skuggan

Hi

I want to know which turbo kit and which parts in the engine that needs to be changed in order to drive the rx-8 with a steady boost of 350bhp and still be able to use it as a every day car.

I know this isnt a easy question to answer but looking forward to every suggestions.

best regards



Andreas Pacholik



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Unmodified 206 RC
400Bhp Nissan 200SX -13 European version

SAFD1450

Well I cant give you a list of exactly what you need however I can tell you to talk to Albert at SSR engineering http://www.ssr-engineering.com/ He seems to have some knowledg on the matter and would be very willing to help. Im sure more members here will post because there are a lot of members here with a great amount of information to share.

skuggan

Hi SAFD1450

yes I thought so too
I dont own a RX-8 as of yet, but Im thinking about trading one for my Nissan.
And since I live in Sweden I need to check all the info out before ordering the car and stuff, getting all the facts laid down.
But SSR:s kit sounded nice if u would fix the fuel problem and use a turbo with ceramic or BB.
What sizes of turbos are we talking about in the RX-8? since the turbo prices seems so high, are they special made just for this care in order to fit and special requirements just for the wankel engine or what?
I have a Garret GT30 in my 200sx and some of the prices of the turbos are really terrible. I paid 9 000SEK thats about 1 000$ or more but Sweden is one of the highest priced countries in the world...
******* unbelievable

Well hoping to hear more answers from the veterans in the field! who have the knowledge.

Best


Andreas



__________________________________________________ ______
Peugeot 206 RC
Nissan 200sx -90 (400BHP rollcage and the lot)

Fanman

No the turbo is not a custom unit for the RX8. In the SSR kit it is a T04 turbo, in the Greddy it is pretty much a standard 18G turbo. Those are common turbos. Several of the posters on this board now are getting to about 260-275 whp with the Greddy kit (no one has pushed it to 300+ whp on a consistent basis but RX8PR looks very close, but if you are looking for 350 hp (at the engine, about 310 whp) you might want to look at the SSR & PTP Motorsports units coming out, though the SSR/SFR unit is quite a bit more than the Greddy package. They do have more upside though. The $2900 for the Greddy is a relitive bargain when you compare it to turbo kits from the Nissan 350Z/Infiniti G35 & the kits for the Honda S2000. Some of the parts I would look at are if you are looking for 350 hp reliably :

Turbo kit
Boost controller
Turbo timer
Blow off valve
Racing Beat Oil Meter Modification
Spark Plugs (1 to 2 heat ranges colder)

off the top of my head

skuggan

Well Im very much of a noob to wankel engines, I mean in a normal piston engine car you would have to change the pistons and the rods. but I guess in the wankel you dont change the rotory or?

therm8

Maybe new seals. You could change out the rotors, but it'd be kind of pointless unless you're building a race motor, or maybe changing displacement (1.6L would be cool )

Fanman

Not aware of any company that makes reinforced seals for the Renesis yet.

caribbean_spice_boy_73

good post guys.. all the questions I had was touched in one reading here.. keep up the good typing..

therm8

Me either, but the side seals are the only things, internal to the engine, that I could think of that might need replacing for big power.

rudy8

:Dbitchin camaro

skuggan

so no need to change anything inside of the "real" engine then, just adding stuff outside of it?
what about the ports? exhast and intake?
No the intention is not to build a race engine, altough I will drive it on course with R tires not slicks, but the primary target is a street car, that will have reliability and will start when I turn the key
So I don't have to worry about popping the hood everymorning when I go to the job or something like that
Don't like to mess up the suit :D
So the org. engine would be able to coop with all the psi that the turbo would have to deal in order to reach 350bhp? no need to change compression ratio or anything? or perhaps it is done in a different way then in a reg. engine?

Whats in the "turbo kit" I mean if thats not a very long list then I don't see why anyone would pay approx 5 000$ for the conversion...

Fanman

Honestly, nobody knows yet. Nobody has pushed the car to 310-320 whp to see if the engine can handle it. If you did you would be the first one, so nobody knows about the reliability of a daily driven 310 whp RX8. Intake comes with the current kits (Greddy, SSR/SFR, PTP), and it would be good to get an exhaust, though none of the current units have been designed with the turbo in mind. HP cost money. The SSR/SFR kit seems like it has great components, but it will also cost $5000 just for the kit, with no engine/fuel management. Not to mention the cost of installation. No price on the PTP. Unless you have $5000-$6000 (& in your case you are looking for 300+ to the wheels, probably $7000) don't bother with the turbo kit.

skuggan

But the stock engine produces 230bhp approx right?
Is whp the torque produced by the engine? if that is so then why are you
connecting the bhp with the whp? they have almost nothing in common,
just because you have an increase in one of the units doesn't mean that the other gets improved.

What are the approx effects after each of these kits then? not even 300bhp?
I for one think its a hell of alot to spend $5000 dollars and not even get a 70bhp increase in the engine!

I have spent approx $5000-6000 total on my Nissan with IC, turbo, fuel management, launch controll and got it from 169bhp to almost 400bhp? and its reliable...

It just sounds wrong that you would have to spend that amount of money for so little horsepower, or is it just because the modell is so new?

Beep
just realised that whp would be wheelhorsepower
muhahahaha

editet!!! god damn hope noone saw that

Well what kind of loss to you count from the engine down to the tires?
Since no one said anything about changing any parts of the axles gears etc Im guessing all of that would be stock?
Is there some %-% ? say you count between two different % and the power would be there somewhere.

Fanman

The stock engine produces about 170-180 whp on average. That translates out closer to 210-220 hp at the engine. Unfortunately, that has pretty much been proven, not the 230-240 that Mazda is claiming. The current Greddy kit gives a dyno proven 60+ hp to the wheels with most people getting 240-250 whp. Some have gotten up to almost 270 whp, but were running lean. The SFR/SSR unit has dynos that have about 280-287 whp. These units are giving somewhere between 60 to 110 whp. Nobody has pushed past this for fear of blowing the engine. This isn't making a stock turbo car, a faster turbo car. This is turning a stock NA car to a turbo car. If you look at cars like the Nissan 350Z or the Honda S2000 you will see their turbo kits are very expensive as well. We don't use bhp here, because none of us have pulled our engines out to dyno them. We just strap our cars to the rollers & measure hp to the wheels. Very few people do bhp to measure increase in hp of a FI kit. Honestly, if you want cheap hp, this is not the car to get. You should seriously take a look at the SRT-4, Evo, or STI. These are stock FI cars, and much easier to fix up (but much uglier in my opinion).

RX8PR

In Puerto Rico it's a blue one with 392HP at the wheel..................
But it's not the greddy kit. This a custom kit and cost a lot of time and $$$.
Now it's runing without problems............

My car it's right now at the shop and with the new changes we
spec to make more than 300HP with the greddy turbine.

There is other gray RX8 from other shop that has the greddy kit
plus a nitro kit that is making near 350 HP at the wheel.

On the same shop they have a 20B RX8 making near 400HP

THe other day at the Carolina Race track a black RX8 makes 11.5 sec in 1/4 mile
I don't know the owner, but I can find him!

The competition here is tuff ! and still growing!

Manuel

skuggan

Fanman well Im not out to get a bargain! I want a nice looking car with a great chassi and great engine potential!
I would not touch the STI with a 20 foot pool! and the evo... no comment
I have been looking at the 350 and the s2000, but the 350 doesnt have the looks of the 8 and the s2000 is old now!

Whats the major differences between the 7 engine and the 8 engine then? since so many persons got there 7 engines in such a fanatic power!?

Manuel perhaps I should check some PR shops then? my gf speaks spanish fluently so I guess she would be able to read the homepages for me(hopefully)
Manuel I have read your posts about that 8! could you ask the mechanic if the car would be able to perform like that everyday without braking or if it is a 1000mile with luck modification

RX8PR

When you make a street car like that one the intention is that you can use the car every day, you set your car to be used with hi or low boost. When you're not running
you don't need to run it at hi boost...............but when in a red ligth someone
whants to race you know what you need to do!
This car has detonation sensors, cut off at specific RPM, the computer has a setting
to always run's at the desire FAR, etc. etc. You try to play the game as safe as possible
but nothing it's 100% safe.

Manuel

skuggan

of course nothing is safe!
Even your stock engine might fall apart!
But you still know if your engine is reliable or if you would never do a 50mile trip through the endless woods

But my problem here is understanding the wankel and the wankel limits!
Im trying to relate it to a piston engine any way that I can.
So please tell me when and why my thoughts are out in the cold :d

But if I take a normal n/a engine and moddy it to a turbo, then I can use say perhaps 6psi without hitting the real danger zone, but if I change to say JE forged pistons then suddenly the engine is almost a solid turbo engine and you can start creaming it like a real turbo engine!

Since no one is doing this yet my question is, is it because you cant do something like that to a rotary or is it because there are no parts yet in order to do it?
Or perhaps it doesnt even work this way on a rotary engine?

Hope Im not being a big pest, just wanting to get all the info I need in order to evaluate the project

RX8PR

In my car I'm running 10 psi boost for the last 3,000 miles without problems.
For me the factory seals can handle that and more without trouble......
The other RX8 (blue) is running 19 psi in hi boost and 15 psi on low boost.

Which are the Renesis limits? I think that right now ones can't tell you.........this engine
is very new and not to many people are trying to make high performance mods,
to do that they prefer the old 13B.


Manuel

Fanman

Yeah, I think the Puerto Ricans have something genetically encoded in them that lets them tune the hell out of the rotaries. It's like from birth the parents put a RX brochure in their crib.

For rotary engines the apex seals were the issue in the previous generation cars. They had ones made out of more robust materials (carbon fiber, ceramic, etc), thicker units. Nobody has made these foe the Renesis yet. Stock boost on a Greddy kit is 7 in the rev range, & 5 lbs. at the top. Many people have put on a few more lbs. Nobody, except RX8PR (on this board) is pushing the 10-12 lb. range. Also be aware he is runing an upgraded fuel system. That is not with the stock fuel system.

crosswound

19psi jesus that must put out some crazy power.

RX8PR

Now the car makes 392 HP


Manuel

Moostafa29

Geez

skuggan

Alright so instead of forged pistons you use upgraded seals.
Well first thing when I inteend to upgrade my engine is to supply it with sufficient fuel, as for the 8 I guess that would mean 6 new injektors a new fuel pump and perhaps draw new fuel lines, anything I missed out?
Ohh of course a fuel pump manager.

A mapping system is something I find as obvious in a system that is going to give som high power output!

I really find the rotax engine to be excellent, 10psi on the stock engine thats about 1bar right?
thats cool...
On the other hand I have heard that the downside when tuning a rotax is that they get extremely thirsty is this correct?

guitarjunkie28

a bone stock renesis is good for 350+ whp with the right supporting mods.

apex seals are fine, and should be even more reliable than in the rx7 motors.
side seals you're probably going to want to get coated with something-as they get destroyed all on their own, even in a stock motor.

porting the exhaust is gonna make worlds of difference in both spoolup and power.
side exhaust layout is bad for turbos, so a ball bearing turbo (although not a total necessity) will be better for the spoolup.

the 8 doesn't have a return line stock, so that'd be a good thing to invest in, along with a "normal" fuel pressure regulator. injectors go without saying.

computer is a nightmare--get rid of it....well, keep it so it talks to the other systems, but don't let it control the motor--use an ems for that.

other than that, it's the same thing as any other engine... fuel, intercooler, etc etc.

i ballparked out some pricing with a friend that was thinking about having this all done and we came up with about $9k for just the parts to do it reliably.