Why is forced induction always mechanical?
08-16-2010, 07:39 AM
#51
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(from howstuff works)
A gallon of gasoline contains about 132x106 joules of energy, which is equivalent to 125,000 BTU or 36,650 watt-hours, so...
•If you took a 1,500-watt space heater and left it on full blast for a full 24-hour day, that's about how much heat (electrical energy) is in a gallon of gas.
....
Think how much battery mass to even get a fraction of that power stored! That's the problem with battery energy - it's impossible yet to store enough to do much useful for any length of time. What is needed is superior storage technology that doesn't yet exist.
A gallon of gasoline contains about 132x106 joules of energy, which is equivalent to 125,000 BTU or 36,650 watt-hours, so...
•If you took a 1,500-watt space heater and left it on full blast for a full 24-hour day, that's about how much heat (electrical energy) is in a gallon of gas.
....
Think how much battery mass to even get a fraction of that power stored! That's the problem with battery energy - it's impossible yet to store enough to do much useful for any length of time. What is needed is superior storage technology that doesn't yet exist.
08-16-2010, 07:48 AM
#52
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BUT hey, its a good enough example to make ppl think, and hopefully enough to stop the herds, i mean masses, from starting another 47 threads like this about any potential REAL use of elec. SCs
08-16-2010, 10:04 AM
#54
Thomas Knight is a complete shyster and a crook.
His fab skills are questionable at best and his systems and designs are complete ****.
I wouldn't buy a used hot-air popcorn popper from him and that is, essentially, all his stuff can do.
As to the OP's question, it is simple: Energy is neither created or destroyed.
If you want another 150 hp out of the motor, you have to put it into the motor in another form first.
150 HP of electricity is nothing to be trifled with.
08-16-2010, 10:38 AM
#56
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Thomas Knight is a complete shyster and a crook.
His fab skills are questionable at best and his systems and designs are complete ****.
I wouldn't buy a used hot-air popcorn popper from him and that is, essentially, all his stuff can do.
As to the OP's question, it is simple: Energy is neither created or destroyed.
If you want another 150 hp out of the motor, you have to put it into the motor in another form first.
150 HP of electricity is nothing to be trifled with.
Thomas Knight is a complete shyster and a crook.
His fab skills are questionable at best and his systems and designs are complete ****.
I wouldn't buy a used hot-air popcorn popper from him and that is, essentially, all his stuff can do.
As to the OP's question, it is simple: Energy is neither created or destroyed.
If you want another 150 hp out of the motor, you have to put it into the motor in another form first.
150 HP of electricity is nothing to be trifled with.
08-16-2010, 10:50 AM
#58
How much airflow do we want said electric supercharger to flow? I think 300-330 gms./sec. would be a good target. Whomever agrees with that target and wants to be involved in new product development, please find an electric blower motor unit with those flow ratings and list the physical dimensions and electrical specifications for the units you find.
Once we have that, the rest will be easy.
Once we have that, the rest will be easy.
08-16-2010, 10:54 AM
#59
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08-16-2010, 11:02 AM
#60
You are hereby dismissed.
NEXT!
08-16-2010, 11:07 AM
#63
08-16-2010, 11:10 AM
#64
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the BROAN RM325H is a 600CFM unit which is 362g/s
all your specs are here in datasheet: go to town
http://www.broan.com/ImageLibrary/br...s/99043135.pdf
all your specs are here in datasheet: go to town
http://www.broan.com/ImageLibrary/br...s/99043135.pdf
08-16-2010, 11:12 AM
#65
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i did check a couple pieces of the math against ideal gas law, its all right
i know where your going(or at least will reach) the problem isnt a fan that will flow that much air, or powering it. the problem is a fan and powering it that will flow tht much air under load(pressure differential)
Last edited by paulmasoner; 08-16-2010 at 11:14 AM.
08-16-2010, 11:14 AM
#66
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heres one 500cfm
size is 10 1/2" X 3 1/2"
needs 230vac at 0.4 amps(thats ALOT of juice)
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&item=16-958-A
One thing though. Even if it can move 500cfm...That doesnt mean it can move that when pressurized right? Once you apply resistance it wouldnt build much boost would it?
-Edit ^ I see Paul and I are on the same train of thought :P
Take that fan, duct it down to 3" pipe and see if you can get a reading with a boost guage...even with the end capped. Then try to get a reading with an engine sucking all the air out of the end.
I think best case..if it can flow 330g/sec is simply wouldnt be a restriction to the intake. but its not going to force that much air into the engine.
size is 10 1/2" X 3 1/2"
needs 230vac at 0.4 amps(thats ALOT of juice)
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&item=16-958-A
One thing though. Even if it can move 500cfm...That doesnt mean it can move that when pressurized right? Once you apply resistance it wouldnt build much boost would it?
-Edit ^ I see Paul and I are on the same train of thought :P
Take that fan, duct it down to 3" pipe and see if you can get a reading with a boost guage...even with the end capped. Then try to get a reading with an engine sucking all the air out of the end.
I think best case..if it can flow 330g/sec is simply wouldnt be a restriction to the intake. but its not going to force that much air into the engine.
Last edited by Mawnee; 08-16-2010 at 11:36 AM.
08-16-2010, 11:41 AM
#67
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and the fact that it is actually no direct comparison to anything useful lol
BUT hey, its a good enough example to make ppl think, and hopefully enough to stop the herds, i mean masses, from starting another 47 threads like this about any potential REAL use of elec. SCs
BUT hey, its a good enough example to make ppl think, and hopefully enough to stop the herds, i mean masses, from starting another 47 threads like this about any potential REAL use of elec. SCs
08-16-2010, 12:21 PM
#68
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For their size and weight turbines are better that just about anything in converting the kinetic energy of a moving fluid to and from another form of energy. There is a reason why machines that require REALLY HIGH power to weight ie. helicopters and fighter planes have been using them nearly exclusively for quite some time now.
08-16-2010, 12:29 PM
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look at page 2 charts of the datasheet i linked for the blower... For their size and weight turbines are better that just about anything in converting the kinetic energy of a moving fluid to and from another form of energy. There is a reason why machines that require REALLY HIGH power to weight ie. helicopters and fighter planes have been using them nearly exclusively for quite some time now.
turbines are great in the right application. but powering them is the topic here.
08-16-2010, 01:58 PM
#71
I am not advocating for any particular position with regard to the viability/efficacy of an electrically-based F/I system. What I am doing is demonstrating the process by which I lead the BHR team in developing our product line. The first thing we do is set targets/goals, examine the available hardware and specs, and go from there.
In esoteric cases such as these, I also have those making the pitch(es) discuss the specs they find rather than simply send me the files to open as I do not typically have the time. (Although I will read the files in this case, only.)
Since this is developing into the "design by committee" that I had hoped it would (which also almost always fail), I would like PaulMasoner and Mawnee to discuss the specs they have discovered rather than have each of us open files and examine them, and exaplin why each motor they have presented would be the best for this particular application.
Boil down the specs and tell the rest of us why you bothered to even mention those blower motors, please.
By the time we are done wrangling with this matter all of you will come away with a completely different view of everything about this industry.
In esoteric cases such as these, I also have those making the pitch(es) discuss the specs they find rather than simply send me the files to open as I do not typically have the time. (Although I will read the files in this case, only.)
Since this is developing into the "design by committee" that I had hoped it would (which also almost always fail), I would like PaulMasoner and Mawnee to discuss the specs they have discovered rather than have each of us open files and examine them, and exaplin why each motor they have presented would be the best for this particular application.
Boil down the specs and tell the rest of us why you bothered to even mention those blower motors, please.
By the time we are done wrangling with this matter all of you will come away with a completely different view of everything about this industry.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-16-2010 at 02:02 PM.
08-16-2010, 02:02 PM
#72
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Lets deal with the 2 halves of the turbo as seperate machines. The compressor side can be the same regardless of what is driving it; an electric motor or the exhaust turbine. For a given amount of power needed by the compressor to compress x lbs/min to y psi, the exhaust turbine will be able to deliver that in a MUCH smaller, lighter and simpler package than an electric motor, controller and battery.
That is all.
08-16-2010, 02:10 PM
#73
Please, let's not as that will veer the thread off-topic and we will end up arguing over things that have been well-argued for the past 6 years.
The OP wanted to know why there are not electrically-driven F/I systems and we shall examine the issue to the extent that those contributing to this thread are willing.
The OP wanted to know why there are not electrically-driven F/I systems and we shall examine the issue to the extent that those contributing to this thread are willing.
08-16-2010, 02:18 PM
#74
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The fact is that it wouldnt work AT ALL. Its not designed to force air and combat reversion. as soon as the "500cfm" coming out of that fan met resistance the air would simply escape back through the blades.