Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Was looking at doing the peri exhaust idea a few months back . If I did it I would definitely shut off the Siamese port for the reason reddozen gave .................................. plus a few other reasons.

DAT2RTR

I didn't know that! Thanks for letting me know! Would one have to run one piece apex seals or 3mm apex seals to protect it when it crosses over the P port? I talked to a couple different shops and thats what they said. I would just like some clarification from some other people on here. Unless theres a good thread somewhere that i should read? But im not sure there would be since this seems to be more of a one off modification than most of the other mods done to this car.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

one piece seals have more to do with high RPM, and really high boost levels. Remember that all older rotaries had peripheral exhaust and some even used a 3 piece seal.

logalinipoo

I think they want to cut it for the deeper 2mm rx7 apex seals. Several people have done it with good results. The best analogy I've seen is a fence post. If its shallow it wiggles a lot and makes a big hole in the ground. If its deep they're much more stable.

But with pport it will also be less likey to break when passing the gap

Fister_Roboto

^ This. Just got a quote from Pettit and they'll machined the Renesis rotors to accept older 13B apex seals, $50/slot. Good news for me because I've got a brand new set of Rotary Aviation Super Seals begging to be used.

Also, to reiterate on the point about sealing off the center exhaust ports- absolutely yes. Seal off the other side exhaust ports too while you're at it and run strictly peripheral exhaust ports. That would simplify things so much in terms of manifold options, whether you decide to fabricate or buy an off the shelf version. Racing Beat 13B headers are inexpensive and proven. I'm probably going to either have a 2 piece long tube header fabricated or buy the one Defined Autoworks makes.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Rotary aviation seals in a high revving engine is probably a bad idea.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

Could you go into a little more detail? They're advertised as:

DAT2RTR

Ok, so, send the rotors in to be machined to accept the new apex seals, close the middle exhaust port, and perhaps all of the side exhaust ports, custom fab long tube headers. Would it be possible to keep the rest of the motor stock? Custom tuning would be needed, but shouldnt be that hard seeing as it (in my usage) would not be FI. Any ideas?

lastphaseofthis

you guys all forget what hit me in the face like a brick. the side seals will need oil, you must make the peri port housings out of MSP housings with the side oil squirters.

the housings pictured above are indeed GSL-SE housings. also i have a BNIB GSL-SE middle housing to 1. DELETE CENTER EXHAUST 2. The GSL-SE housing has the smallest and lowest port timing.
You can't use the gsl-se housings or REW housings with the water seal groove cut into them, unless you premix or add side oil squirters just like MSP housings have.

yesterday i welded a steel pipe to the steel liner of the housing in one of my early PP attempts
i'm going to make a new thread after one of these go into a car.
for the intake i use alum welded on both ends.
for the exhaust port, i'm going to weld a large aluminum tube, with an inner steel tube welded to the liner, like above. and im going to make a few different timings, one heavy over lap with them large and close togather, and one with them far away with the least overlap. go Team Wankel

VVT
the VVT effect.

I plan to run the front side exhaust, and the rear side exhaust ports and have the exhaust periports close with 38mm waste gates( two of them keeping the ports from talking to each other.( what else would seal and hold the heat?) then open the pp port at the best point...
the intake is going to be a little more, first off the motor will be a 4 port MSP, so no apv in the way of the pports. then use the stock rx8 manifold with the ssv and vdi, and adjust them depending on what the pp flow does when it opens. the intake pport will be connected to butterflies in the intake. with a sensor to tell the computer with airflow practically doubles.(the ports open)

so 3 stages of intake and 2 stage exhuast.

as for the apex seals, i have decided on a steel seal and the RA super would be a good choice IMO. i would also run the goopy rx8 as well. so far i've used nothing but oem in rx8s but they've all be stock engines. trying to sell the ones i have and buy a new shop

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

forgive me for lmao, but you ****'s so dang silly ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddozen

The problem with the center port is that it's inefficient and holds a lot of heat. If you're increasing port volume as much as you would be with the peripheral ports, why keep them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brettus

Was looking at doing the peri exhaust idea a few months back . If I did it I would definitely shut off the Siamese port for the reason reddozen gave .................................. plus a few other reasons.

​​​​​​​

lastphaseofthis

stop pretending you are ahead of us and already know the outcome.

i know the pitfall of my engines will be the amount of money i have to invest. that being said i plan to start with BRAND NEW housings, and cut and weld them. that's why i'm practicing on my spares. i will likely have to fun a few of the better spares to make sure it runs as a normal MSP engine with the pports are closed.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, from what I've seen on the 7 forum all the non oem metal seals tend to eat housings faster than stock seals. Part of the reason the rx8 seals are shorter is to keep their mass down, when rotating at 9000rpm there is quite a bit of centrifugal force pushing the seals against the housing. Longer seals that are made of harder material will put more force on the housings and will eat them up. Reving to 10k+ will just make the problem worse. Carbon or ceramic could be better choices, but as you go to higher RPMs there are a lot of unknowns. This build sounds a lot more like a disposable race car engine than a daily driver. Which is fine, if you have realistic goals for output and longevity.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

I only recommend ceramic seals for high RPMs. They're going to set you back $1k though.

DAT2RTR

This sounds like a giant pain in the ***. I suppose thats what happens when you try to reinvent the wheel.

Fister_Roboto

Do you have experience to back up this claim? Also, my build will most likely be limited to around or under 9k, hardly high revving. I've seen build with RA super seals making 500+hp and turning around 10k with zero problems.

Fister_Roboto

lastphase- To address a few things

1- Premix FTW. The OMP can suck a bowl of dicks.
2- Ignore TeamRX8, he's a blowhard.

lastphaseofthis

i'll just leave this here.

this is a side exhaust--- peripheral intake.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Nope, I have no personal experience, but there are plenty of people who do though. Making 500+ hp with "no problem", and making 500hp without tearing up the housings in 20k miles are two different things. See my comment about disposable engines.

He is a blowhard who irritates me all the time, but he has a lot of experience. Ignore him at your own peril.

lastphaseofthis

he pretends to know more then most here actually know. if there was something he knew that was important and he didn't share, well that makes him the worst kind on earth. i'm here sharing what could be one of the biggest N/s rotary break-thrus, i could have kept it to myself. but why would i? i'm not afraid of anything, even failure.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Here is a link with a bit more than the dyno:
Join5

Yes it is an impressive number, but it comes from having a tuned intake length and the PP intake. You can get some gains on the other end with a tuned exhaust. The big problem with tuning the header to this degree is that you lose performance outside of the RPM the engine is tuned for, and the dyno shows that.

Having side port and PP exhaust will hurt your scavenging and prevent you from tuning the header length because of the siamese port and because of the two (and a half) paths exhaust takes from each housing.

Also not that with all the R&D and time the Mazdatrix engine only got 264hp. Think you can get 50% more HP out of the engine and have it street-able and reliable?

lastphaseofthis

yes. from what i've seen, most other humans are not capable of what i am.

reni04

Thank you for sharing that Mazdatrix assembly .It helped me understand the difference in the reni motors.Sweet! Thx.

skc

Not sure if this has been posted here:

Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!

Very detailed photos of the whole process

reni04

Read my post then check the top of the thread this page?.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

now let's compare apples to apples by using an at the flywheel dyno, stock port Renesis built & tested by Daryl Drummond rather than some weak-*** Mazda reman at the rear wheels







forum silliness at it's best ...



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