on a small engine over here for research use (1.4, 75hp jobbie), and to even get a few PSI out of that I ended up adding 60 kg of weight to the car and using wires as thick as your thumb.
Waste of time until cars switch over to at least 48v or so.
I've done that before on a small engine over here for research use (1.4, 75hp jobbie), and to even get a few PSI out of that I ended up adding 60 kg of weight to the car and using wires as thick as your thumb.
Waste of time until cars switch over to at least 48v or so.
08-16-2010, 06:54 PM
#83
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Ok, here is what gets me:
problem: wouldnt move enough air
How much does a super or a turbo leech off the engine? 10hp? 15 hp?
Why wouldnt an electric motor do the job just as well as a belt from the engine or a turbine in the exhust? Electric motors have mad torque, I have a hard time believing that they couldnt deal with the pressure load on the compressor.
problem: battery would flatline
A pretty powerful gokart can zip around the track for 15 min on a battery thats not that much bigger, so why would this 10hp (assuming the above to be true) motor drain a car battery in a matter of seconds?
There are some practical issues (wiring, space for the motor), but these don't seem big enough to stop it from working.
problem: wouldnt move enough air
How much does a super or a turbo leech off the engine? 10hp? 15 hp?
Why wouldnt an electric motor do the job just as well as a belt from the engine or a turbine in the exhust? Electric motors have mad torque, I have a hard time believing that they couldnt deal with the pressure load on the compressor.
problem: battery would flatline
A pretty powerful gokart can zip around the track for 15 min on a battery thats not that much bigger, so why would this 10hp (assuming the above to be true) motor drain a car battery in a matter of seconds?
There are some practical issues (wiring, space for the motor), but these don't seem big enough to stop it from working.
08-16-2010, 06:58 PM
#84
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ if it were easily done, economical, and provided any benefit over a normal turbo or supercharger or even equal benefit...it'd be on lot's of cars the world around....but there aren't any...plain and simple.
People dreaming something should work doesn't make it so ... just saying.
People dreaming something should work doesn't make it so ... just saying.
08-16-2010, 07:16 PM
#85
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papst do some industrial blower units for skyscraper ventilation that are 24v so viable if you use a seperate commercial alternator and battery to power it.
I've done that before on a small engine over here for research use (1.4, 75hp jobbie), and to even get a few psi out of that i ended up adding 60 kg of weight to the car and using wires as thick as your thumb.
Waste of time until cars switch over to at least 48v or so.
I've done that before on a small engine over here for research use (1.4, 75hp jobbie), and to even get a few psi out of that i ended up adding 60 kg of weight to the car and using wires as thick as your thumb.
Waste of time until cars switch over to at least 48v or so.
08-16-2010, 07:39 PM
#86
Asshole for hire
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How much airflow do we want said electric supercharger to flow? I think 300-330 gms./sec. would be a good target. Whomever agrees with that target and wants to be involved in new product development, please find an electric blower motor unit with those flow ratings and list the physical dimensions and electrical specifications for the units you find.
Once we have that, the rest will be easy.
Once we have that, the rest will be easy.
08-16-2010, 09:10 PM
#88
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high-temperature superconductors would probably help though :p
then again, you were probably joking and i look like an idiot. but thats ok, i already do :p
08-16-2010, 10:54 PM
#90
How much does a super or a turbo leech off the engine? 10hp? 15 hp?
Why wouldnt an electric motor do the job just as well as a belt from the engine or a turbine in the exhust? Electric motors have mad torque, I have a hard time believing that they couldnt deal with the pressure load on the compressor.
Why wouldnt an electric motor do the job just as well as a belt from the engine or a turbine in the exhust? Electric motors have mad torque, I have a hard time believing that they couldnt deal with the pressure load on the compressor.
08-16-2010, 10:56 PM
#91
I meant that the rest of the PROCESS would be easy. As in, for the point to make itself evident.
08-16-2010, 10:57 PM
#92
08-17-2010, 12:34 AM
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Long story short, guys... non-mechanical forced induction compared to mechanical forced induction is like the rotary engine in the 1950's compared to a piston engine. The research and development hasn't taken off and at the point in time it's simply not feasible to use non-mechanical forced induction given the amount of progress that has gone into them.
Realistically, we should be focusing on making mechanical forced induction work BETTER, not look at a different form of forced induction. We still have a lot of energy to extract from mechanical forced induction and it still has room to grow.
Realistically, we should be focusing on making mechanical forced induction work BETTER, not look at a different form of forced induction. We still have a lot of energy to extract from mechanical forced induction and it still has room to grow.
08-17-2010, 11:25 AM
#98
This system proposed has already sorta been adapted to the new Porsche 918 hybrid concept car.
Porsche has a "Push to Pass" button that unleashes an EXTRA 150 kW (201 hp, more then our car's total hp N/A
) through the electrical motor
However this will only work when the motor has recuperated enough energy from the regenerative braking fitted to both axles.
So it is more of a "Self Filled Nitrous System"
Take note this is on a super car, would systems like this really be affordable on average cars? most likely not, think about the battery side of things, the cost of a regenerative braking system, the ecu modifications required.
Also with the next "generation" of cars becoming rapidly hybrids, i believe all progression in terms of electrical powers would be most likely be focused on more HP from the electrical motor OR more efficient driving
Just my 2c
Porsche has a "Push to Pass" button that unleashes an EXTRA 150 kW (201 hp, more then our car's total hp N/A
) through the electrical motorHowever this will only work when the motor has recuperated enough energy from the regenerative braking fitted to both axles.
So it is more of a "Self Filled Nitrous System"
Take note this is on a super car, would systems like this really be affordable on average cars? most likely not, think about the battery side of things, the cost of a regenerative braking system, the ecu modifications required.
Also with the next "generation" of cars becoming rapidly hybrids, i believe all progression in terms of electrical powers would be most likely be focused on more HP from the electrical motor OR more efficient driving
Just my 2c
08-17-2010, 11:39 AM
#99
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I don't think the power comes from the brakes, I believe that porsche gt3 uses a large flywheel in a "super" fluid. The flywheel's larger masses and low friction maintain a large inertia.
08-17-2010, 01:48 PM
#100
> Piston Man
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Porsche has a "Push to Pass" button that unleashes an EXTRA 150 kW (201 hp, more then our car's total hp N/A ) through the electrical motor
However this will only work when the motor has recuperated enough energy from the regenerative braking fitted to both axles.
So it is more of a "Self Filled Nitrous System"
) through the electrical motorHowever this will only work when the motor has recuperated enough energy from the regenerative braking fitted to both axles.
So it is more of a "Self Filled Nitrous System"
I want it on a big, glowing, pulsating red button under a mollyguard on the middle of the dash, ringed by yellow and black hazard striping that says "DO NOT PUSH."