Satisfaction with turbo mods
07-03-2007, 09:14 AM
#52
Registered
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pueblo
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right there with ya. Mine turbo is getting installed as we speak but I've gotten some additional stuff to help in cooling.
Koyo Radiator
Setrab Oil Coolers x2 (each is about twice the size as stock) with custom ducting to Mazdaspeed front nose
Larger intercooler
custom head shield wrapping around around coolant lines and oil line running to turbo
Mazsport Intake for GReddy turbo kit
I spoke with my installer for hours about all the details of FI before deciding to do so. They've done a ton or work for 20 years on rotary cars. They analyzed a number of blown 13B engines that were boosted and 9 out of 10 times the single issue was heat/charge temps to the engine. So the goal is to keep it as cool as possible under the hood and in the pipes.
Koyo Radiator
Setrab Oil Coolers x2 (each is about twice the size as stock) with custom ducting to Mazdaspeed front nose
Larger intercooler
custom head shield wrapping around around coolant lines and oil line running to turbo
Mazsport Intake for GReddy turbo kit
I spoke with my installer for hours about all the details of FI before deciding to do so. They've done a ton or work for 20 years on rotary cars. They analyzed a number of blown 13B engines that were boosted and 9 out of 10 times the single issue was heat/charge temps to the engine. So the goal is to keep it as cool as possible under the hood and in the pipes.
A larger intercooler may not be the route you want to take to keep the car from overheating. That will leave less air for the radiator. I would use a water sprayer for those hot days to keep the IC or the radiator cooler. Also, a vented hood is another good idea to allow the heat to escape. I'd just buy a carbon fiber hood with vents and swap it on before track events.
07-03-2007, 09:46 PM
#53
Downhill Touge FTW!!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buena Park
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So since a few turbo people are gathered can we get a general consensus on whp/wtq b4 tuning and after....
also I see alot of mid 200's in turbo peoples sig...and i was wondering how many people are closer to 300whp and ur turbo choices
also I see alot of mid 200's in turbo peoples sig...and i was wondering how many people are closer to 300whp and ur turbo choices
07-09-2007, 09:45 AM
#55
I will forever miss my 8!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern Kentucky / Cincinnati
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
something bothers me some.....
Why did mazda really gave up turbos for the rotary!?
I mean, yeah ok... they fucked up the reliability of the last RX7... but wasnt it because if was quiet easy to mod it?
I mean people bought the Rx7 and the first thing they did was mod it for insane power... and when the engine blowed up then they blamed mazda!
Now I look at the Renesis and find it so hard to get any extra power out of it!!
did mazda do this in purpose?
any thoughts on that?
Why did mazda really gave up turbos for the rotary!?
I mean, yeah ok... they fucked up the reliability of the last RX7... but wasnt it because if was quiet easy to mod it?
I mean people bought the Rx7 and the first thing they did was mod it for insane power... and when the engine blowed up then they blamed mazda!
Now I look at the Renesis and find it so hard to get any extra power out of it!!
did mazda do this in purpose?
any thoughts on that?
07-09-2007, 09:55 AM
#56
I mean people bought the Rx7 and the first thing they did was mod it for insane power... and when the engine blowed up then they blamed mazda!
Now I look at the Renesis and find it so hard to get any extra power out of it!!
did mazda do this in purpose?
any thoughts on that?
Now I look at the Renesis and find it so hard to get any extra power out of it!!
did mazda do this in purpose?
any thoughts on that?
If you wanted it to be easy to get power gains, you're essentually asking for mazda to not optimize the car. Would you prefer the Rx-8 to come with 150 hp?
07-09-2007, 02:19 PM
#57
Registered
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: los angeles, ca
Posts: 1,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i thought it was because in general americans didnt know how to maintain turbo cars, especially rotarys, that mazda was getting overwhelmed by warranty claims and law suits
07-09-2007, 05:01 PM
#58
I will forever miss my 8!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern Kentucky / Cincinnati
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but What I am currious about is that our engines make about 170-190 Hp in reality not 238!!
why did they originally advertised as 250 hp back in 03?
I feel like Mazda rushed the rotary engine back to the market with a purpose that isnt really clear!!
where they trying to recover that lost Faith in the rotary engine from the public? is that why they made it N/A!
In comparation with the previous engine, this engine's ECU controls everything in this car. So It freaks out for the most minimal mod.........
Dont get me wrong. I think this Engine in theory should be one of the modern wonders of the world.
I am just kind of thinking here what to expect Next.....
thats all!
Last edited by steven000e; 07-09-2007 at 05:05 PM.
07-09-2007, 05:07 PM
#59
^ You are starting crap that has been discussed to death before on this forum.
Car companies give you engine horse power (at the crank). When we modify our cars, we talk about power to the wheels. Drivetrain loss is to be expected.
Car companies give you engine horse power (at the crank). When we modify our cars, we talk about power to the wheels. Drivetrain loss is to be expected.
07-21-2007, 01:29 AM
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada ---> Australia
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I hate to be the contrarian here but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't. Basically I was one of the first to get the kit, and the Greddy was a very bare bones (at the time). The term bolt on is a fallacy. Basically pulled the fuel management for something far better, got a lot of accesories to improve the reliability, & had it tuned by some of the best tuners in the country (& was running it at 6.5 psi because the wastegate spring was defective) & it still blew the engine. There are some mitigating circumstances as the 04's had a problem with the engine so I don't know if that might have been a contributing factor. Also the original kits had the EManage Blue which was dog ****, the EManage Ultimate is supposedly better, not to mention Greddy has corrected some of the problems the initial version had. If you think you are getting into it for just the cost of the kit & the install don't even think about it. Set aside a good $5000+.
If I had to do it all over again I probably would have done the 55 shot Zex nitrous kit (& had it tuned).
Or just stepped up (which wasn't available then) to the Mazsport kit which is twice the kit the Greddy is.
I loved the feel of the extra power when the kit was on. Truly I wish the RX8 came like that from the factory, but the kit was just a mess & compromised the reliability of the car which when it breaksdown becomes the #1 priority (i.e. pain in the ***) to you.
If I had to do it all over again I probably would have done the 55 shot Zex nitrous kit (& had it tuned).
Or just stepped up (which wasn't available then) to the Mazsport kit which is twice the kit the Greddy is.
I loved the feel of the extra power when the kit was on. Truly I wish the RX8 came like that from the factory, but the kit was just a mess & compromised the reliability of the car which when it breaksdown becomes the #1 priority (i.e. pain in the ***) to you.
A NA engine boosted can be just as reliable as the engine NA. My previous car was NA, I had a procharger on it, it ran BETTER with the procharger on as I was able to get a better a/f as it ran pig rich from the factory, I got better fuel milage (when I wasn't romping in boost). I don't see how it would be different in the rotary.
As many a kit has proven the rx8's rotary can handle 350whp (as long as it's properly tuned) and people have done the proper external modifications to support it.
Now to the people who think boost is just as easy as slapping on a kit. Unless if the kit comes with something that's REALLY good pretuned (ie ecu reflash, good piggy back with preset maps) you need to spend money on tuning. Boost gauge is important to make sure you are not over boosting. Then you need a wideband O2 sensor, a good one that uses NTK sensors, not bosch, so something like FJO racing would work, not the junk innovate or AEM sells. (I killed Bosch wideband sensors on my last car) Then you might want to monitor your EGR temps. From my reading up with the rotary, you'd most likely want to get the HKS twin power ignition upgrade, and at least the upgraded coils from 2006. Then if you wanted to be excessive something like a knock-link sensor, to monitor knock, and if you are turboed, you should really be using an electronic boost controller, with a low psi spring in the waste gate, then if you detect knock, you can turn down the boost (and if you use an AVC-R, you can turn down the boost in certain gears) Not to mention you want to go overboard on fuel, making sure your fuel system is up to snuff will save your engine.
Then with the rotary there are lots of other toys I've been reading about that help with reliability.
Now the above is just my experience, but if I were to boost any NA car this would be something I'd do, reliability is #1, why take any chances, I don't want to worry.
07-21-2007, 02:47 AM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 3,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd like to know what issues the 2004 engines had =/ (from what I've been reading the only difference between the 2004 and 2005 models are: Different motor mounts, and switch blade key style for 05s, everything else was fixed in recalls) as far as I can tell as well it's the Greddy kit that needs the 'fixes' and after seeing some greddy kits for other cars I'd personally would avoid them, I would imagine that would of caused your engine to blow, not some 'issue with the 2004 engines'
A NA engine boosted can be just as reliable as the engine NA. My previous car was NA, I had a procharger on it, it ran BETTER with the procharger on as I was able to get a better a/f as it ran pig rich from the factory, I got better fuel milage (when I wasn't romping in boost). I don't see how it would be different in the rotary.
As many a kit has proven the rx8's rotary can handle 350whp (as long as it's properly tuned) and people have done the proper external modifications to support it.
Now to the people who think boost is just as easy as slapping on a kit. Unless if the kit comes with something that's REALLY good pretuned (ie ecu reflash, good piggy back with preset maps) you need to spend money on tuning. Boost gauge is important to make sure you are not over boosting. Then you need a wideband O2 sensor, a good one that uses NTK sensors, not bosch, so something like FJO racing would work, not the junk innovate or AEM sells. (I killed Bosch wideband sensors on my last car) Then you might want to monitor your EGR temps. From my reading up with the rotary, you'd most likely want to get the HKS twin power ignition upgrade, and at least the upgraded coils from 2006. Then if you wanted to be excessive something like a knock-link sensor, to monitor knock, and if you are turboed, you should really be using an electronic boost controller, with a low psi spring in the waste gate, then if you detect knock, you can turn down the boost (and if you use an AVC-R, you can turn down the boost in certain gears) Not to mention you want to go overboard on fuel, making sure your fuel system is up to snuff will save your engine.
Then with the rotary there are lots of other toys I've been reading about that help with reliability.
Now the above is just my experience, but if I were to boost any NA car this would be something I'd do, reliability is #1, why take any chances, I don't want to worry.
A NA engine boosted can be just as reliable as the engine NA. My previous car was NA, I had a procharger on it, it ran BETTER with the procharger on as I was able to get a better a/f as it ran pig rich from the factory, I got better fuel milage (when I wasn't romping in boost). I don't see how it would be different in the rotary.
As many a kit has proven the rx8's rotary can handle 350whp (as long as it's properly tuned) and people have done the proper external modifications to support it.
Now to the people who think boost is just as easy as slapping on a kit. Unless if the kit comes with something that's REALLY good pretuned (ie ecu reflash, good piggy back with preset maps) you need to spend money on tuning. Boost gauge is important to make sure you are not over boosting. Then you need a wideband O2 sensor, a good one that uses NTK sensors, not bosch, so something like FJO racing would work, not the junk innovate or AEM sells. (I killed Bosch wideband sensors on my last car) Then you might want to monitor your EGR temps. From my reading up with the rotary, you'd most likely want to get the HKS twin power ignition upgrade, and at least the upgraded coils from 2006. Then if you wanted to be excessive something like a knock-link sensor, to monitor knock, and if you are turboed, you should really be using an electronic boost controller, with a low psi spring in the waste gate, then if you detect knock, you can turn down the boost (and if you use an AVC-R, you can turn down the boost in certain gears) Not to mention you want to go overboard on fuel, making sure your fuel system is up to snuff will save your engine.
Then with the rotary there are lots of other toys I've been reading about that help with reliability.
Now the above is just my experience, but if I were to boost any NA car this would be something I'd do, reliability is #1, why take any chances, I don't want to worry.
Widespread rumors that the apex seals on the 04's were failing at a higher rate than other years. Some have held up, some haven't. Just as you have some voltage irregularities product quality/specifications might have been a bit loose.
I agree with you on the Greddy kits. I was probably one of the first 5-10 kits in the country. Actually Greddy screwed up so badly that when we ran the car the first time on the dyno we almost blew it up as we found out immediately afterwards that the first batch of Greddy Emanages sent with the kit literally did not have the program on it !!! We had to pull it and sent it to Greddy to get flashed. After that the tune was so poor that I got my mechanic the Support Tool & he further tuned it from there. Though even with the best he could do I still had backfire issues.
I never boosted over 6.5 psi as my wastegate spring was found defective, and my travails to get another one with Greddy have been told on this board. In terms of supporting products, I had upgraded the injectors, went to a far better engine management product, got a top of the line boost controller (HKS EVC), & gotten it tuned by one of the best companies in the country (SP Engineering). On top of that I had upgraded my radiator (given the issues the previous gen had), upgraded to silicon hoses, gotten the top of the line BOV, gotten a C02 system for my IC, gotten 1 step colder plugs, etc. About the only thing I didn't do was get the Racing Beat OMP mod. Should have done, couldn't have hurt.
When my engine went was when all the ignition coil issues were coming to light. If I had to do it today I would definitely get new coils, and I have the HKS ignition system on my car now.
So needless to say I tried to take "some" precautions on this car, and make it as bulletproof as possible short of tearing apart the engine. Looking back I definitely should have waited for the massive kinks to get worked out, and/or waited for the Mazsport kit.
07-21-2007, 09:52 AM
#64
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada ---> Australia
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Widespread rumors that the apex seals on the 04's were failing at a higher rate than other years. Some have held up, some haven't. Just as you have some voltage irregularities product quality/specifications might have been a bit loose.
I agree with you on the Greddy kits. I was probably one of the first 5-10 kits in the country. Actually Greddy screwed up so badly that when we ran the car the first time on the dyno we almost blew it up as we found out immediately afterwards that the first batch of Greddy Emanages sent with the kit literally did not have the program on it !!! We had to pull it and sent it to Greddy to get flashed. After that the tune was so poor that I got my mechanic the Support Tool & he further tuned it from there. Though even with the best he could do I still had backfire issues.
I never boosted over 6.5 psi as my wastegate spring was found defective, and my travails to get another one with Greddy have been told on this board. In terms of supporting products, I had upgraded the injectors, went to a far better engine management product, got a top of the line boost controller (HKS EVC), & gotten it tuned by one of the best companies in the country (SP Engineering). On top of that I had upgraded my radiator (given the issues the previous gen had), upgraded to silicon hoses, gotten the top of the line BOV, gotten a C02 system for my IC, gotten 1 step colder plugs, etc. About the only thing I didn't do was get the Racing Beat OMP mod. Should have done, couldn't have hurt.
When my engine went was when all the ignition coil issues were coming to light. If I had to do it today I would definitely get new coils, and I have the HKS ignition system on my car now.
So needless to say I tried to take "some" precautions on this car, and make it as bulletproof as possible short of tearing apart the engine. Looking back I definitely should have waited for the massive kinks to get worked out, and/or waited for the Mazsport kit.
I agree with you on the Greddy kits. I was probably one of the first 5-10 kits in the country. Actually Greddy screwed up so badly that when we ran the car the first time on the dyno we almost blew it up as we found out immediately afterwards that the first batch of Greddy Emanages sent with the kit literally did not have the program on it !!! We had to pull it and sent it to Greddy to get flashed. After that the tune was so poor that I got my mechanic the Support Tool & he further tuned it from there. Though even with the best he could do I still had backfire issues.
I never boosted over 6.5 psi as my wastegate spring was found defective, and my travails to get another one with Greddy have been told on this board. In terms of supporting products, I had upgraded the injectors, went to a far better engine management product, got a top of the line boost controller (HKS EVC), & gotten it tuned by one of the best companies in the country (SP Engineering). On top of that I had upgraded my radiator (given the issues the previous gen had), upgraded to silicon hoses, gotten the top of the line BOV, gotten a C02 system for my IC, gotten 1 step colder plugs, etc. About the only thing I didn't do was get the Racing Beat OMP mod. Should have done, couldn't have hurt.
When my engine went was when all the ignition coil issues were coming to light. If I had to do it today I would definitely get new coils, and I have the HKS ignition system on my car now.
So needless to say I tried to take "some" precautions on this car, and make it as bulletproof as possible short of tearing apart the engine. Looking back I definitely should have waited for the massive kinks to get worked out, and/or waited for the Mazsport kit.
Looking at the sticky above, almost everyone there is a 2004 with lots of miles on the car and running strong. As well searching through the forums, many boosted are 04 models.
Other than that I agree with you on everything else, most likely the combination of the greddy 'kit' and the coil packs.
*edit* after readin some more it seems that mazda fixed this 'apex seals' with a reflash which let more oil into the chambers, because it wasn't delivering enough at low rpms thus killing the seals.
Last edited by Daemos; 07-21-2007 at 10:16 AM.
07-22-2007, 06:17 PM
#65
Apexing at Oak Tree
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Blue, Educated State in the North
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-23-2007, 06:10 PM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
keep in mind there are various degrees of power from the turbo too.
for example, stock greddy at 6 psi is nice, but it's quite a bit nicer at 9-11 psi.
consider the difference between stock @ 180 whp, 120 tq vs turbo @ 290 whp, 230 tq. If you can't imagine that being worthwhile...
for example, stock greddy at 6 psi is nice, but it's quite a bit nicer at 9-11 psi.
consider the difference between stock @ 180 whp, 120 tq vs turbo @ 290 whp, 230 tq. If you can't imagine that being worthwhile...
what turbo has done that? most the high end turbos i've seen have capabilities but haven't shown it yet
07-23-2007, 06:13 PM
#67
What are you talking about? I mentioned it was the greddy turbo in my post. If you want hard evidence, look at the dyno comparison thread. Greddy is the smallest turbo kit available for the RX-8, and it has real world gains of 100 whp and 100 lb/ft torque.
08-18-2007, 09:27 AM
#68
Tailgaters beware
You would be lucky to get the to car making 175 lbs and torque = acceleration.
You can make 400 hp and have 150 lbs of torque and your car will be a turd, you'll have stock Neon srt4's spanking you all day. Our HP may be close to the 95 rx-7 but the torque the turbo's gave it make it eat the rx8 up.
I have a friend that put a 60 mm turbo on his stock 93 5.0 mustang, it only had 7,500 miles, mint car... with 12 psi and 93 octane he's making 433 rwhp and 571 lbs, he raced his neighbors 03 cobra with pulley, exhaust and ecu tuned making 525 hp but less torque than that (because sc'd not turbo'd) and he fly's by him effortlessly.
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/199...%20Howland.htm
Just for turbo ability info, the same mustang when he runs race fuel @ 16 psi the car dyno'd at 509 rwhp and 626 lbs with a 15% loss from tranny a stock 5.0 liter making 735 flywheel torque. The car runs 11.2's with traction problems and having to get out of it to avoid hitting the guard rail, he also has to granny shift it with a Tremec. I have a picture of the drivers wheel coming off the ground 2 inches. Do that with an N/A without rebuilding the entire motor and not being streetable in any way. With a turbo you can drive normal and stay out of boost and then go crazy with it when you want.
His numbers are crazy and he did break everything (axle, drive shaft, tranny) and replaced it as he went along but, the only thing that went with his motor was head gasket so he put in a metal one and its been fine for 3 years now. Turbo is where you can make big motor power with a smaller motor.
Last edited by Rocketman1976; 08-26-2007 at 02:18 PM.
08-27-2007, 12:12 AM
#70
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 3,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No question I would do the Mazsport unit. Greddy wouldn't even be a consideration. I was one of the first to have that kit. It was a decent kit for the price, but looking back if I had the choice then that we have now, no question it would have been to save up & get the Mazsport kit or I would have done nitrous.
08-27-2007, 05:22 PM
#71
Tailgaters beware
No question I would do the Mazsport unit. Greddy wouldn't even be a consideration. I was one of the first to have that kit. It was a decent kit for the price, but looking back if I had the choice then that we have now, no question it would have been to save up & get the Mazsport kit or I would have done nitrous.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post