What parts needed to reach 350bhp and use it everyday!
05-13-2005, 11:37 AM
#26
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Apex seals are not like forged pistons. In relation to a piston engine, it is like reinforced piston rings.
1 bar is = to 14.7 psi.
In the long thread on the turbo we have talked about the injectors, and there is ne need to take out the primary 1 injectors. I believe it is the secondaries & primary 2's that should be swapped out over boost levels of about 8-9 psi. The stock units are 380cc's. People have looked at the 440 cc's & 550 cc's depending on what level of boost you are looking for.
Agan this is such a new engine that very few peopleare porting them yet, except guitarjunkie28 (but I heard it made a big difference for Snoochie's engine), or have reinforced apex or side seals for them. In the RX7 porting made a very big hp gain by itself.
1 bar is = to 14.7 psi.
In the long thread on the turbo we have talked about the injectors, and there is ne need to take out the primary 1 injectors. I believe it is the secondaries & primary 2's that should be swapped out over boost levels of about 8-9 psi. The stock units are 380cc's. People have looked at the 440 cc's & 550 cc's depending on what level of boost you are looking for.
Agan this is such a new engine that very few peopleare porting them yet, except guitarjunkie28 (but I heard it made a big difference for Snoochie's engine), or have reinforced apex or side seals for them. In the RX7 porting made a very big hp gain by itself.
05-13-2005, 11:55 AM
#27
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by RX8PR
THe other day at the Carolina Race track a black RX8 makes 11.5 sec in 1/4 mile
I don't know the owner, but I can find him!
I don't know the owner, but I can find him!
we'd love pics/time slips/vids, etc...
:D
Gracias
05-13-2005, 01:38 PM
#28
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>skuggan
I´m sharing many of your thoughts about upgrading the engine... As a first step I´ll get the GReddy turbo-kit next week. I will also get the GReddy carback if the pipes fits to the Veilside D1-GT rear bumper without melting it. =) This will give me 60+ hp gain, and I will settle for that during this year. Next step will be streetporting... After that the car should be good for 300+ hp. If you do this correctly the car will be both fast and reliable and while being so it won´t leave your wallet totally empty. Porting the engine correctly will increase hp and fueleconomy,,, I can´t see how this can go wrong! =)
I´m sharing many of your thoughts about upgrading the engine... As a first step I´ll get the GReddy turbo-kit next week. I will also get the GReddy carback if the pipes fits to the Veilside D1-GT rear bumper without melting it. =) This will give me 60+ hp gain, and I will settle for that during this year. Next step will be streetporting... After that the car should be good for 300+ hp. If you do this correctly the car will be both fast and reliable and while being so it won´t leave your wallet totally empty. Porting the engine correctly will increase hp and fueleconomy,,, I can´t see how this can go wrong! =)
05-13-2005, 07:18 PM
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dmp,
I would find him.............. his mechanic is from the center of the Island. I know his
mechanic but not the owner. On their shop they have a rotary miata, a rotary
B2000 mazda pick up, etc, crazy Puertorican's!
But we spec that the blue one runs near or below 11.0 on the 1/4 mile....................
Our mechanic say that the highest he can spec is a 11.5 sec.
Manuel
I would find him.............. his mechanic is from the center of the Island. I know his
mechanic but not the owner. On their shop they have a rotary miata, a rotary
B2000 mazda pick up, etc, crazy Puertorican's!
But we spec that the blue one runs near or below 11.0 on the 1/4 mile....................
Our mechanic say that the highest he can spec is a 11.5 sec.
Manuel
05-13-2005, 08:00 PM
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Just wait and buy the Extreme when it is available. It is reported to have 362BHP from the factory. http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=88673
I mentioned this in the forum a few months ago and nobody seemed to believe it back then ... Never the less it is coming.
The interesting thing to note is that not much changed on the car except that a Turbo was added. This may imply that you could safely mod your to get 350 without changing anything inside the engine such as rotors etc.
Cuzzin
I mentioned this in the forum a few months ago and nobody seemed to believe it back then ... Never the less it is coming.
The interesting thing to note is that not much changed on the car except that a Turbo was added. This may imply that you could safely mod your to get 350 without changing anything inside the engine such as rotors etc.
Cuzzin
05-13-2005, 10:20 PM
#33
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I also heard of the extreme a long time ago. With 360hp, its supposed to do the 0-62 in about 4.8sec. Thats only a bit faster than the wrx sti, which only has 300hp. Isnt it a little wierd that a car with 60 more hp will only be .1-.2 sec faster in 0-60?
05-14-2005, 01:32 AM
#36
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I dont believe the numbers either.
Go from 238Hp to 362 HP and you only get a 9 tenths of a second off the quarter?
Go from 238Hp to 362 HP and you only get a 9 tenths of a second off the quarter?
The Extreme supposedly got to 60mph over a full second faster than stock. Are you saying it's slower than stock after 60mph?
If you can get to 60 more than a second faster than stock that should equate to a drop in 1/4-miles times of about two seconds depending on gearing, boost timing, etc.
05-16-2005, 08:26 PM
#37
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Thats right. I would expect a big drop in 1/4 times. Still, i'd be pissed to have a car with 60 more horses only be a bit quicker than than evo's and sti's.
05-17-2005, 02:44 PM
#39
This is a pretty easy question
Get the GReddy turbo kit and install it
Now swap out that turbo for something like an FP3065, include bigger injectors, a boost controller, external wastegate
Get the GReddy pressure sensor harness and an electronic boost gauge so you can tune for boost rather than throttle/rpm
increase fuel, increase boost, enjoy.
Get the GReddy turbo kit and install it
Now swap out that turbo for something like an FP3065, include bigger injectors, a boost controller, external wastegate
Get the GReddy pressure sensor harness and an electronic boost gauge so you can tune for boost rather than throttle/rpm
increase fuel, increase boost, enjoy.
05-18-2005, 09:54 AM
#41
Originally Posted by skuggan
of course nothing is safe!
Even your stock engine might fall apart!
But you still know if your engine is reliable or if you would never do a 50mile trip through the endless woods
But my problem here is understanding the wankel and the wankel limits!
Im trying to relate it to a piston engine any way that I can.
So please tell me when and why my thoughts are out in the cold :d
But if I take a normal n/a engine and moddy it to a turbo, then I can use say perhaps 6psi without hitting the real danger zone, but if I change to say JE forged pistons then suddenly the engine is almost a solid turbo engine and you can start creaming it like a real turbo engine!
Since no one is doing this yet my question is, is it because you cant do something like that to a rotary or is it because there are no parts yet in order to do it?
Or perhaps it doesnt even work this way on a rotary engine?
Hope Im not being a big pest, just wanting to get all the info I need in order to evaluate the project
Even your stock engine might fall apart!
But you still know if your engine is reliable or if you would never do a 50mile trip through the endless woods
But my problem here is understanding the wankel and the wankel limits!
Im trying to relate it to a piston engine any way that I can.
So please tell me when and why my thoughts are out in the cold :d
But if I take a normal n/a engine and moddy it to a turbo, then I can use say perhaps 6psi without hitting the real danger zone, but if I change to say JE forged pistons then suddenly the engine is almost a solid turbo engine and you can start creaming it like a real turbo engine!
Since no one is doing this yet my question is, is it because you cant do something like that to a rotary or is it because there are no parts yet in order to do it?
Or perhaps it doesnt even work this way on a rotary engine?
Hope Im not being a big pest, just wanting to get all the info I need in order to evaluate the project
A) Stock compression
B) Strength of stock internals
C) Tuning
On this engine, the Compression is about 10:1 which should support boost to about 12 psi without any internal problems or detonation, with proper tuning and fuel. The stock internals have shown strength up to 19 psi though!
The other issue is in the tuning - not only would you want to retard timing (or run colder spark plugs), but you need to flow enough fuel to avoid detonation. ALSO - on a non-turbo car running a turbo, the computer isn't set to detect boost like a stock-turbo car, so you might wanna switch over to pressure sensor tuning like with the GReddy e-manage/pressure sensor/sensor harness.
05-18-2005, 09:57 AM
#42
Originally Posted by skuggan
Alright so instead of forged pistons you use upgraded seals.
Well first thing when I inteend to upgrade my engine is to supply it with sufficient fuel, as for the 8 I guess that would mean 6 new injektors a new fuel pump and perhaps draw new fuel lines, anything I missed out?
Ohh of course a fuel pump manager.
A mapping system is something I find as obvious in a system that is going to give som high power output!
I really find the rotax engine to be excellent, 10psi on the stock engine thats about 1bar right?
thats cool...
On the other hand I have heard that the downside when tuning a rotax is that they get extremely thirsty is this correct?
Well first thing when I inteend to upgrade my engine is to supply it with sufficient fuel, as for the 8 I guess that would mean 6 new injektors a new fuel pump and perhaps draw new fuel lines, anything I missed out?
Ohh of course a fuel pump manager.
A mapping system is something I find as obvious in a system that is going to give som high power output!
I really find the rotax engine to be excellent, 10psi on the stock engine thats about 1bar right?
thats cool...
On the other hand I have heard that the downside when tuning a rotax is that they get extremely thirsty is this correct?
Yes, rotaries are incredibly thirsty
I wouldn't change seals just yet - the stock RX-7 seals were good for 700 hp, people kept blowing them because they would add things like downpipe/exhaust without tuning, which would raise boost and lean out the fuel mixture, causing detonation - the seals don't like detonation! If you give it enough fuel (which is why rotaries are so damned thirsty) and run rich enough, it will be nice to you.
If you want to lower compression you're going to have to actually cut into the surface of the rotors themselves. Seals are more like piston rings.
05-18-2005, 10:00 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Petrus
>skuggan
I´m sharing many of your thoughts about upgrading the engine... As a first step I´ll get the GReddy turbo-kit next week. I will also get the GReddy carback if the pipes fits to the Veilside D1-GT rear bumper without melting it. =) This will give me 60+ hp gain, and I will settle for that during this year. Next step will be streetporting... After that the car should be good for 300+ hp. If you do this correctly the car will be both fast and reliable and while being so it won´t leave your wallet totally empty. Porting the engine correctly will increase hp and fueleconomy,,, I can´t see how this can go wrong! =)
I´m sharing many of your thoughts about upgrading the engine... As a first step I´ll get the GReddy turbo-kit next week. I will also get the GReddy carback if the pipes fits to the Veilside D1-GT rear bumper without melting it. =) This will give me 60+ hp gain, and I will settle for that during this year. Next step will be streetporting... After that the car should be good for 300+ hp. If you do this correctly the car will be both fast and reliable and while being so it won´t leave your wallet totally empty. Porting the engine correctly will increase hp and fueleconomy,,, I can´t see how this can go wrong! =)
I wouldn't raise boost without at least a 3" exhaust, and something with less restrictions.
05-18-2005, 10:06 AM
#44
Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28
gt 35/40 but stick the compressor in a t04b housing, like the 60-1 hi-fi's, so it'll fit.
so you're suggesting something like a Precision GT35/61?
I suggested an FP/SBR/AGP because they're already in Mitsubishi housings and flanged for a Mitsubishi exhaust manifold, which is what we use (18g compressor in TD06 housing).
05-18-2005, 10:28 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by cretinx
The GReddy exhaust is not ideal for a turbo.
I wouldn't raise boost without at least a 3" exhaust, and something with less restrictions.
I wouldn't raise boost without at least a 3" exhaust, and something with less restrictions.
05-18-2005, 01:27 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by cretinx
Remember if you switch injectors you get a crap idle
Yes, rotaries are incredibly thirsty
I wouldn't change seals just yet - the stock RX-7 seals were good for 700 hp, people kept blowing them because they would add things like downpipe/exhaust without tuning, which would raise boost and lean out the fuel mixture, causing detonation - the seals don't like detonation! If you give it enough fuel (which is why rotaries are so damned thirsty) and run rich enough, it will be nice to you.
If you want to lower compression you're going to have to actually cut into the surface of the rotors themselves. Seals are more like piston rings.
Yes, rotaries are incredibly thirsty
I wouldn't change seals just yet - the stock RX-7 seals were good for 700 hp, people kept blowing them because they would add things like downpipe/exhaust without tuning, which would raise boost and lean out the fuel mixture, causing detonation - the seals don't like detonation! If you give it enough fuel (which is why rotaries are so damned thirsty) and run rich enough, it will be nice to you.
If you want to lower compression you're going to have to actually cut into the surface of the rotors themselves. Seals are more like piston rings.
i've got a glassy-smooth idle on big streetports (rx7 motors) and up to 1300cc primary injectors. tuning isn't only about running rich... the richer-the safer, up to a certain point, but past that point, you're just blowing smoke, wasting fuel, and robbing yourself of power.
finding a safe blend of fuel and timing it what it's all about.
05-18-2005, 02:14 PM
#47
Originally Posted by khtm
The stock exhaust is 3"....would that be ok?
First, the stock exhaust has serpentine-like mufflers instead of straight flow, and this makes the biggest difference in most exhausts.
Second, aftermarket exhausts designed for N/A applications in our car tend to be 60-65mm. The stock exhaust is bad news - trust me, I have it and I can feel the restriction.
05-18-2005, 02:16 PM
#48
Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28
i've got a glassy-smooth idle on big streetports (rx7 motors) and up to 1300cc primary injectors. tuning isn't only about running rich... the richer-the safer, up to a certain point, but past that point, you're just blowing smoke, wasting fuel, and robbing yourself of power.
finding a safe blend of fuel and timing it what it's all about.
finding a safe blend of fuel and timing it what it's all about.
with 1300ccs and a streetport my idle has horrid . . . . might have been the 3mm seals though. who knows.
05-18-2005, 11:44 PM
#49
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turn the timing down...or up
i've found (especially with early intake opening) that the less timing, the smoother the idle... it's -5 from the factory
with the bigger injectors, less static fuel pressure helps out a bit. they've got to overcome the fuel pressure to open.
port timing makes a big difference... i like a very mild advance and late closing on the primaries, and more advance with less closing on the secondaries... seems to be working great.
3mm seals don't seal as well as 2mm's, but they shouldn't make the difference between a good idle and a not-so-good one.
side feed, or the newer delphi, ball, multi-discharge (whatever you wanna call them) injectors are great for not only idle, but all around efficiency.
another trick with the porting is to leave the primary runners a but rough (60 or so grit flap wheel). the extra turbulence along the port wall will help keep the fuel in suspension. i make the secondaries quite a bit smoother because by the time they com online, there's enough velocity and airflow to keep the fuel in suspension on its own.
if you have diffusers, make sure you use them
that's about all i can think of off the top of my head.
i'll just say that tuning makes a huge difference in the way a car idles. make sure you've got the fuel and timing right!
i've found (especially with early intake opening) that the less timing, the smoother the idle... it's -5 from the factory
with the bigger injectors, less static fuel pressure helps out a bit. they've got to overcome the fuel pressure to open.
port timing makes a big difference... i like a very mild advance and late closing on the primaries, and more advance with less closing on the secondaries... seems to be working great.
3mm seals don't seal as well as 2mm's, but they shouldn't make the difference between a good idle and a not-so-good one.
side feed, or the newer delphi, ball, multi-discharge (whatever you wanna call them) injectors are great for not only idle, but all around efficiency.
another trick with the porting is to leave the primary runners a but rough (60 or so grit flap wheel). the extra turbulence along the port wall will help keep the fuel in suspension. i make the secondaries quite a bit smoother because by the time they com online, there's enough velocity and airflow to keep the fuel in suspension on its own.
if you have diffusers, make sure you use them
that's about all i can think of off the top of my head.
i'll just say that tuning makes a huge difference in the way a car idles. make sure you've got the fuel and timing right!
05-19-2005, 06:45 AM
#50
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Well alot of good answers so far
U see the thing is I haven't exactly decided as of yet which car to buy and build.
My three head competitors are the 8 of course, S2000 and the 350z.
My personal reflection is that the 8 is the coolest one by far, and I also think that it has the best track chassi and also the best potential, altough so far the 350z has alot more tuning options, the downside is that the rear of the 350 looks like a audi tt and that is about the ugliest car you can put your eyes on.
And overall Nissan spits out cars, it doesnt have the looks of the rx8 not the luxury feeling and so on.
Altough the s2000 can look really sharp, can be tuned nicely BUT its a real old model now.
These are some of the things that I am currently taking in to consideration, also I am considering buying a tuned perhaps even styled car and just do the final touches.
Since I put down approx 34.000$ give or take a few regarding currency on my Nissan 200sx, I feel that I'm not really in the mood to do it again And that is only the cost for parts, most stuff has been done by myself and through contacts.
I guess that somewhere somehow I have already decided to go with the 8, its just that I will have to wait for the tuning companies to get together a nice little package that works
What are your responses to this?
U see the thing is I haven't exactly decided as of yet which car to buy and build.
My three head competitors are the 8 of course, S2000 and the 350z.
My personal reflection is that the 8 is the coolest one by far, and I also think that it has the best track chassi and also the best potential, altough so far the 350z has alot more tuning options, the downside is that the rear of the 350 looks like a audi tt and that is about the ugliest car you can put your eyes on.
And overall Nissan spits out cars, it doesnt have the looks of the rx8 not the luxury feeling and so on.
Altough the s2000 can look really sharp, can be tuned nicely BUT its a real old model now.
These are some of the things that I am currently taking in to consideration, also I am considering buying a tuned perhaps even styled car and just do the final touches.
Since I put down approx 34.000$ give or take a few regarding currency on my Nissan 200sx, I feel that I'm not really in the mood to do it again
And that is only the cost for parts, most stuff has been done by myself and through contacts.I guess that somewhere somehow I have already decided to go with the 8, its just that I will have to wait for the tuning companies to get together a nice little package that works
What are your responses to this?