rotarygod

I've known Ari for a long time. Apparently you don't know as much as you think you do. He did it. Good for you. You raced in a different class. Go get yourself a cookie. I had different classes than my friend's did back in school. So what? That doesn't give you any credibility. I once raced autocross. That's a different class of racing. However I must be an expert on everyone else's cars as long as they race too! Ari did the impossible with that motor. I was there to see it. something is only impossible until someone does it. Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean it's impossible!

Haltech a rotary killer. That's a funny one. It's a very capable and proven system. Again this is a prime example of someone blaming a product for failure rather than their own poor setup or tuning skills!

RX8THELAW

your on crack i can't

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

You raced in NHRA?
Who are you?

rotarygod

Looks like you've got some proving to do so get to it. Let's see it.

phartknauker

I dont have much of a post count myself but I have been reading on these forums over a year now and from following most of Rotary god's post I assure you he really does know what he is talking about.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The entire point to the direction this conversation has gone is that there are too many people speaking from ignorance about the Renesis, and some of these people are supposed "professionals" who charge others money for their opinions and "experience". At one point people were afraid to try a simple 55 shot of nitrous, subject the Renny to detonation, or try going past the redline. I have done all three and my engine is still structurally fine. As regards high compression ratios and forced induction, read the latest Hot Rod Magazine to see a 13.5:1 Pontiac 400 that also has a 6-71 blower on it. This particular story is really focused on debunking the notion that Pontiacs have certain weak links but i couldn't help but take note of the compression ratio. The combination of compression ratios and manifold/housing pressures has as much to do with the fuel being used as it does mechanical preparations.

rotarygod

Modern day tuning really goes much farther than it used to as we have greater control. This means we are seeing more and more setups do very well when only a short time ago we'd have said it wasn't possible to do. It wasn't! The way people do things has really been rethought and revised quite a bit too. It's only the old fashioned people set in their ways that won't advance. I'll have to check out that article. It sounds interesting!

You of all people have been a person to disprove certain early conceptions of the engine. You were told that nitrous would blow up your engine. You were told you couldn't run over only so much of a shot without blowing up. You were told your apex seals couldn't tolerate any detonation and live through it. You were told your engine would blow up if it hit X rpm. It's funny isn't it?!

Remember it only took 66 years from man doing the impossible which was flying to the time he first stepped on the moon!

rotarygod

Just for grins, I've got an old catalog from a long defunk rotary company from southern California called Rotary Engineering. It is from 1987. It's funny what was considered powerful back then and how differently things were done as opposed to now. They have an engine package for the 13B called the "turbo alternative". It produces 225 hp (not rear wheel) and uses a full exhaust, dual Weber downdraft carbs on a custom intake manifold, and a ported engine. The next one up from that was intended for off road racing and is called the "super off-roadary". It produces 240 hp and uses a ported engine, single Weber IDA downdraft carb, and a full exhaust. It has less average power than the 225 hp kit but more peak power as it revs higher. Then they have a turbo package. It uses a ported 13B engine with the same Weber IDA downdraft carb and manifold but a turbo and NO intercooler. It uses water injection. 319 hp at 13 psi of boost. ALL of these engines use 9.4:1 compression ratio which were the high compression ratio rotors of the day.

I also have a brochure of a kit from around the same time that shows a turbo kit with a Weber DCOE carb but it is a draw through setup. The carb is in front of the turbo. It produced a little over 250 hp.

It's funny how in 20 years the way we do things and what we consider to be impressive have really changed. All of their engines used carbs. The GSL-SE 1st gens of 84-85 and the 2nd gen RX-7's (2 model years by this time) all used fuel injection yet the most sought after system for power was a carb and a distributer.

rotorocks

I love this "Impossible, can't be done" crap!!!
I remember how I was told that my setup was impossible on the 8, and it will make no boost and all kinds of other stuff and then come back and congratulate me on the job well done. If you really put your mind to it you'll be surprised how POSSIBLE it will be to boost Renesis.
If you are afraid to do something, or simply have no expertise to do it, it does not mean it's impossible, it means you don't know. PERIOD
As for detonation, CRH detonated his engine countless times.
I had detonated mine with Nitrous so hard that the ZZZZZAP from the engine was more audible than the sound of the exhaust at a near WOT, and we are still driving. And driving hard, and driving just fine.
Renny is the best rotary engine there is, its potential has simply not been discovered yet.

RX8THELAW

I love this board ahhah try it let me see when it blows up

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

and the noob of the month award goes to ..........

rotarygod

I'm still waiting. Do tell who you are and back up your statements. What are you afraid of?

rotorocks

If my engine blows, I'll be happy to share it with the board. The pictures, all the info on what I did, how I did it, and what I am going to do in order for it not to happen in the future, so that others know. How the hell do you think they came up with engines in the first place? Did they just happen?
You do something and and it works or not, but you keep pushing it until it can't go no more. Then you pull back asses your errors adjust and continue. And so on. Definitely not a business for someone whose rotors aren't turning.
And WTF is your deal anyway? So far we have not seen any constructive info coming from you. ...except for moaning

SlayerRX8

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i dont know, cant seem to figure it out..

beers

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

lol, I'm officially a troll ...

Digital_Damage

You will not last long unless you do some explaining...

staticlag

Word on the street is that Nemesis8 likes ribs.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

where did I say the renesis wasn't a stout engine? It is stronger, it has lighter rotors, and its seals take more abuse then any other previous stock engines, and makes more power NA.

However, when it comes down to someone wanting to take a rotary engine to insane levels of power with forced induction - the renesis and its high compression ratio and port setup is not going to be the engine of choice for anyone that has a choice of engines at their disposal. Sure you can make it work, but given equal tuning capability if you want to stay on pump gas sooner or later the high compression will make you hit a wall much sooner then lower compression.

Saying this isn't taking away anything from our engine - its just a different design with different intentions.

Greddyturbo1

It seems there are quite a few opinons on the Renesis ability to boost or not..
And like it or not, good or bad, opinons are good to hear. Obviously afew are just that (opinons).

But lets get back to Facts... Rotarygod your well respected here, But I did not read any comment on if you thought the High Seals would give us a problem boosting compared to the 13B. also you did touch on exhaust ports alittle , do you see a problem there that can be corrected with timing, and please anyone else please address these issues if you have information that would help..

I still wish we knew someone from Mazda engineering who can give us a definate
answer if this may be a problem or not... I know most are saying the Renesis is a stronger engine than a 13B-REW, but that doesn't make it the best Rotary to make the most power per Boost, pound per pound...

rotarygod

I don't see why the Renesis seals should give any issues compared to the stock 13B seals. When you get right down to it the 3 piece nature of the 13B seals inherently removes any advantages they had strength wise. Yes you can get 1 or 2 piece seals but you can also mill out Renesis rotors to use the same ones so as long as an engine is apart we are on even territory here. The Renesis seals themselves are stronger than the 13B seals from a metallurgy standpoint. If you were to compare one to the top half of a stock 13B seal, the Renesis seal would be stronger. We all know you can boost a 13B pretty well on stock seals. I don't see a Renesis issue being centered around the apex seals. Remember they also don't flew when crossing over an exhaust port so in many ways there is less stress on them.

I don't see the Renesis exhaust ports having a timing issue. I think it's plenty long enough. It's more in line with what a piston engine exhaust duration is. We all know that a piston engine can be boosted and that you don't necessarily want to get more duration on their exhaust cams. You don't need it. It's not only about total flow. Timing has a huge impact on where your powerband will be. The shape of the exhaust ports needs to be worked out but if we can get them to flow about what an intake port can, we're good. They need to be reworked a bit but we don't need to worry about making them ultra huge. Too many people like to port 13B exhaust ports really large but their powerbands also shift upwards. That's a compound issue.

Greddyturbo1

Thanks Rotarygod, you always give lengthy answers, which is great...So do I have you on record that you truely believe the Renesis will be a better motor than the 13B, when all is said and done....

Or do you feel like that rOtor may be right when he says" that the Renesis is stronger but its just a different design with a different intention" .

I don't want to discredit rx8thelaw, he might be full of it or maybe there is some truth here, it would be nice to here all sides without getting too hot headed( like my dad you to say).

rotarygod

The Renesis is a better engine. That's the nature of newer more advanced technology over older. The 13B was an engine that didn't change appreciably for almost 30 years. All rotaries in there had side intake and peripheral exhaust ports. They were all basically made the same way with the same materials. Timing varied among them slightly and so did compression ratio. As a comparison let's just say we had a piston engine from 1970. Now imagine over a 30 year period only changing the compression ratio or the cam slightly and pretty much nothing else. How advanced is that engine now? It's not. It's just a little different. That was the rotary for a long time. The Renesis fundamentally changed many things in the engine. The most important being the exhaust ports. While much of the engine still shares many build characteristics of the older rotaries, at least it has one big change that finally makes it better in terms of power and emissions and it does this without sacrificing anything. A jump from the last nonturbo 13B of 160 hp to the current level and with less emissions is a huge breakthrough. It's a better engine or more appropriately a huge improvement on an older (13B) engine.

The Renesis is a different design from the exhaust port aspect as the 13B. Then again the peripheral port race engines with their peripheral intake ports are also designs. Yes we call them 13B's but technically the Renesis is one too. It is a different design. Now to say it has a different intention is a bit curious. Each 13B was designed to power a sports car on the street and meet the emissions standards of the day. I'd say that pretty much sums up the Renesis in the RX-8 too. The last nonturbo rotary engine had far less power than the Renesis does. Even the low power Renesis engine makes more. They both do this more efficiently and with far lower emissions. The Renesis is a more powerful engine than the turbo 13B was in as late as 1992. The RX-8 may have been designed to be a practical sports car that can seat 4 people but it's still a sports car. The RX-7 was always meant to be a true classic sports car. Now when you realize that the RX-8 can outperform the first 2 generations of RX-7 quite easily, it's hard to say that it wasn't designed with the same intention. The 3rd gen RX-7 may be a more pure sports car but it isn't light years ahead of the RX-8. On a track, it wouldn't be that bad of a matchup although I'm sure the RX-7 would win. The RX-7 was a finicky driver's car. You had to be good to really get max performance out of it. The RX-8 is so well designed that the average driver can push it pretty hard. It's a much easier car to drive aggressively.

Yes the RX-8 has a different design intention than the RX-7 in some ways. Handling isn't it though and you need a good engine to aid you here. The Renesis was designed to balance out the car. This was true with the older RX-7's as well. It wasn't until the 3rd gens came out that Mazda really had a car that was supposed to be at the top of it's game on a track. They wanted that powerful midrange kick and supercar pull. The RX-8 doesn't have that but the engine is still doing the same thing it's always done in an RX series car. It's powering a true sports car as a complimentary item rather than a dominant one. I'm not really sure how I can agree with it being designed for a different intention when it's put like that. It's a sports car's powerplant.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I have heard that the Renesis' rotors are a bit thin on their faces and they tend to "perforate" at boost levels in the 18-20 psi range.

rotarygod

The Renesis rotors are thinner than the RX-7 rotors. Over the years the rotors have steadily been getting thinner and thinner in an attempt to save weight. There have been people that have dented rotors before but it's always been from severe detonation at very high boost levels. Boost alone won't do it. I've never seen anyone try to take a Renesis that high when it comes to boost.