Rotor Master Procharger! I like the sound of this!!!
07-06-2006, 04:25 PM
#26
RX8 and a Truk....
What the fock?
http://www.dnamotorsport.com/ProChar...ster_RX8_1.jpg
Look at that....
100% STOCK with 98 octane Fuel. So, in real-world conditions - say, with 92 Octane we'd see half that gain? 2/3?
No idea what gear that pull was in; 4th? does 4th gear end ~ 110mph?
what kinda broke-*** RX8 dynos at 150whp? What scale is going up the right side? It's labelled 'pounds' but clearly not lbs-ft. What were the conditions of the before and after run?
How about showing that dyno plot with GOOD data to provide a frame of reference?
http://www.dnamotorsport.com/ProChar...ster_RX8_1.jpg
Look at that....
100% STOCK with 98 octane Fuel. So, in real-world conditions - say, with 92 Octane we'd see half that gain? 2/3?
No idea what gear that pull was in; 4th? does 4th gear end ~ 110mph?
what kinda broke-*** RX8 dynos at 150whp? What scale is going up the right side? It's labelled 'pounds' but clearly not lbs-ft. What were the conditions of the before and after run?
How about showing that dyno plot with GOOD data to provide a frame of reference?
07-06-2006, 04:47 PM
#28
kWh is how we measure / pay for our electricity usage - kilo-Watt Hours
That graph does say HP. It might be a bit low, but that is the ball park of what our modern electronically controlled chassis dynos measure here. Albeit this one looks towards the lower end.
Our 98 Octane fuel is more correctly termed 98 RON. You guys use PON = (RON+MON) / 2
Cheers,
Hymee.
That graph does say HP. It might be a bit low, but that is the ball park of what our modern electronically controlled chassis dynos measure here. Albeit this one looks towards the lower end.
Our 98 Octane fuel is more correctly termed 98 RON. You guys use PON = (RON+MON) / 2
Cheers,
Hymee.
07-06-2006, 04:49 PM
#29
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by Hymee
That graph does say HP. It might be a bit low, but that is the ball park of what our modern electronically controlled chassis dynos measure here. Albeit this one looks towards the lower end.
Our 98 Octane fuel is more correctly termed 98 RON. You guys use PON = (RON+MON) / 2
Cheers,
Hymee.
Our 98 Octane fuel is more correctly termed 98 RON. You guys use PON = (RON+MON) / 2
Cheers,
Hymee.
07-06-2006, 04:52 PM
#30
Originally Posted by dmp
Should I stop being lazy and just search google?
Then you can post your findings, and help others learn
But that should be for another thread - not this one. I'm sure it has even been discussed in this place...Cheers,
Hymee.
07-06-2006, 05:00 PM
#31
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by Hymee
Yes
Then you can post your findings, and help others learn But that should be for another thread - not this one. I'm sure it has even been discussed in this place...
Cheers,
Hymee.
Then you can post your findings, and help others learn
But that should be for another thread - not this one. I'm sure it has even been discussed in this place...Cheers,
Hymee.
07-06-2006, 07:20 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Hymee
Brettus,
All you need to do is leave the fuel and timing adjustments at 0% at all of the load points (RPM/TPS) where closed loop is in operation. This can be determined 2 ways - using a scan tool (such as the obvious
) or watching the Lambda.
Cheers,
Hymee.
All you need to do is leave the fuel and timing adjustments at 0% at all of the load points (RPM/TPS) where closed loop is in operation. This can be determined 2 ways - using a scan tool (such as the obvious
) or watching the Lambda.Cheers,
Hymee.
07-06-2006, 08:50 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by dmp
100% STOCK with 98 octane Fuel. So, in real-world conditions - say, with 92 Octane we'd see half that gain? 2/3?
No idea what gear that pull was in; 4th? does 4th gear end ~ 110mph?
what kinda broke-*** RX8 dynos at 150whp? What scale is going up the right side? It's labelled 'pounds' but clearly not lbs-ft. What were the conditions of the before and after run?
How about showing that dyno plot with GOOD data to provide a frame of reference?
No idea what gear that pull was in; 4th? does 4th gear end ~ 110mph?
what kinda broke-*** RX8 dynos at 150whp? What scale is going up the right side? It's labelled 'pounds' but clearly not lbs-ft. What were the conditions of the before and after run?
How about showing that dyno plot with GOOD data to provide a frame of reference?
2. This was dynoed in 4th gear.
3. This particular RX-8 had 156rwhp stock. Despite all the dyno charts we see from you guys in the US showing 170-180rwhp, we measure around 155-165rwhp. We believe this is due to ‘different brands’ of dynos. We use a Dyno Dynamics Chassis Dynamometer.
We look for the “percentage power gain” rather than “absolute rwhp”. This particular car made 71% more power. (Stock 156rwhp, with ProCharger 267rwhp).
We don’t bother with torque figures. The dyno does NOT measure torque. It measures ‘tractive effort’ which is measured in Newtons (N) or Pounds (lb). Here is a simple way to think about the torque increase. The “power” figure you see is proportional to “torque” the engine now makes. So if the power has gone up by 71%, so has the torque.
Here is a ‘real’ dyno chart from a recent customer. The red line shows stock power (max 159rwhp). It now makes 75% more power.
07-28-2006, 04:32 PM
#36
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I just sent them a email. On ATI's site they have the C2 rated to 80,000 RPM's which would make it a perfect candidate for the high rpm attributes of the rotary. If they offer different pulley sizes this would be rather interesting mated up with a decent EMS.
08-01-2006, 01:16 PM
#37
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Here is their response to my question:
stage 1 6psi 250rwhp
stage 2 8psi 275rwhp (includes injectors and extractors)
we do have a race kit which has made 292rwhp @ 10psi
Thank You from your friends at DNA
DNA Motorsport
Unit 13, 38-44 Elizabeth Street,
Wetherill Park, NSW 2164
Australia
I'm still waiting for them to get back with me on details of the race kit. I know the C2 trim they are using can handle a lot. I would like to see their tourque numbers with the race kit.
stage 1 6psi 250rwhp
stage 2 8psi 275rwhp (includes injectors and extractors)
we do have a race kit which has made 292rwhp @ 10psi
Thank You from your friends at DNA
DNA Motorsport
Unit 13, 38-44 Elizabeth Street,
Wetherill Park, NSW 2164
Australia
I'm still waiting for them to get back with me on details of the race kit. I know the C2 trim they are using can handle a lot. I would like to see their tourque numbers with the race kit.
08-01-2006, 06:43 PM
#38
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we have seen same if not better # from greddy + interx + scott.. in his video he made 294 at like 12 psi.... the dyno shown goes to 14 psi and only 279 also it is about 9k .. not for me ..
08-01-2006, 07:09 PM
#39
If you read DNA's post you would see that you can add about 15 hp to that no. to bring it into line with US dynos . I believe what he is saying - all tests done down this way confirm it.
279+15 = 294whp with no lag - not too shabby !
and 279 was at 8 PSI not 14
279+15 = 294whp with no lag - not too shabby !
and 279 was at 8 PSI not 14
Last edited by Brettus; 08-01-2006 at 07:14 PM.
08-01-2006, 07:58 PM
#40
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ProCharger Systems
Yes, 279 was at 8 PSI not 14, as Brettus already clarified. Thanks Brettus. Good to see some people actually taking the time to understand what they are reading before deciding to write about it.
One of the reasons we don't like to quote 'absolute' HP numbers is because of this type of mis-understanding. We specify 'percentage gain' for this very reason.
As I said before this car made 75% more power than stock. So if your car in the USA makes XXX rwhp stock, then this kit should make 75% more. That should give a number over 300
At 10psi we have made 85% gain (292rwhp). This is considered a race kit and no warranty is provided.
As you can see the kit can be tailored to make 60% - 85% more power as the customer needs. Most of our customers want reliable daily driveable cars rather than high powered cars, which is the aim of our kit. It is possible to extract more power if desired.
Instead of trying to compare 'numbers' from Greddy to this, you should drive a ProCharged car, to see that it is nothing like the way Greddy drives.
One of the reasons we don't like to quote 'absolute' HP numbers is because of this type of mis-understanding. We specify 'percentage gain' for this very reason.
As I said before this car made 75% more power than stock. So if your car in the USA makes XXX rwhp stock, then this kit should make 75% more. That should give a number over 300
At 10psi we have made 85% gain (292rwhp). This is considered a race kit and no warranty is provided.
As you can see the kit can be tailored to make 60% - 85% more power as the customer needs. Most of our customers want reliable daily driveable cars rather than high powered cars, which is the aim of our kit. It is possible to extract more power if desired.
Instead of trying to compare 'numbers' from Greddy to this, you should drive a ProCharged car, to see that it is nothing like the way Greddy drives.
08-01-2006, 09:57 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by dnaMotorsport
Yes, 279 was at 8 PSI not 14, as Brettus already clarified. Thanks Brettus. Good to see some people actually taking the time to understand what they are reading before deciding to write about it.
One of the reasons we don't like to quote 'absolute' HP numbers is because of this type of mis-understanding. We specify 'percentage gain' for this very reason.
As I said before this car made 75% more power than stock. So if your car in the USA makes XXX rwhp stock, then this kit should make 75% more. That should give a number over 300
At 10psi we have made 85% gain (292rwhp). This is considered a race kit and no warranty is provided.
As you can see the kit can be tailored to make 60% - 85% more power as the customer needs. Most of our customers want reliable daily driveable cars rather than high powered cars, which is the aim of our kit. It is possible to extract more power if desired.
Instead of trying to compare 'numbers' from Greddy to this, you should drive a ProCharged car, to see that it is nothing like the way Greddy drives.
One of the reasons we don't like to quote 'absolute' HP numbers is because of this type of mis-understanding. We specify 'percentage gain' for this very reason.
As I said before this car made 75% more power than stock. So if your car in the USA makes XXX rwhp stock, then this kit should make 75% more. That should give a number over 300
At 10psi we have made 85% gain (292rwhp). This is considered a race kit and no warranty is provided.
As you can see the kit can be tailored to make 60% - 85% more power as the customer needs. Most of our customers want reliable daily driveable cars rather than high powered cars, which is the aim of our kit. It is possible to extract more power if desired.
Instead of trying to compare 'numbers' from Greddy to this, you should drive a ProCharged car, to see that it is nothing like the way Greddy drives.
Major differences?
Pros and Cons of each?
Overall impressions of each?
08-01-2006, 10:23 PM
#42
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by Brettus
279+15 = 294whp with no lag - not too shabby !
08-01-2006, 11:22 PM
#43
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The Greddy car we looked at was over 2 years ago. Initial impression of the Greddy was good, considering there was nothing else to buy as a ‘kit’. It made mild power increase of approximately 35% - 40% more than stock and it drove nicely. It was a nice increase for mid range but power falls off as the revs rise.
Joe’s (Rotormaster) own turbo kit made more power, so we weren’t that impressed with the Greddy. Anyway Joe wasn’t happy with his own kit, so he decided to use ProCharger. ProCharger makes the power without losing the ‘character’ of the high revving Renesis which was very important.
ProCharger drives just like the stock Renesis but with a lot more power and torque throughout the rev-range. There is no sudden power surge you get with the turbo, which is ideal for daily driving and reliability, as this is easier on the rest of the driveline too. If sudden power surge IS what you want, then turbo is what you need.
Most people say the problem with the RX-8 is lack of low down power and torque. We like to think that Renesis is under powered for a wonderfully balanced chassis. So adding turbo or supercharger just to increase the low or mid range is a wasting that wonderful balance of the RX-8 chassis. It needs power all the way to the red line. Everyone who has driven the ProCharged RX-8 love the strong linear power delivery and instantly forget about any lack of low down power. You can see this in the dyno chart.
That's actually not a bad way to put it.
Joe’s (Rotormaster) own turbo kit made more power, so we weren’t that impressed with the Greddy. Anyway Joe wasn’t happy with his own kit, so he decided to use ProCharger. ProCharger makes the power without losing the ‘character’ of the high revving Renesis which was very important.
ProCharger drives just like the stock Renesis but with a lot more power and torque throughout the rev-range. There is no sudden power surge you get with the turbo, which is ideal for daily driving and reliability, as this is easier on the rest of the driveline too. If sudden power surge IS what you want, then turbo is what you need.
Most people say the problem with the RX-8 is lack of low down power and torque. We like to think that Renesis is under powered for a wonderfully balanced chassis. So adding turbo or supercharger just to increase the low or mid range is a wasting that wonderful balance of the RX-8 chassis. It needs power all the way to the red line. Everyone who has driven the ProCharged RX-8 love the strong linear power delivery and instantly forget about any lack of low down power. You can see this in the dyno chart.
Originally Posted by therm8
It allows for a docile street driver with lots of power available if you want it.
08-02-2006, 12:51 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by dnaMotorsport
The Greddy car we looked at was over 2 years ago. Initial impression of the Greddy was good, considering there was nothing else to buy as a ‘kit’. It made mild power increase of approximately 35% - 40% more than stock and it drove nicely. It was a nice increase for mid range but power falls off as the revs rise.
Joe’s (Rotormaster) own turbo kit made more power, so we weren’t that impressed with the Greddy. Anyway Joe wasn’t happy with his own kit, so he decided to use ProCharger. ProCharger makes the power without losing the ‘character’ of the high revving Renesis which was very important.
ProCharger drives just like the stock Renesis but with a lot more power and torque throughout the rev-range. There is no sudden power surge you get with the turbo, which is ideal for daily driving and reliability, as this is easier on the rest of the driveline too. If sudden power surge IS what you want, then turbo is what you need.
Most people say the problem with the RX-8 is lack of low down power and torque. We like to think that Renesis is under powered for a wonderfully balanced chassis. So adding turbo or supercharger just to increase the low or mid range is a wasting that wonderful balance of the RX-8 chassis. It needs power all the way to the red line. Everyone who has driven the ProCharged RX-8 love the strong linear power delivery and instantly forget about any lack of low down power. You can see this in the dyno chart.
That's actually not a bad way to put it.
Joe’s (Rotormaster) own turbo kit made more power, so we weren’t that impressed with the Greddy. Anyway Joe wasn’t happy with his own kit, so he decided to use ProCharger. ProCharger makes the power without losing the ‘character’ of the high revving Renesis which was very important.
ProCharger drives just like the stock Renesis but with a lot more power and torque throughout the rev-range. There is no sudden power surge you get with the turbo, which is ideal for daily driving and reliability, as this is easier on the rest of the driveline too. If sudden power surge IS what you want, then turbo is what you need.
Most people say the problem with the RX-8 is lack of low down power and torque. We like to think that Renesis is under powered for a wonderfully balanced chassis. So adding turbo or supercharger just to increase the low or mid range is a wasting that wonderful balance of the RX-8 chassis. It needs power all the way to the red line. Everyone who has driven the ProCharged RX-8 love the strong linear power delivery and instantly forget about any lack of low down power. You can see this in the dyno chart.
That's actually not a bad way to put it.
08-02-2006, 03:30 AM
#45
never give up
Sorry for bugging in....
I would like to ask some questions: The kit is delivered in Europe? Do you take into account the different climates in other countries when tuning the EMS? Or it has base maps which we could alter acoording to our needs?
The EMS could drive a third injector (considering I have the european version of low power 8 with 5spd MT which has two injectors) or are we restricted to only add two bigger injectors?
Can you post some data regarding temp of incoming air in the motor, and generally how you handle high temps? What else would you suggest as peripherals to add greater reliability to the motor? Bigger radiator, water injection etc?
Thanks for your time!
I would like to ask some questions: The kit is delivered in Europe? Do you take into account the different climates in other countries when tuning the EMS? Or it has base maps which we could alter acoording to our needs?
The EMS could drive a third injector (considering I have the european version of low power 8 with 5spd MT which has two injectors) or are we restricted to only add two bigger injectors?
Can you post some data regarding temp of incoming air in the motor, and generally how you handle high temps? What else would you suggest as peripherals to add greater reliability to the motor? Bigger radiator, water injection etc?
Thanks for your time!
08-06-2006, 08:34 PM
#49
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The difference down low with and without the ProCharger is negligible. What you see in the dyno chart ‘down low’ is due to different rates of ‘ramping’ by the dyno operator.
Driving the car shows no noticeable difference at very low speeds / very low revs. See Timbo’s and Revolver’s comments when they actually drove the car. https://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1214
Driving the car shows no noticeable difference at very low speeds / very low revs. See Timbo’s and Revolver’s comments when they actually drove the car. https://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1214