WantedTwo will be boosted.... again.
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C4 burns real good
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From: Layton, Utah
WantedTwo will be boosted.... again.
I'm ready to undertake the task of boosting my 8 once again. It didn't go so well the first time as I was one of the early GReddy owners with the E-Manage blue. Less then six months after installing the kit I popped an apex seal in the rear rotor and had to sell the kit to help finance the rebuild. I have since learned from my mistakes which included but are not limited to:
1) Lack of a good engine management
2) Lack of tuning
3) Lack of monitoring equipment
4) Lack of financial responsibility
5) Lack of supporting mods
6) Poorly designed turbo kit
Number one is being fixed by the Cobb AccessPort that I've been running N/A for the better part of 2008 and I am thoroughly impressed with it. The down side to this system is the necessity for near perfect MAF sensor housing. The SFR kit that I'll be running will have a custom built intake pipe with the MAF remote mounted, meaning I'm moving the MAF outside of the front bulkhead, placing it before any bends or reducers and keeping it away from the turbo in order to keep the air as smooth as possible.
Number two is being fixed much in the same way as number one. I bought the AP from MazdaManiac and will continue to bribe him with booze, loose women, caffeine and cigarettes for help with tuning. It also helps that I've been assigned to Luke AFB in lovely Phoenix AZ so I can bug him more efficiently. Hopefully my plan for the new intake pipe will result in a very smooth, and predictable tune that should prove easy to maintain.
Fixing number three is a bit of a no brainer. One of the biggest faults on my part was not monitoring my AFR's that could have alerted me to potential problems before it was too late. I suppose you could say I'm going overkill in the monitoring front but it's always better to have too much information then not enough. I have been running with ProSport's water temp, oil temp and oil pressure for a while now and adding to that list will be Prosports premium boost gauge and their brand new wideband A/F gauge. Mounting the two new gauges is a bit of a problem as of now as we don't really have much of a solution for mounting five gauges. I'm hoping that the duel pod gauge cluster hood aka the "Mickey Mouse" will be finished in time and I can use it.
Number four: I wasn't making a whole lot back then and that was one of the reasons I didn't have the supporting mods needed to make a turbo 8 reliable. The 8 was also my only means of conveyance and it being un-drivable was a major problem. When I get home from this trip to the sand I plan on buying a second car so I'm not so reliant on the 8. This means I can take my time and make sure whatever I'm working on is done right the first time instead of having to make it good enough so the car can be driven. Being financially responsible also means that I have the means to cover an engine replacement should the need arise.
Supporting modifications to a turbo car are not just a good idea but a necessity for engine longevity. This will be especially evident when I move to Phoenix. It’s a well known fact that many of the 8's systems are lacking. I will be replacing the water pump, radiator, ignition coils, oil pan and P2 injectors. Also making this list is a new hood that I will be picking up from a fellow club member on my trek to Arizona. I wanted a vented carbon fiber hood to help keep the engine bay cooler because of the top mount turbo and it's going to look bad *** once I get it painted.
And lastly we come to the kit itself. I've done quite a bit of research on each potential kit and the SFR kit has come out on top. They use quality name brand parts unlike Esmeril (It's my thread and I can say it), the turbo isn't crap (GReddy), I don't have to buy an unneeded engine management (GReddy), they have superb communication (unlike PTP), it's manufacturer is still in business and isn't a douche bag (Mazsport), and the kit is readily available (sorry Jeff
). The MM/BHR kit would have been my primary choice mainly because of the proven success of Satan’s hairdryer but I wanted a top mount kit.
SFR has been absolutely outstanding with communication and knowledge about our cars. At first I was set on getting the GT-K series of turbo, but they advised me, without hesitation, that it would not be the best turbo for the car. The turbo they recommended saved me a pretty good chunk of change. The only down side that I can see thus far is the price of the kit itself. It is quite expensive but you get what you pay for. Everything is done right and there is no compromise because of space. The kit is exceptionally versatile in it's design; the wastegate is properly sized and the pipes don't double back on themselves. I will have the first MAF based SFR kit produced so SFR is very interested in my results, and have said they would consider a design change and have the option for the kit to be shipped with a pretuned AccessPort, that could be based off of Jeff's maps if he is willing to pick them up as a customer. All in all, good stuff is happening.
Along with my improved intake design I'm also asking SFR if they will ceramic coat the hot side pipes and housing as well as provide the heat wrapping. Incase you haven’t noticed I'm trying my best to keep heat to a minimum as I would also like to run the Sohn adapter. One of the flaws of a top mount (words from CRH @ BHR) is the inability to run the Sohn as the heat causes it to melt, and that’s a bit of a problem in my book.
There is going to be a three step install plan. I'm having the smaller parts sent to my moms house in Mississippi. There I will install the RacingBrake BBK, RB rear two piece rotors, BHR ignition, new plugs, SS and all the electronics. From Mississippi I'm going to drive to my dads place in Junction Tx, picking up my new hood from a forum member in the Dallas area. While in Junction I will utilize my dads lift (that’s right, my dad owns a mechanic shop
) to put in the BHR flywheel and CB, BHR Clutch, BHR Radiator, Remedy water pump, sways, coilovers, and GReddy oil pan. Stage three will be when I get to Az, and get settled in. There I will have an install party where the booze will flow freely and the rest of the dream will come together.
I like to think I've given quite a bit of thought and research to getting back into the boosting game and hope to have a relatively reliable monster when I get done. I have included a parts list of things that I have already put on the car, what is already procured, and what still needs to be bought. Please keep in mind some of those prices are outdated, include a military discount, were bought used, or in the case of the BHR clutch are a complete estimation on my part for budgeting reasons so please don't ask me how or why I paid blah blah for blah blah. But, input and suggestions to the list and anything else are welcomed as I do have quite a bit of time on my hands before I actually put parts on the car as were talking about mid May time frame when I get to Az and get settled in. I know it seems like a long way off but this is a good thing as it will give plenty of time for SFR to build the parts and I will also have everything bought and waiting. Sorry for the long *** write up but hey, for those of you thinking about getting into the game, here is a good start on how to do it right the first time and the cost involved.
*Note - the original plan was to go with the PTP kit for cost reason, but for reasons listed below, they lost my business.
Update
Major change of plans. Due to PTP's lack of interest in actually selling me a kit, I've had enough and decided to bite the bullet and just go ahead with the SFR kit. Yes it does cost more but once I started looking at it, it has several advantages to the ptp kit, mainly the 46mm waste gate and better quality hot side pipes. I came to this decision yesterday, and between three emails, and one 20 minute phone call, we got more done then PTP did in over two months. I'm very impressed with Tim at SFR, they didn't try to sell me parts just because, Tim flat out told me the GT-K turbo that I was eyeballing would not be ideal and suggested the cheaper but better T4 option. Over all I'm extremely impressed with their knowledge and willingness to help. Here is what the kit that I'll be getting will contain.
Mazda RX-8 single turbo system (complete). Comes with 321SS header with an F1 style double slip-fit connection and air pump bung delete, 60-1 , P-trim, .70AR, BB T-4 water cooled turbocharger, turbo mounting bracket, stainless oil feed and return lines, Tial 46mm wastegate, 304SS down pipe with v-band clamp assemblies, 304SS wastegate dump tube, custom aluminum intake with 3.5" MAF housing and intercooler piping, Spearco intercooler, Synapse blow-off valve, blue silicone hoses and stainless clamps, K&N air filter and 2000F Ceramic coating for T4 housing and hot side piping.
1) Lack of a good engine management
2) Lack of tuning
3) Lack of monitoring equipment
4) Lack of financial responsibility
5) Lack of supporting mods
6) Poorly designed turbo kit
Number one is being fixed by the Cobb AccessPort that I've been running N/A for the better part of 2008 and I am thoroughly impressed with it. The down side to this system is the necessity for near perfect MAF sensor housing. The SFR kit that I'll be running will have a custom built intake pipe with the MAF remote mounted, meaning I'm moving the MAF outside of the front bulkhead, placing it before any bends or reducers and keeping it away from the turbo in order to keep the air as smooth as possible.
Number two is being fixed much in the same way as number one. I bought the AP from MazdaManiac and will continue to bribe him with booze, loose women, caffeine and cigarettes for help with tuning. It also helps that I've been assigned to Luke AFB in lovely Phoenix AZ so I can bug him more efficiently. Hopefully my plan for the new intake pipe will result in a very smooth, and predictable tune that should prove easy to maintain.
Fixing number three is a bit of a no brainer. One of the biggest faults on my part was not monitoring my AFR's that could have alerted me to potential problems before it was too late. I suppose you could say I'm going overkill in the monitoring front but it's always better to have too much information then not enough. I have been running with ProSport's water temp, oil temp and oil pressure for a while now and adding to that list will be Prosports premium boost gauge and their brand new wideband A/F gauge. Mounting the two new gauges is a bit of a problem as of now as we don't really have much of a solution for mounting five gauges. I'm hoping that the duel pod gauge cluster hood aka the "Mickey Mouse" will be finished in time and I can use it.
Number four: I wasn't making a whole lot back then and that was one of the reasons I didn't have the supporting mods needed to make a turbo 8 reliable. The 8 was also my only means of conveyance and it being un-drivable was a major problem. When I get home from this trip to the sand I plan on buying a second car so I'm not so reliant on the 8. This means I can take my time and make sure whatever I'm working on is done right the first time instead of having to make it good enough so the car can be driven. Being financially responsible also means that I have the means to cover an engine replacement should the need arise.
Supporting modifications to a turbo car are not just a good idea but a necessity for engine longevity. This will be especially evident when I move to Phoenix. It’s a well known fact that many of the 8's systems are lacking. I will be replacing the water pump, radiator, ignition coils, oil pan and P2 injectors. Also making this list is a new hood that I will be picking up from a fellow club member on my trek to Arizona. I wanted a vented carbon fiber hood to help keep the engine bay cooler because of the top mount turbo and it's going to look bad *** once I get it painted.
And lastly we come to the kit itself. I've done quite a bit of research on each potential kit and the SFR kit has come out on top. They use quality name brand parts unlike Esmeril (It's my thread and I can say it), the turbo isn't crap (GReddy), I don't have to buy an unneeded engine management (GReddy), they have superb communication (unlike PTP), it's manufacturer is still in business and isn't a douche bag (Mazsport), and the kit is readily available (sorry Jeff
). The MM/BHR kit would have been my primary choice mainly because of the proven success of Satan’s hairdryer but I wanted a top mount kit. SFR has been absolutely outstanding with communication and knowledge about our cars. At first I was set on getting the GT-K series of turbo, but they advised me, without hesitation, that it would not be the best turbo for the car. The turbo they recommended saved me a pretty good chunk of change. The only down side that I can see thus far is the price of the kit itself. It is quite expensive but you get what you pay for. Everything is done right and there is no compromise because of space. The kit is exceptionally versatile in it's design; the wastegate is properly sized and the pipes don't double back on themselves. I will have the first MAF based SFR kit produced so SFR is very interested in my results, and have said they would consider a design change and have the option for the kit to be shipped with a pretuned AccessPort, that could be based off of Jeff's maps if he is willing to pick them up as a customer. All in all, good stuff is happening.
Along with my improved intake design I'm also asking SFR if they will ceramic coat the hot side pipes and housing as well as provide the heat wrapping. Incase you haven’t noticed I'm trying my best to keep heat to a minimum as I would also like to run the Sohn adapter. One of the flaws of a top mount (words from CRH @ BHR) is the inability to run the Sohn as the heat causes it to melt, and that’s a bit of a problem in my book.
There is going to be a three step install plan. I'm having the smaller parts sent to my moms house in Mississippi. There I will install the RacingBrake BBK, RB rear two piece rotors, BHR ignition, new plugs, SS and all the electronics. From Mississippi I'm going to drive to my dads place in Junction Tx, picking up my new hood from a forum member in the Dallas area. While in Junction I will utilize my dads lift (that’s right, my dad owns a mechanic shop
) to put in the BHR flywheel and CB, BHR Clutch, BHR Radiator, Remedy water pump, sways, coilovers, and GReddy oil pan. Stage three will be when I get to Az, and get settled in. There I will have an install party where the booze will flow freely and the rest of the dream will come together.I like to think I've given quite a bit of thought and research to getting back into the boosting game and hope to have a relatively reliable monster when I get done. I have included a parts list of things that I have already put on the car, what is already procured, and what still needs to be bought. Please keep in mind some of those prices are outdated, include a military discount, were bought used, or in the case of the BHR clutch are a complete estimation on my part for budgeting reasons so please don't ask me how or why I paid blah blah for blah blah. But, input and suggestions to the list and anything else are welcomed as I do have quite a bit of time on my hands before I actually put parts on the car as were talking about mid May time frame when I get to Az and get settled in. I know it seems like a long way off but this is a good thing as it will give plenty of time for SFR to build the parts and I will also have everything bought and waiting. Sorry for the long *** write up but hey, for those of you thinking about getting into the game, here is a good start on how to do it right the first time and the cost involved.
*Note - the original plan was to go with the PTP kit for cost reason, but for reasons listed below, they lost my business.
Update
Major change of plans. Due to PTP's lack of interest in actually selling me a kit, I've had enough and decided to bite the bullet and just go ahead with the SFR kit. Yes it does cost more but once I started looking at it, it has several advantages to the ptp kit, mainly the 46mm waste gate and better quality hot side pipes. I came to this decision yesterday, and between three emails, and one 20 minute phone call, we got more done then PTP did in over two months. I'm very impressed with Tim at SFR, they didn't try to sell me parts just because, Tim flat out told me the GT-K turbo that I was eyeballing would not be ideal and suggested the cheaper but better T4 option. Over all I'm extremely impressed with their knowledge and willingness to help. Here is what the kit that I'll be getting will contain.
Mazda RX-8 single turbo system (complete). Comes with 321SS header with an F1 style double slip-fit connection and air pump bung delete, 60-1 , P-trim, .70AR, BB T-4 water cooled turbocharger, turbo mounting bracket, stainless oil feed and return lines, Tial 46mm wastegate, 304SS down pipe with v-band clamp assemblies, 304SS wastegate dump tube, custom aluminum intake with 3.5" MAF housing and intercooler piping, Spearco intercooler, Synapse blow-off valve, blue silicone hoses and stainless clamps, K&N air filter and 2000F Ceramic coating for T4 housing and hot side piping.
Last edited by WantedTwo; Feb 12, 2011 at 02:26 AM.
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
Here are the numbers you all have been waiting for!! This is directly from CRH who was kind enough to take my car to the dyno while I was away, thanks again Ray!
Jeff spent three hours getting a rock-solid tune on your car and you now have 325 rwhp (with 91 octane pump gas) that you can drive all day. I need to update your spark plug wires and give the entire car a good "once over" and you will be all set.
There will be a dyno sheet in your car, as well. Generally speaking, your boost ramps up to 12 psi (at 4,500 rpms), then trims down a bit to a max of 10-11. The torque follows the same curve, with about 265 being available whenever there is full boost (all the way to a little over 8,000 rpms). With this kind of torque, high-rpms are not necessary.
The engine peaked at 337 rwhp but Jeff decided to tune it back a little for safety/durability.
Jeff spent three hours getting a rock-solid tune on your car and you now have 325 rwhp (with 91 octane pump gas) that you can drive all day. I need to update your spark plug wires and give the entire car a good "once over" and you will be all set.
There will be a dyno sheet in your car, as well. Generally speaking, your boost ramps up to 12 psi (at 4,500 rpms), then trims down a bit to a max of 10-11. The torque follows the same curve, with about 265 being available whenever there is full boost (all the way to a little over 8,000 rpms). With this kind of torque, high-rpms are not necessary.
The engine peaked at 337 rwhp but Jeff decided to tune it back a little for safety/durability.
Last edited by WantedTwo; Mar 9, 2011 at 11:36 PM.
I will probably to go witht he ptp... ive read up on esmirel and im not liking what i see..
plus my buddy is brother with the owner so hes always there. sooo service is not a problem since i also live 2 minutes away from them... the ptp rx8 is FAST! and he wasnt even in full throttle.
there isnt another turbo kit out right now that has caught my attention.
plus my buddy is brother with the owner so hes always there. sooo service is not a problem since i also live 2 minutes away from them... the ptp rx8 is FAST! and he wasnt even in full throttle.
there isnt another turbo kit out right now that has caught my attention.
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
From: Central IL
Couple of comments since I have the PTP. The sohn adapter will NOT fit! Second, you will have a hard time getting a 3.5" MAF pipe in that location. I'm not saying its not possible but... Also, how are you planning to extend the MAF wiring?
Give Jon a call after the holidays sometime around 9:30am CST. He is usually dyno tuning after that. Good luck!
Give Jon a call after the holidays sometime around 9:30am CST. He is usually dyno tuning after that. Good luck!
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
Ray at BHR was at one point talking about making an extender harness and if that isn't available then it will be an old fashioned snip and solder job.
Your build is one of the main reasons why I decided to do a remote after seeing the problems you had with airflow.
Calling people is a bit of a problem since I'm in Iraq right now
Your build is one of the main reasons why I decided to do a remote after seeing the problems you had with airflow.
Calling people is a bit of a problem since I'm in Iraq right now
Last edited by WantedTwo; Mar 11, 2009 at 02:14 AM.
I have managed to get air across the maf pretty damn smooth and consistent w/out moving it outside the engine bay. Have one more thing, which I really don't have to do, but swapping current maf housing for stock tube and it should be perfect.
(Nevermind Just noticed!)
If the setup didn't have the compressor outlet pipe coming out the same hole you'd be able to get a 3.5" all the way out and do as I did.
Anyway best of luck!
(Nevermind Just noticed!)
If the setup didn't have the compressor outlet pipe coming out the same hole you'd be able to get a 3.5" all the way out and do as I did.
Anyway best of luck!
Last edited by Derex'8; Jan 4, 2009 at 05:42 PM.
Doppelgänger
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 1
From: Florida
i don't like how close the turbo is to the engine/pulley/belts/battery. Relocating the batt to the trunk costs $100 for a kit, so there's no reason to not free up the bay space. If you're not going to put the MAF in the engine bay, and relocate the batt, you can locate the turbo more centrally in the engine bay, away from everything.
From hungry to greedy.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
i don't like how close the turbo is to the engine/pulley/belts/battery. Relocating the batt to the trunk costs $100 for a kit, so there's no reason to not free up the bay space. If you're not going to put the MAF in the engine bay, and relocate the batt, you can locate the turbo more centrally in the engine bay, away from everything.
and to the OP, this definately sounds like a solid plan. Hope all goes well, stay safe out there.
Last edited by Kane; Jan 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM.
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
i don't like how close the turbo is to the engine/pulley/belts/battery. Relocating the batt to the trunk costs $100 for a kit, so there's no reason to not free up the bay space. If you're not going to put the MAF in the engine bay, and relocate the batt, you can locate the turbo more centrally in the engine bay, away from everything.
I bid thee farewell
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
getting the mazda maf to behave....quite the task there, the only way i have ever made a mazda maf behave was on a mazdaspeed protege, and that involved installing a diffuser in the piping about 6 inches in front of the MAF, looks kinda like a honeycomb, once i did that i could go from 12psi boost cut and leanout to 18psi no issues.....thats one idea i hope that may help you, and im not talking about that typhoon gas saver thing at dollar tree either.
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
Update:
The water pump, oil pan, big brake kit, and 2 piece rear rotors have been purchased.
STILL no communication from PTP, will call them on Monday and try to talk to Jon. If I didn't have my mind so dead set on them I would have passed by now. It's getting harder to trust them with five grand when they can’t even return an email.
The water pump, oil pan, big brake kit, and 2 piece rear rotors have been purchased.
STILL no communication from PTP, will call them on Monday and try to talk to Jon. If I didn't have my mind so dead set on them I would have passed by now. It's getting harder to trust them with five grand when they can’t even return an email.
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
I am planning on putting in some screening material before the MAF. I don’t see the need to put it after as I'm fixing all of the reasons to have it back there by doing a remote. I'm trying my best to do the "Treat the problem not the symptoms" approach this time 
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
Updated parts list and I also spoke with Jon from ptp, who I'll call dream smasher... the short and sweet is there isn't enough room behind the front bumper for 3.5" piping and the MAF. So now I have to come up with another idea. What stands is the need to have smooth air and 3.5" pipe and the only place I can get that size pipe is to put the MAF housing where it is in the picture. What I'm thinking so far is to use 3"-3.5" reducing elbows for the bends and having that center pipe just as long as I can get it. Let me know if any of you folks have a stroke of genius, or just a stroke 
Thread Starter
C4 burns real good
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 848
Likes: 2
From: Layton, Utah
Major change of plans. Due to PTP's lack of interest in actually selling me a kit, I've had enough and decided to bite the bullet and just go ahead with the SFR kit. Yes it does cost more but once I started looking at it, it has several advantages to the ptp kit, mainly the 46mm waste gate and better quality hot side pipes. I came to this decision yesterday, and between three emails, and one 20 minute phone call, we got more done then PTP did in over two months. I'm very impressed with Tim at SFR, they didn't try to sell me parts just because, Tim flat out told me the GT-K turbo that I was eyeballing would not be ideal and suggested the cheaper but better T4 option. Over all I'm extremely impressed with their knowledge and willingness to help. Here is what the kit that I'll be getting will contain. I'm also going to update the original post and post a new parts sheet with a bunch of new toys.
Mazda RX-8 single turbo system (complete). Comes with 321SS header with an F1 style double slip-fit connection and air pump bung delete, 60-1, P-trim, .70AR, BB T-4 turbocharger, turbo mounting bracket, stainless oil feed and return lines, Tial 46mm wastegate, 304SS down pipe with v-band clamp assemblies, 304SS waste gate dump tube, custom aluminum intake with 3.5" MAF housing and intercooler piping, Spearco intercooler, Synapse blow-off valve, silicone hoses and stainless clamps, K&N air filter and 2000F Ceramic coating for hot side piping
Mazda RX-8 single turbo system (complete). Comes with 321SS header with an F1 style double slip-fit connection and air pump bung delete, 60-1, P-trim, .70AR, BB T-4 turbocharger, turbo mounting bracket, stainless oil feed and return lines, Tial 46mm wastegate, 304SS down pipe with v-band clamp assemblies, 304SS waste gate dump tube, custom aluminum intake with 3.5" MAF housing and intercooler piping, Spearco intercooler, Synapse blow-off valve, silicone hoses and stainless clamps, K&N air filter and 2000F Ceramic coating for hot side piping
Tim is really helpfull. I have the kit now I just got it up and running. Did you end up getting the 550cc injectors? Are you going to have tim make the correct intake for the accessport or are you going to run the powermod.