blackenedwings

I've begun making some modifications to my '05 Shinka, and I'm seriously considering FI with a turbo-kit. I am however not parts savy enough to feel comfortable installing the kit myself, so I'm interested in the total costs associated with getting a turbo kit installed. I've heard qualified shops can take an existing kit and do the install for $900-1100, but I haven't heard if that includes tuning it once the parts are bolted on. Also, what components will I have to upgrade on my car before I consider getting the kit installed? Will I need an ignition upgrade if I'm going for a relatively mild boost?

I'm not looking for an insane amount of boost, or tuning my A/F ratio to the max, I'm more concerned with getting a jump in torque/rwhp while not blowing my engine to pieces. With that goal in mind, what is the most reliable (safest for the engine) turbo available? Once I have selected the turbo-kit that I want, how long does it normally take a professional installer to get a kit up and running? My RX8 is my daily driver, so I don't want to be without it for too long if I can avoid it.

I've done a good amount of reading in the FI forum here, and I have to say I'm a bit nervous about getting a turbo dropped in my RX8 because I simply don't know as much about tuning and working on the car as most of the folks on here. Is it even possible for me to have a reliable working after-market turbo system without being an expert?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Please search...I say that with all of the good intentions in the world....There is a ton of info on all of these subjects

Figure 2K for install and tune...and if it's less you can go out to dinner with the change

If you don't want to learn about the FI system...don't install one...you will be extremely sorry. With the additional power comes the need for an increased level of vigilance...and you need to know what to look for

blackenedwings

I have done quite a bit of searching and reading about this subject on this forum, but my biggest question I haven't really found an answer for, which is "is it possible for a non-car expert to successfully add an after-market turbo without blowing his engine to smitherines." It's not that I "don't want to learn about the FI system" its that I'm not an expert, and simply don't trust that I will be able to install it correctly on my own, and certainly not as well as a professional who does it for a living. I definitely understand the increased need for vigilence to watch when A/F ratio drops into lean territory, or temps rise into dangerous areas etc... but a reliable turbo and a professional installer could make the process less a game of Russian Roulette for a beginner to car mods.

It also seems a pretty fair question to ask out of the half-dozen available RX8 turbo kits which people have had good experiences with for reliability (no detonations, blown engines) and ease of use. Granted most of those blown engines are bad tunes (which is why I would want it professionally tuned) but is a Greddy turbo running 7-8 psi going to run the same risk as an Esmeril kit running 9 psi etc ...

robrecht

Where are you located? I think I've seen people pay quite a bit less than $2k but don't remember the details. You're going to want to find a very reputable shop with experience in rotaries so if people know where you are they can give you much better advice.

blackenedwings

I am located near Baltimore, MD. I found a decent Mazdaspeed Mazda location that has been doing my regular checkups, but I don't know if they do aftermarket installs like turbo's etc. Part of my trepidation also is that one of the RX8Club guys here who I met is the only turbo'ed RX8 I've seen in person and he had already grenaded one engine with his Greddy kit. I would be willing to sacrifice some rwhp to ensure my 13B doesn't pop like a grape.

tdiddy

There have been many owners blow engines even when a professional shop installs the turbo kit. Hell, there have been many owners blow engines without turbo kits. If you want to go FI you need to accept the fact that you may blow a motor. If you can accept that fact then the next best way to not blow the motor is with good tuning. Nothing outweighs the tune!!

robrecht

Personally, I would probably not turbo a Renesis based on what I've heard but my 8 is just a fun commuter for me. But even if I wanted to build a track car (which I can't afford until my kids are through college), I would much rather boost a 2-seater. No sense carrying around that back seat. By then, I'm hoping for a 16x 2-seater coupe.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

it is possible, but it will be expensive. you have to pay for the knowledge that you lack..

and if you are not willing to learn the basics, i would skip it all together.. you can miss one little thing, one little sign, and boom. new motor time..

beers

truemagellen

Esmeril Racing does offer installation and tuning service...with reasonable prices. Unfortunately you'd have to send your car to Minnesota or hire one of our engineers to come out, install it, and tune it...which is of course not so reasonable considering the cost of plane tickets these days.

Fanman

I had mine professionally installed & tuned by one of the best tuners in the country & still blew my engine only running 6.5 psi. The turbo kits have gotten quite a bit better & more relible though. You pay to play, & blowing your engine is always the risk you take. I would tell you to also take a look at the Mazdamaniac/BHR turbokit offering. Covers much of the unreliable bits of a standard Greddy kit, not to mention helps with more hp & better reliability.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

IMO if you (specifically and not in the general sense) want to go FI then buy a car that came with it from the auto manufacture. When you install a turbo into a car that did not originally come with it then you better have a good understanding of what is going on or lots of money to give someone for help.

Outkast187

Chances are you can do the install. You will take much more care when installing, the "professionals" typically dont care, and often dont know. Alot have the "i already know so I dont need to learn anything" attitude. Take it to a good shop for tuning though, thats the only real tough part.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

95% of the time, you are the only one keeping an eye on your engine. When you are mostly stock, the ECU is designed to monitor your temps, timing, AFR, etc to protect the engine from the driver. When you do any severe modification of a car that basically requires aftermarket management and may exceed the capacities of some of your systems (ignition, fuel, cooling, oil), you are removing that safety net. If you are running too hot or getting fuel starvation, the stock ECU is not going to be in a position to help you. So, as a driver of a heavily modified car, you have to be aware of these things. Really, if you love your car and can balance a check book, you probably can achieve a level of internal combustion literacy pretty easily. At some point, regardless of install and kit quality, something will go wrong that could potentially blow your engine.

Having said that, I personally paid to have my turbo kit installed and I paid a decent chunk because of the amount of things I wanted done. I'm a mechanical engineer with graduate course work in internal combustion engines, turbo machinery, and automotive sensors and feedback systems who has a brother who is a mechanic and runs a 3 double bay shop. I felt having someone with experience in aftermarket turbo installing on rotary engines was worth it. I use JPR Imports in Blackwood, NJ (South NJ near Philly) so Jim might be an option for you.

I guess it depends on your budget. If you are willing to pay someone everytime something little goes wrong and possibly replace an engine because something little like a coolant temperature sensor went bad, then you can stay hands off. The more reasonable approach is prepare like you are going to do the full install yourself and learn what each component is and what it does. Then, even if you have it installed in a shop, you are knowledgeable enough to ask questions and monitor the engine's performance over time. I'd recommend that you get it professionally tuned. I'd also recommend you tack on some budget for a couple gauges so that you can keep an eye on how the engine is running.

tajabaho1

I think most turbo's come with an installation manual

if it doesn't and you want to custom fab, then better get reading on on turbo's

blackenedwings

Thanks, that was an incredibly helpful reply! I'm definitely looking to get the tuning done by someone with more knowledge than I have. I'm doing as much research as possible, and I plan to check over the install docs for the kits and see if its something that I think I can handle as far as the install. I'm also starting with smaller mods first to raise my confidence in making changes to the car on my own. Also I know there are a few RX8Club guys in the area, and at least one has a turbo installed so I'll see if I can get some local support.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Assuming you are going to run at or under 300 whp (stock ignition, stock fuel system) installation of a turbo kit probably isn't too much more complicated than pulling off your front bump and exhaust maniford/intake and replacing it with the kit components. The only fab type work could be drill and tapping the oil pan for the turbo oil drain. Any electrical components, namely the management if it's external (not Cobb), should have prefabbed wiring harnesses for direct plug in. Basemaps should be good enough to get the car to start and idle with a minimum of tinkering. At that point, though, you should be looking to put the car in the hands of someone who is quite knowledgeable and can tune it.

blackenedwings

Even while its still NA I plan to get a Cobb AP, so that would be the ECM of choice if I turbo it. I have no plans to take it over the 300 whp range, so I'm checking out the install process. I'm more concerned with the tune, as you said, its something that someone who is quite knowledgable should be doing. One thing I've found from a lot of reading is that very few mods make much of a HP difference for the RX8. It's almost like "go FI or go home". I could upgrade the brakes and suspension, but the Shinka has a sport suspension that handles quite nicely and the OEM brakes work great for the car in its NA form. Besides my incoming short shift mod and the Cobb AP, there don't seem to be a lot of mods other than cosmetic that will really make a difference... and while I wouldn't mind a nice carbon fiber hood, I refuse to be "that guy" with a bone stock car driving around with +HP stickers and a new hood.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Also, remember, if your going fast you have to have a suspension that will handle and brakes that will stop you. Make sure you add that into the equation. If you aren't ready for FI, you can start that process now and still enjoy those benefits.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Put me on the mailing list if you intend to come out to the North East.