yomomspimp06

are the oil injectors compatible? will the renesis oil injectors plumb into the older 13b housings? the renesis has multiple injectors on the housing doesn't it? it appears the older 13b housing only has 1.

Fister_Roboto

My intermediates are taking a trip to a machine shop next week for side exhaust port filling, milling, and TiN coating, I'm going to use my REW housings. As far as the OMP is concerned, if you're already that ***** deep into the build, I'd say just get rid of it all together and run premix exclusively.

lastphaseofthis

the manifold will have the other two. but thats interesting of you to point out, as that is the item that likely killed the mazdatrix car unless they premixd.

i can cut and weld-in alu piping to make peri ports, i think i can pull off adding an injector into that housing, then using a 13b middle iron( i can get rid of the two inside side exhaust ports). then the inside side seals won't need the injected oil on them and i can run the two middle and two on the front and rear

premix sounds like the easy way out.

the other problem is that the housings are from 84 13b and they have seen way better days, i'm thinking of just starting with rx8 housings, and adding exhaust ports to them.. then i can try out different exhaust opening and closing timing...

yomomspimp06

check out goopy seals. Apparently they are created renesis housings with side ports. the ports look small but seem to be machinable for the users liking

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

Such a waste of time. Adds all sorts of complexity and seemingly no benefits. Much easier to just do an REW and make more than enough power.

yomomspimp06

^I still think this build would come out cheaper than REW. Without proper documentation and real results being posted it seems like a few people should try it out to see... I think the mazdatrix car ended up being totaled, but was running well before. There is just so little info on it. REW of course is proven with results.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

I don't really see how it would be cheaper than an REW setup. Would still need a standalone to run it, still need turbo stuff, the exhaust manifold would be more complicated. You would save on a mount kit but that is a drop in the bucket for a build like that. Seems like it would be a lot more time and effort and probably close to the same amount of funds invested into a hybrid setup that won't be any better than an REW.

lastphaseofthis

to run all ports open all the time would be a waste. running the side ports and the peri ports at different times yield variable valve timing... in the same way the stock staged intake provides more valve timing by opening up more ports.
are you arguing the lack of benefits of variable valve timing.. ?

i'm the last person interesting in paying someone else abuncha money for what i can do myself. in fact the only reason i am in this game is to do everything myself. and to make a 400hp n'a 2 rotor.( which was been done) but my goal is streetablity

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

200% VE on NA?! Umm no... Even with amazingly tuned intake and exhaust headers you won't come close.

yomomspimp06

calm down harlan. he does mean with forced induction

Posted From RX8Club.com Android App

wackemandstackem

I want to see this engine built, and documented with lots of pictures. I enjoy seeing people trying new ideas out even if it may not work out. Ridiculous builds Sometimes yields great results.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

There was a semi PP with staged runners (4 port block with butterflies on the PP for a 6 port configuration) at deals gap a couple years ago that ran at 500HP+ at 16k RPMs. So it's possible for sure. It only made 200ftlb of torque though. It was originally in a hill climb car. They milled out the stat gears and rotors to press in needle bearings. I sadly don't have anymore pictures of the engine. They were on a phone that got destroyed. The EGTs were so high that they were burning the 2 stoke as fuel essentially. They said it basically ran with a blue cloud behind them at WOT. I can't remember just how high their mix was, but it was absurd. Like 60:40 or something nuts.

The renesis would have advantages over this older idea due to the better runner design and port configuration for an NA setup. All your power would be in RPMs, so I would recommend a 2 piece eshaft, but don't expect a lot of torque, or happy transmissions. Also, with all the additional heat, a renesis side seal spring probably wont survive long. It should, in theory though, still get decent gas millage and pass emissions since the PP isn't even being used till the top of the range. Hard to say till someone does it.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

At 16k rpm that output is reasonable, but 16k rpm isn't reasonable for a street car nor for long term reliability. It isn't just the internal stresses, the fuel also has to be higher octane because of how the engine burns it. Or you can add more spark plugs to a point. If it was just about header length and internal stress Mazda would have released an engine like that long ago.

lastphaseofthis

if i could afford the 2 peice shaft and ceramic seals i think 450 is possible around 11-12k. my limit will be stock seals so 9500 rpm it is. but if i can get 210-230 ft-lbs of torque then even at 7k to 9k rpm horse power will be as much as the FI renesis is good for.

yomomspimp06

^wait, so you are aiming for n/a with this build?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I can cut you a good deal on a new 2-pc e-shaft

lastphaseofthis

with boost full pp motors are good for 1000, i'm not in a position to even began to afford a setup capable of 1000 hp. at least at 350-400 na/9k rpm i can still use the stock trans.

lastphaseofthis

i don't even wanna build this motor right now! jeeez i'm trying to start turboing' a cbr 600. thats a cheaper project that i have the bike and turbo already for 190rwhp, and it will go much faster then a 400hp n/a rx8.

but if anyone else wants to build it, the 4 port auto block is the best place to start. imo. the lower manifold could be modded to add pp's and butterflies easier then the 6 port that's for sure.

also i'm doing this fc semi pp( i made the pp over kill big, but i wanna run them to see...)

there also the rotary jetski project....

and then this rx8 rebuild over chrstmas i just did LAST WEEK> 240 mles on it now...

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Well they say the best lessons are the ones hardest earned ...

Fister_Roboto

Can't disagree with you, the REW swap would be the smarter option. I can't hate a guy for trying something different though. My REW swap is taking a back seat and I'm building a hybrid Renesis/REW myself (as mentioned earlier), not because I think it'll be better, but because I think it will be sufficient. I've got aspirations to eventually V8 swap my 8 (BMW 4.0 from the E92 M3) so building that 500hp REW seems like a moot point for me. Especially considering my budget as well as priorities have changed. Planning on an FD purchase next year, so that REW will find it's home.

DAT2RTR

Ok, after doing some digging (before seeing this post) after I had heard about the Mazdatrix's REW/MSP hybrid engine. I started thinking to myself. "If that's all there is to it, why not. I could use a rebuild soon anyways" so I started calling around. Talked to a couple different shops to see what the options were.

Apparently, you can't just buy some REW housings and slap them onto a renesis motor and call it good. As many of you know, there are no coolant seal grooves cut into the REW housings. The GSL-SE housings do, however have the coolant seal grooves in them. I called Goopy today and asked about the P ported rx8 housings and they said it would be cheaper to just buy GSL-SE housings. But, after talking to a few other rotary shops, I have heard that you would need to mill out the RX-8 rotors to accept taller (wider? idk. something.) apex seals so they don't flex at high rpms and shatter by hitting the P port. Maybe switching to a once piece apex seal would help, or getting the apex seal cryo treated. I don't personally know.

I'm not sure on how much different the exhaust timing would be on that motor. I've never had a gsl-se housing next to a MSP iron before to judge how much earlier or later the exhaust valve would open. my guess is that there would be a bit of overlap to it. but, at the same time the MSP intake is variable as well. would you have to make some sort of "VVT" for the exhaust side? and if you did, it could theoretically be as simple as welding some sort of "cut out" into the pipe coming off of the P ports. that way, as your rpms go up you can have the p ports "open up."

I don't remember off the top of my head, which of the ports on the intake side of the motor are flowing first (the top or the bottom when looking at the intake ports on the iron) that's beyond my realm of knowledge at this point and time.

What I wonder, is, if you used the gsl-se housings, and all of the MSP exhaust ports and custom fabbed a header, what would be so hard about it? You need to get a custom tune done anyways. But, from my understanding, the stock rx8 intake system is rather well designed. Could this be a possible direction to go?

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

DAT2RTR,
You can have the water seal grove cut into REW housings for about $120/housing depending on who you talk to about it.

The RX8's stock intake becomes a moot point if you don't stage the peripheral intake port for after the APV.

As for the exhaust timing, I don't think you'll get it exactly in time with the stock renesis unless you cut them yourself. I'm going to make templates from my peripheral housings and cut new renesis housings. It will be easier to correct the timing from there.

I think lastphaseofthis has the right idea in this... fill in the center exhaust port if you go peripheral exhaust.

Fister_Roboto

Yup, you can get the grooves machined into REW housings for dirt cheap. Already did that lol.

DAT2RTR

@reddozen & Fister Roboto, i wasnt sure about how much of a PITA it would be to have that done.
When i was thinking of it, i wouldnt be using peripheral Intake ports. Just peripheral Exhaust ports. Is filling in the center exhaust port a requirement? or would it just make it easier to fab up a manifold for everything? Seeing as there isnt a ton of room to ad more pipe where the header runs on the rx8.

Unless im wrong in assuming that the REW or GSL-SE only had peripheral exhaust ports, not peripheral intake ports?

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

The problem with the center port is that it's inefficient and holds a lot of heat. If you're increasing port volume as much as you would be with the peripheral ports, why keep them?